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  1. #1
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    Default What is better? +5 full plate or +4 Adamantine Full plate?

    Simple question.

    What is better? +5 full plate or +4 Adamantine Full plate?

    I have tried both and it kinda seems like +5 takes less overall damage but maybe it is in my head. Any DDO math guys care to speculate?

  2. #2
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    Kinda depends on where your AC sits with +5 FP vs the +4 Addy FP. 40 AC seems to be a breakpoint, so if the +4 puts you on the wrong side of 40, the +5 may be better. Now, if you are talking about the Stonemeld Plate from the Dragon raid, then that particular suit of +4 Addy FP is better than +5 FP since it has 5 DR, and not the typical 3 DR of Addy FP.

    This are my opinions only. Your mileage may vary.

  3. #3

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    1 AC is almost always going to be better than 3 DR. Even 5 DR, I'd probably stick with the 1 AC. Especially for clerics, since no hit at all means no concentration check vs a slightly easier concentration check more often.
    Recently completed a very slow Completionist adventure, playing each class until I was bored. My son (Henry) randomly picked the next class from the ones I hadn't done yet.

  4. #4
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    BOTH! Nightforge plate from BAM FTW.

    With 1 AC Difference, You'll get hit 5% of the time more.....

    Lets Take 20 Hits.... Avg Hit 20 Points of Damage = 400 Points of Damage
    WIth +4 You would of been hit 21 Times for 420 Points of Damage LESS DR 3/- which is 63 for net damage of 357 Points.

    Net Benefit <43> Points of damage. For weaker Mobs...

    If the Mobs are hitting you for 40 Points a Pop the Numbers May be differnt.. Let see...

    20x40 = 800 Points of Damage

    21x40 = 840 Points - 63 = 777 Points of Damage....

    Nope, DR is still better.....

    You'd have to be taking over 60points of damage per hit to see the 1 AC over DR 3/-
    Last edited by Impaqt; 03-28-2007 at 07:20 PM.
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    Actually, it's more like 1 point of AC is almost always < 3 points of DR. We won't even talk about 5 points of DR. I loves my Stonemeld Plate, I do I do.
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  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    BOTH! Nightforge plate from BAM FTW.

    With 1 AC Difference, You'll get hit 5% of the time more.....

    Lets Take 20 Hits.... Avg Hit 20 Points of Damage = 400 Points of Damage
    WIth +4 You would of been hit 21 Times for 420 Points of Damage LESS DR 3/- which is 63 for net damage of 357 Points.

    Net Benefit <43> Points of damage.
    It's not always that simple though. As Blazer mentioned, if you're near a threshold, the AC can make a very large difference.

    For example, fighting something that needs to roll a 19 to hit you and does that 20 damage. The DR makes that 10% chance of taking 17, or 1.7 per swing. The higher AC makes that 5% chance of taking 20 damage, or 1 per swing.

    I made a chart at work a while back - I can compare things tomorrow more accurately if you have more details about your specific character.

    Edit: for the time being, let's guess that your AC is around 40. One of the main thresholds has been 45 (+25ish), so let's say things hit you on around a 15 with the +4, and a 16 with the +5. .3 * 17 = 5.1 per swing. .25 * 20 = 5 per swing. On elite, this swings more towards the DR with that "low" of an AC since the thresholds go up. As you approach the higher ACs, AC has more value until you reach the big targets.

    Edit2: also, higher damage per hit I believe swings things in favor of the AC as well, whereas lower damage per hit swings it in the direction of DR.
    Last edited by vyvy3369; 03-28-2007 at 07:37 PM.
    Recently completed a very slow Completionist adventure, playing each class until I was bored. My son (Henry) randomly picked the next class from the ones I hadn't done yet.

  7. #7
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    This ia D20 System. Each 1 point of To-Hit, AC, and DC equates to 5%. THe ONLY acception to this is when you have reached plateu's where you are hitting on a 2, Or getting Hit ONLY on a 20.....
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  8. #8

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    Exactly...but that 5% change either way can mean a drastic change in the amount of damage you take. It all depends on where you are in respect to the enemy's to-hit, your AC and how much damage they deal on each swing.

    The best way to compare seems to be to take averages, since you never know how the dice are actually going to come out. They could roll 4 15s in a row one fight, making that DR3 really bad one time, or roll 5 16s the next time making that DR better.
    Recently completed a very slow Completionist adventure, playing each class until I was bored. My son (Henry) randomly picked the next class from the ones I hadn't done yet.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by vyvy3369 View Post
    It's not always that simple though. As Blazer mentioned, if you're near a threshold, the AC can make a very large difference.
    Okay, yeah. I fell into the top-tier content groupthink mode again.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Longinus View Post
    Okay, yeah. I fell into the top-tier content groupthink mode again.
    Yeah, if you're talking tanking elite things, your average cleric can probably just throw AC out the window :P. I remember one cleric on our server who ran around in robes and it didn't really make any difference to him.
    Recently completed a very slow Completionist adventure, playing each class until I was bored. My son (Henry) randomly picked the next class from the ones I hadn't done yet.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Castorr View Post
    Simple question.

    What is better? +5 full plate or +4 Adamantine Full plate?

    I have tried both and it kinda seems like +5 takes less overall damage but maybe it is in my head. Any DDO math guys care to speculate?
    It depends on your play style. If you mostly run quests on normal I would say stick to the AC. If you find yourself most of the time running stuff on elite I would wear the adamantine. On high level elite quests that +1 AC means nothing. Your AC is already not high enough to avoid the attacks of the baddies. So considering you will probably get hit anyway, I'd go with the DR. At least the DR is a sure thing. Also as previously mentioned do some ore runs in the Black Anvil Mines. For 15 ore you can purchase a suit of +5 Adamantine armor, then the problem is really solved.
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  12. #12
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    DR is pretty straightforward. It only helps when you get hit. If you're getting hit all the time it might be worth it. If not, then you probably won't notice much difference.

    I figure if my AC's 40+ self buffed I'd go with more AC. If it's less I might start to lean towards some DR. That's purely subjective based on personal experience.

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    Now my clerics choice is between +5 and +3 Adamantine (as well as some Deathblock for special circumstance).

    On low end quests, the extra AC is how I go, since the AC delta (factored in with party buffs from Paly. Rangers, Bards, etc) might push the AC up to the point of the general mobs needing very high number to even hit, thus decreasing the rate of damage taken significantly.

    For mid level quests, it depends on the type of mobs being faced. Lots of low damage outputs, I use the Adamantine, since clipping 3 from every hit adds up and changing from being hit 35% to 45% of the time probably is a wash and it feels better to take smaller chunks of hurt.

    In higher end quests or versus bosses AC is probably more important due to the magnitude of the damage being dealt. Clipping off 3 points from 30 point hits is a 10% reduction, but unless I am getting autohit with both AC's the avoidance of those extra hits seems more important.

    The problem is, there is no one answer given the options you have available. Carry both, and swap as seems appropriate. I know I pop on the Deathblock whenever certain foes are lurking nearby.

    I recently got some +3 FP mod fortification and will be thinking about how that stacks up. The one thing Clerics fear are criticals taking you down and the Fort on the Armor frees up another slot (usually Belt).
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    Very situational, if there are many mobs flying around and you expect to be hit multiple times for lower amounts then go addy. If there is a big baddy that has the chance of curb stomping you within 1-2 hits then go fp +5 as the 3 dr will not mean a thing. Keep both and swap as needed. If its high end content you might as well be wearing the addy as your AC means little anyway unless you can reach the 40's.

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    I feel order of importance for clerics, given the context of this discussion, should look something like this:

    1. Heavy Fort - if you can't land an item somewhere else (ring, belt, shield, armor), then stick with the necklace from BAM; personally I wouldn't use a set of +1 FP of Heavy Fort, just because that is a 4 AC difference; that's a bit much for me to justify; getting critted sucks; dead clerics can't do much for a party.
    2. DR - Stonemeld Plate here please for the DR 5. BAM plate if you have the Heavy Fort elsewhere, sure. Personally however, I'll take 5 DR over 1 AC. Combined with no crits, a rampaging Ogre or Troll whacks you 3 times, each for 20-25 points (since no crits, no huge numbers here); now those #s are more like 15-20. Good stuff. Wiz King or Chains and all those archers - those arrows are around 10pts of pierce damage. Assuming you've got fire resist up and are using Stonemeld, those are now 5pts pierce from arrows. 50% reduction - nice.
    3. HP - please clerics everywhere, stop using CON as a dump stat. If I PUG with another Drow cleric who has barely crossed the 120 HP mark, I very well may scream.
    4. AC - you can easily break 35 AC on a cleric; if you do it right, you can break 40, which is pretty nice. Should you run with a pally and ranger, you can possibly break 50, but I wouldn't count on that all the time.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rite View Post
    Very situational, if there are many mobs flying around and you expect to be hit multiple times for lower amounts then go addy. If there is a big baddy that has the chance of curb stomping you within 1-2 hits then go fp +5 as the 3 dr will not mean a thing. Keep both and swap as needed. If its high end content you might as well be wearing the addy as your AC means little anyway unless you can reach the 40's.
    If you have the chance of getting "curb stomped", then the 1 AC won't matter, UNLESS you are at a threshold. 3 or 5 DR > 1 AC in most cases.

  17. #17
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    Are there a Lot of 40+AC Clerics Running around?
    10
    13 +5 Full Plate
    1 Dex Bonus (Most clerics should be able to hit a 12 dex
    9 +5 Tower Sheild (If you can live with the penaties, If your a Healbot, theres no reason not to use one)
    5 Shield of Faith(THis will Exceed all other deflection items)
    3 Barkskin pot
    --------
    41
    So with +4 Adamantine, You could get to 40 Still easlily.
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  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    9 +5 Tower Sheild (If you can live with the penaties, If your a Healbot, theres no reason not to use one)
    Balance checks are already a bane of my cleric's existence. Having an even worse armor check penalty will be highly unadviseable soon - a 20 won't be a success on balance anymore soon.

    Edit: also, Shield of Faith is currently +4. +2 base, +1 per 6 caster levels. It'll be +5 at level 18.
    Recently completed a very slow Completionist adventure, playing each class until I was bored. My son (Henry) randomly picked the next class from the ones I hadn't done yet.

  19. #19
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    THere are very few instances where balance is a major concern for a pure healbot cleric.... And it whould be reasonable to swap out to a diferent sheild in those situations.

    But if you wana negate that, and with the correction to SOF, theres no way to get to 40 either way without relying on outside influences.... Maybe Chas Guards.... Chattering Ring.....
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Impaqt View Post
    Are there a Lot of 40+AC Clerics Running around?
    10
    13 +5 Full Plate - Got this
    1 Dex Bonus (Most clerics should be able to hit a 12 dex - Got this
    9 +5 Tower Sheild (If you can live with the penaties, If your a Healbot, theres no reason not to use one) - Even took the feat
    5 Shield of Faith(THis will Exceed all other deflection items) Yup
    3 Barkskin pot Ranger Friends even better
    --------
    41
    So with +4 Adamantine, You could get to 40 Still easlily.
    Don't forget friendly Paladins and the like as well

    Which is one on some quests, I CAN tank a bit. Drop a few cursespewer shots or destruction hits and the teams whole job goes easier.
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