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  1. #381
    Community Member Cold_Stele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vallen-Mabar View Post
    Side not on the end loot: I have epic merilth chain, so the +10 seeker that gives i see even larger spikes. However i do have to do some armor swapping if i feel my evasion is needed. I may switch out those 2 monk levels for something else, simply because i love my +10 seeker far too much.
    I believe eMar Chain becomes light armor in he new expansion, check the Lamm threads.

  2. #382
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    For this build, should I use light or medium armor?
    The guide itself isn't specific on that point.

  3. #383
    Community Member Dwarfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kingault View Post
    For this build, should I use light or medium armor?
    The guide itself isn't specific on that point.
    Use Marilith Chain or Epic Marilith Chain. Great bonus to shatter/critical hit damage and you still have evasion. The new epic red dragonshide armor/robe may compete with this.

    Btw, love this build. Using it at cap with legendary dreadnaught and its doing great.
    Levistis, Orcys, and Thirzax of the Dragon Blood Cult of Maguuma, GW2.

  4. #384
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    Wouldn't FOTW be better since adrenaline works with manyshot?
    Fighter haste boost -> epic moment (adrenaline every 3 seconds) -> manyshot

  5. #385
    Community Member Vallen-Mabar's Avatar
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    Default Joy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cold_Stele View Post
    I believe eMar Chain becomes light armor in he new expansion, check the Lamm threads.
    It does!!

    I was so ecstatic and first thought it was a bug when i saw my toon evade in my eMerith!

    With the new gear that's in this expac i'll be replacing it soon anyway. Still awesome!


    Playing since '06
    Mabar for life, Darkness is king

  6. #386
    Community Member Limey's Avatar
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    Hi all

    I've been away since Feb 2012 and just bought the new expansion. I have a Helves Angel with both ranger and paladin past lives.

    Is this build still viable and any items, epic destinies, or other stuff I should be shooting for? (All my stuff seems very last season GS etc)

    Thanks for any advice.

  7. #387
    Community Member Vengenance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Limey View Post
    Hi all

    I've been away since Feb 2012 and just bought the new expansion. I have a Helves Angel with both ranger and paladin past lives.

    Is this build still viable and any items, epic destinies, or other stuff I should be shooting for? (All my stuff seems very last season GS etc)

    Thanks for any advice.
    I'm also interested in an answer to this question. I absolutely loved this build before I took a break from the game to play Star Wars then TR'd it to work on completionist but given my limited time to play the game just thinking about capping her again and enjoy end game. My dilema is back to the Helves Angel or go to a Hyrbrid 10K archer. What is the consenus amongst your AA's out there? Personally I like the "in-your-face" melee capabilities of the Helves Angel versus non-stop "pew-pew-pew" of a pure archer build. Does the 10k stars builds offer similar melee DPS as the Helves Angel?
    Charater Names: Jeryle, Jerforged, Gerforged, Raybur, Rayber, Raibur, Marreth, Merreth
    Classes Played: Thief Acrobat, Ftr, Barbarian, Cleric, FVS, Caster, Bard, & Monk
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  8. #388
    Community Member Purkilius's Avatar
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    This build IMO is still very viable I do not have it myself but seen it in action and it is doing really well.

    I like the changes Blank_Zero did to it: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=386083

    Vengenance wb, 10k could offer stunning fist but from what I have seen they have a hard time landing it!

  9. #389
    Community Member Vengenance's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Purkilius View Post
    This build IMO is still very viable I do not have it myself but seen it in action and it is doing really well.

    I like the changes Blank_Zero did to it: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=386083

    Vengenance wb, 10k could offer stunning fist but from what I have seen they have a hard time landing it!
    Thanks for the feedback, gonna look at Zero's build now.
    Charater Names: Jeryle, Jerforged, Gerforged, Raybur, Rayber, Raibur, Marreth, Merreth
    Classes Played: Thief Acrobat, Ftr, Barbarian, Cleric, FVS, Caster, Bard, & Monk
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  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vengenance View Post
    I'm also interested in an answer to this question. I absolutely loved this build before I took a break from the game to play Star Wars then TR'd it to work on completionist but given my limited time to play the game just thinking about capping her again and enjoy end game. My dilema is back to the Helves Angel or go to a Hyrbrid 10K archer. What is the consenus amongst your AA's out there? Personally I like the "in-your-face" melee capabilities of the Helves Angel versus non-stop "pew-pew-pew" of a pure archer build. Does the 10k stars builds offer similar melee DPS as the Helves Angel?
    Well if my pov helps any. I had two level 20 rangers, tr'd one into a 10k monkarcher and the other into a modified helves. They both had similiar gear and when they did the helves smoked the monkarcher out of the water. YMMV of course, but I found 10k monkarcher lacking in so many ways compared to this build.
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  11. #391
    Community Member KoboldKiller's Avatar
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    This looks like a very interesting build.

    I am currently leveling a Helf AA ranged build but wanted to TR to something with more oomph and this looks like the ticket.

    I would wait and run a Pali for past life but I think running one alt to cap and TRing then running to cap again is going to be quite enough redundancy for me.

    I haven't seen anything that indicates needed changes with all of the updates so I assume the build still works well.

    I will be using khopesh as I don't have Heavy Picks.

    I will keep on eye on this thread to see if anything has changed. My AA is only level 11 so I'm in no big hurry.
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  12. #392
    Community Member korsat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Well if my pov helps any. I had two level 20 rangers, tr'd one into a 10k monkarcher and the other into a modified helves. They both had similiar gear and when they did the helves smoked the monkarcher out of the water. YMMV of course, but I found 10k monkarcher lacking in so many ways compared to this build.
    Can you please explain why?

    Comparing halves vs 12monk/6ranger/2fighter like zendark

    The trade off is power surge+haste boost vs 3d6 sneak attack, 12prr, +3 con, +1 crit multuplier, shadow fade, touch of death and earth attacks, 10k stars, improved evasion and leap of faith.

    Melee: moncher has touch of death every 15 sec, monk speed, doublestrike, possibility to stun with 50+ dc, higher base damage 4d6+.

    Ranged: moncher has 10k stars, +1 crit multiplier.

    Cannot see where the halves can be better now that a moncher can twist in haste boost from LD. The only thing a moncher is missing is power surge that is a nice addition for that 1min of dps but it's not enouth to cover the difference imo.

  13. #393
    Community Member jsm123's Avatar
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    Default Very Nice

    I love the range dps. I was actually thinking about this one a while ago when I noticed my brother's monster was doing great damage with manyshot but never did the build. No criticism needed for this build. Seems perfectly planned out.

  14. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by korsat View Post
    Can you please explain why?

    Comparing halves vs 12monk/6ranger/2fighter like zendark

    The trade off is power surge+haste boost vs 3d6 sneak attack, 12prr, +3 con, +1 crit multuplier, shadow fade, touch of death and earth attacks, 10k stars, improved evasion and leap of faith.

    Melee: moncher has touch of death every 15 sec, monk speed, doublestrike, possibility to stun with 50+ dc, higher base damage 4d6+.

    Ranged: moncher has 10k stars, +1 crit multiplier.

    Cannot see where the halves can be better now that a moncher can twist in haste boost from LD. The only thing a moncher is missing is power surge that is a nice addition for that 1min of dps but it's not enouth to cover the difference imo.
    Well excuse me if my previous post sounded a little like I was being condecending towards 10k builds but from my playing both builds I feel the monkarcher looks better on paper then it plays out.

    All the monk goodness (stuns, ToD, shadowfade, etc) means not ranging and using wraps to generate ki. Which is fine, except I found myself melee more then ranged because I needed to generate ki, which made me feel like I was playing a lvl 12 monk instead of a level 20 monk that had the option to do some nice ranged damage.

    In regards to the melee aspect of a monkarcher, the stats are spread to include a 4th stat (Wis) instead of 3 spreading build points out further. Add on to the fact that 10k archers are usually wis based instead of str based. Not really bad on norm/hard content but on elites the monkarchers melee attacks missed more often then I liked. And misses are zero DPS. My numbers at the time they were comparitively geared, my 10k archer was ranging for about 180~ crit while the helves would break 300. I'm not a huge math guy so I'm not sure how to recreate the math.

    So monkarchers spreading stats out, level ups into wis instead of str, missing frequently on elite settings forms my findings that helves is stronger raw DPS. A 10k build is still fun, can be viable with more work/gear, and has more surviability.
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  15. #395
    Community Member korsat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Braegan View Post
    Well excuse me if my previous post sounded a little like I was being condecending towards 10k builds but from my playing both builds I feel the monkarcher looks better on paper then it plays out.

    All the monk goodness (stuns, ToD, shadowfade, etc) means not ranging and using wraps to generate ki. Which is fine, except I found myself melee more then ranged because I needed to generate ki, which made me feel like I was playing a lvl 12 monk instead of a level 20 monk that had the option to do some nice ranged damage.

    In regards to the melee aspect of a monkarcher, the stats are spread to include a 4th stat (Wis) instead of 3 spreading build points out further. Add on to the fact that 10k archers are usually wis based instead of str based. Not really bad on norm/hard content but on elites the monkarchers melee attacks missed more often then I liked. And misses are zero DPS. My numbers at the time they were comparitively geared, my 10k archer was ranging for about 180~ crit while the helves would break 300. I'm not a huge math guy so I'm not sure how to recreate the math.

    So monkarchers spreading stats out, level ups into wis instead of str, missing frequently on elite settings forms my findings that helves is stronger raw DPS. A 10k build is still fun, can be viable with more work/gear, and has more surviability.
    I agree on the fact that without the right gear the to-hit may be a problem on elite content. I use raven sight+shintao/gilvenor set that means +6 to hit... Before that I remember I had spare problems on some red named with PA on.

    Regaridng melee aspect, a moncher with gtwf and pa is not that inferior compared to a normal monk, rams might adds +1 to hit +3 damage and vs favored enemies +4/5 damage covers the difference. Probably vs non-fve is a bit behind yes but then MS comes to help.

    If i remember right my critics with an epic longbow of earth on my moncher are around 250 with x4 crit before any ED. Stats are 34 30 32 12 38 20. With a pinion this number should increase.

    It's all about gears as usual in this game...

  16. #396
    The Hatchery karl_k0ch's Avatar
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    Update 14 changed quite a bit in regards to game mechanics, but still I find this build quite attractive for the khopesh user. For a pure archer, a Monkcher (with 10k stars seems) seems to be the better choice, but this build still has some nice synergies.

    Adapting the build in the OP, here's what I'd do:

    1. R: Point Blank Shot, (Bow Str), (FE: Outsider)
    2. R: (TWF), (Rapid Shot)
    3. R: Weapon Focus: Ranged, (Die Hard)
    4. R: (Precise Shot)
    5. R: (FE: Undead or Elemental)
    6. R: EWP: Khopesh, (ITWF), (Many Shot)
    7. M: Power Attack
    8. M: Toughness, (Evasion)
    9. F: Improved Crit: Slash, PL: Paladin
    10. F: Cleave
    11. F: Great Cleave
    12. F: Mental Toughness, GTWF
    13. F
    14. F: Improved Crit: Ranged
    15. F
    16. F: Improved Precise Shot
    17. F
    18. F: Weapon Focus: Slashing, Weapon Specialization: Slashing
    19. F
    20. F: Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing
    21. Overwhelming Critical
    24. Combat Archery

    Stats as above, just with the level 24 level up in Dex in order to qualify for CA, using a +3 Dex tome.

    In comparison to the build in the OP, this drops Extend and Stunning Blow in favor of Cleave and Great Cleave in order to get access to OC, which has benefits for both styles of fighting. Precision getting granted by Ran 4 allows to fit in Khopeshes as well. If you are eager to get Extend, you can use different weapons than Khopeshes, e.g. Scimmies or Rapiers.

    In comparison to Smrti (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=386083), this aims for the AA racial PrE, whereas smrti's monster gets Tempest 1.

    And, for reference, this is the post from a different thread which made me think about this:
    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Helves Angel lost some of its luster after monkchers showed up, but it's still the go-to example for how to do an AA with blades & bows. Just remember it predates epic levels, so you'll want to tweak it to get base STR 23 DEX 21 by epic levels for Overwhelming Critical & Combat Archery, respectively; OC also req's Cleave & GC.
    Last edited by karl_k0ch; 10-13-2012 at 08:18 AM.
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  17. #397
    Community Member kanbeki's Avatar
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    Since AA no longer requires a bluebar class I have thought about doing a quick sorc life on my archer and then doing a 12fighter/6monk/2ranger 10k variant of this build, thoughts?
    \
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  18. #398
    Community Member korsat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanbeki View Post
    Since AA no longer requires a bluebar class I have thought about doing a quick sorc life on my archer and then doing a 12fighter/6monk/2ranger 10k variant of this build, thoughts?
    you're gonna loose rams might, maybe if you are ok with feats 12fighter/6monk/2druid?but if you're not using wraps you will have BAB penality unless you have the umd for tenser's scrolls...and the will to use them often :|

  19. #399
    Community Member kanbeki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korsat View Post
    you're gonna loose rams might, maybe if you are ok with feats 12fighter/6monk/2druid?but if you're not using wraps you will have BAB penality unless you have the umd for tenser's scrolls...and the will to use them often :|
    I deff would be using wraps and druid 2 offers less than ranger 2 (bow str rapid shot twf) vs (rams might) anyone else have any thoughts?
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  20. #400
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Someone asked me how I would do a (relatively) untwinked first-life 32-pt version of Helves (bearing in mind that a monkcher makes a better full-time archer); hopefully Dark-Star won't mind if I post it here. My build is a lot like karl's, though without the pally PL, obviously; I also don't backload some of the feats as much as he does. I think I squeezed in everything that's necessary. My only disappointments are there's no room for any tactics feats (unless maybe I drop Precision or switch from khops to scimitars) and I couldn't afford as many Toughness enhs as I wanted without reducing burst DPS by sacrificing, e.g., Versatility IV or Extra Action Boost.
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 03.14.02
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 Lawful Neutral Half-Elf Female
    (12 Fighter \ 2 Monk \ 6 Ranger) 
    Hit Points: 311
    Spell Points: 175 
    BAB: 19\19\24\29\29
    Fortitude: 19
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 8
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    27
    Dexterity            18                    21
    Constitution         14                    16
    Intelligence          8                     8
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma              8                     8
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 11
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +3 Tome of Dexterity used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    
    Level 1 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Undead
    Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Rogue
    Feat: (Selected) Point Blank Shot
    
    
    Level 2 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 3 (Monk)
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness
    Feat: (Selected) Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons
    
    
    Level 4 (Monk)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Monk Bonus) Precision
    
    
    Level 5 (Ranger)
    
    
    Level 6 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness
    
    
    Level 7 (Ranger)
    Feat: (Favored Enemy) Favored Enemy: Giant
    
    
    Level 8 (Ranger)
    Ability Raise: STR
    
    
    Level 9 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Ranged Weapons
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 10 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 11 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 12 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Precise Shot
    
    
    Level 13 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 14 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Khopesh
    
    
    Level 16 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 17 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 18 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Selected) Cleave
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Great Cleave
    
    
    Level 19 (Fighter)
    
    
    Level 20 (Fighter)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Extra Action Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
    Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Acid Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Explosive Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Force Burst Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Slaying Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Imbue Terror Arrows
    Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery I
    Enhancement: Kensei Khopesh Mastery II
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I
    Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
    Enhancement: Fighter Khopesh Specialization I
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante I
    Enhancement: Improved Rogue Dilettante II
    Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
    Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility I
    Enhancement: Human Versatility II
    Enhancement: Human Versatility III
    Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
    Enhancement: Way of the Patient Tortoise I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +2 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +3 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +4 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer: Conjure +5 Arrows
    Enhancement: Elven Arcane Archer I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Epic feats: Overwhelming Critical and Combat Archery

    Since this is supposed to be an untwinked build, I tried to keep the tome pre-reqs as modest as possible and delay them as late as possible. The +1 DEX tome is necessary to take IPS @ lvl 12 (DEX base 18 + 1 tome = 19); the +2 STR tome is for Overwhelming Critical at lvl 21 (STR base 16 + 5 lvl-ups + 2 tome = 23); and the +3 DEX tome needs to be taken before lvl 24 for Combat Archery (DEX base 18 + 3 tome = 21). The +2 CON tome is optional, but more HPs is obviously always desirable.

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