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  1. #1
    Community Member arminius's Avatar
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    Default How do you feel about the SR Enhancements now?

    I have a 9/1 Drow Paladin/Fighter who appears to be pretty well nerfed since the enhancement change (to hit= whiff, whiff, whiff). I was in the process of trying to rearrange my first enhancement choices to try to compensate for this.

    So I was wondering what others thought about the Drow Spell Resistance enhancement line now that the current max is 18. Do you think it is worth investing the points in anymore? It would seem to me from my experience that at higher levels SR18 is worth nothing at all. Has that been your experience? Do you think SR requirements to survive vs mobs have been lowered?

    Pulling back those SR enhancement points allows more room for action boosts and such that might help to solve the whiff whiff whiff problem. However I am a big fan of racial enhancements generally, and don't want to just chuck SR if it will still do some good.

    Please advise....
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  2. #2
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    Drow SR was just plain INSANE before...while I despise the thought of having to "pay" for something that should be racially inherent. Drow are just overpowered compared to even the 32 point builds, I'm sick of seeing every other character in a party being a drow...honestly how often do you even see a normal elf anymore, I swear they're becoming extinct.

  3. #3
    Community Member Sokar's Avatar
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    I hate that we have to pay for something that should be enherent in the race. Makes absolutely not sense to me. The thing is, Drow is a special race that you have to "unlock" to gain access too. They SHOULD be stronger then other races. I can't wait for the NEXT over powered "unlockable" race (Dark Dwarves anyone?). So, no, I'm not happy about it at all. However, I do like everything else.

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  4. #4
    DDO Catalog MrCow's Avatar
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    Nah, the next player race they would give us would be something like Kobold. That way we could have little weak yarkers scampering all around us as they yark out complaints of being unable to carry 20+ weapons with a starting STR of 4.
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  5. #5
    Hatchery Founder Ganak's Avatar
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    Has any one seen any official word on the 4th SR enhancement for Drow?

    I suspect level 14 for 4 points for a total of SR 21.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakylpops View Post
    Drow SR was just plain INSANE before...while I despise the thought of having to "pay" for something that should be racially inherent. Drow are just overpowered compared to even the 32 point builds, I'm sick of seeing every other character in a party being a drow...honestly how often do you even see a normal elf anymore, I swear they're becoming extinct.
    Not to be total off topic but I just made a new elf cleric and having a blast with him love the undying court enhancment and a once a 20 minute rez at 6th level has been handy.


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  7. #7
    Community Member AEschyl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakylpops View Post
    Drow SR was just plain INSANE before...while I despise the thought of having to "pay" for something that should be racially inherent. Drow are just overpowered compared to even the 32 point builds, I'm sick of seeing every other character in a party being a drow...honestly how often do you even see a normal elf anymore, I swear they're becoming extinct.
    drow are far from overpowered compared to all other 32pt builds

    the only thing that drow greatly beneifts are: sorc, wiz, bard, dex-builds (which yes, is a lot of the preferred characters nowadays)

    and even then there are other races that are better/comprable to drow

    Sorc: Human (extra feat is nice for a sorc, human cha 1 makes up for 1pt of lost charisma compared to drow)

    Wizard: Human (See above, but for int.)

    Bard: Human (See above, plus a bard doesn't NEED a high charisma especially if they are going melee-based)

    Dex-Based: Elf (Great for non-finesse twf and such due to racial bonuses to longsword)


    and on top of that, you get to choose where your extra points go. If you want a Human Sorc, you only take a 1 charisma hit, and you dont have to put 2 points into dex/int, and you dont have to have such a low con


    really, it's all apples and oranges

    the only reason i made MY main character a drow is because i wanted dex AND charisma bumps.. and con was my dump stat anyways. (Ranger/Paladin, and soon monk)
    Last edited by AEschyl; 08-11-2007 at 09:50 AM.
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  8. #8
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    SR sucks. Actually, let me rephrase that. The enhancement for sr sucks because you can easily find an sr 19 item that saves you what....6 action points? Plus, if you are a cleric, you can cast sr for sr 22.

  9. #9
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    SR18 is USeless in High End content.

    Pick up a SR 19 item for running low level Favor.....
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  10. #10
    DDO Catalog MrCow's Avatar
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    Or you can look around for a Scarab of Protection. SR 20, no ML, fun times with the kobold shaman trying to curse me.
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  11. #11
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    It's gotten to the point in the game that they might as well remove these enhancements from the game. Anything less than a cleric's casting or SR, or what should be a drows FULL inherent SR, are pointless to have endgame. SR 18, 19, 20 = useless

  12. #12
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    I had my drow pally since the day drow were released... back then sr as a enhancement was overshadowed by the fact that you were only allowed 4 enhancements anyway... SR even in PnP was nothing spetacular either so I never ever even thought of building a drow because of it's SR... not to mention back then a fragment of the silver flame went a long long way - before they fixed it.

    Coming back to drow... outside the flakey racial enhancement system - yes I said flakey (never seen such and unbalanced character creation system in any DnD campaign...) Drow are good for any character build where CHA, DEX or INT are prime or even secondary attirbutes - they come out to an 80 point equal to a 32 point build in these areas, If you strip away the racial enhancement system and attempt for a well balanced DnD character.

    Stepping back, TSR had DnD pegged the best, after 3.0 and 3.5 rules came out where the flood gates openned on multi-classes and class race restrictions they basically pigeon-holed races into classes for the players rather than being more flexible... then comes turbine in with enhancements to boot on mod 4 and cemented this even moreso... thus we end up with a ton of Dwarven and WF melee and a ton of Drow casters. Not really perpetuating a favored class (where they're supose to favor a class) but creating an optimal race for class. Those are two different things.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrCow View Post
    Nah, the next player race they would give us would be something like Kobold. That way we could have little weak yarkers scampering all around us as they yark out complaints of being unable to carry 20+ weapons with a starting STR of 4.
    LOL

  14. #14
    The Hatchery sirgog's Avatar
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    SR 22 is a good baseline for Mod 5 endgame. Anything less than this is of negligible benefit, 22+ and you start noticing some enemy spells failing.
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  15. #15
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    Default sr is worthless atm

    With such a low cap, the average lvl 16 drow will still be depending on a cleric for thier SR spell for any chance of protection from magic, which is so lame. I dont waste any points in it, it largely is only effective in the first couple of levels then casters levels start to be higher then your own by more and more, especially bosses. In PnP drow make the ultimate caster killers for a reason but apparenly here only make sub par anything, I know bloody dwarves who are better wizards and sorcerers and rogues. So some one tell me when will drow get some love and not be hated on for being black

  16. #16
    Community Member KatellaZeyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karavek View Post
    With such a low cap, the average lvl 16 drow will still be depending on a cleric for thier SR spell for any chance of protection from magic, which is so lame. I dont waste any points in it, it largely is only effective in the first couple of levels then casters levels start to be higher then your own by more and more, especially bosses. In PnP drow make the ultimate caster killers for a reason but apparenly here only make sub par anything, I know bloody dwarves who are better wizards and sorcerers and rogues. So some one tell me when will drow get some love and not be hated on for being black
    How would a dwarf make a better wizard, sorcerer, or rogue? Player skill is irrelevant to determining which race does something better, and unless you're going for some kind of brute force thug (which would likely be multiclassed Fighter anyway), rogue is going to be highly dependant on dex, int, and cha for most of what they do. A Sorcerer is going to want that 4 cha that a dwarf loses over a drow, and a wizard is going to benefit more from +2 dex and +2 int than +4 con. Ain't saying I wouldn't party with a dwarf wiz, sorkie, or rogue, but the only way one would be superior to a drow wiz, sorkie, or rogue is if the player of the dwarf was better than the player of the drow, and that ain't got nothing to do with race.
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  17. #17
    Community Member wolfy42's Avatar
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    How would a dwarf make a better wizard sorc or rouge?

    Well first off a dwarf has way more hp then a drow which can be a big advantage. Between +4 to con (at lvl 16 thats 32 more hp right there naturally) and dwarven toughness added in as well you can almost double a wizards base hp at max lvl by choosing to be a dwarf.

    A bonus to saving throws is much better then SR right now....especially since it stacks with other items and Drow SR does not.

    Strength based TWF builds (especialy using axes) can work very well as a dwarf and you can still hit your required dex for GTWF fairly well with a +2 dex tome. Even if you go with 2 Khopeshs you still can end up better off with a dwarf. Dwarves also have better options for thrown weapons then a drow while getting a bonus to damage and hit.

    Early game Dwarves get a nice AC boost that a drow does not get and dwarves get tacticle boosts that make stunning blow hit more often (Great for rogue builds or bard builds as well).

    Drow get a bonus to stats true, but there are many rogue and even wizard/sorc builds that don't require very high dex, int or cha.

    Battle/buff type wizards/sorcs and bards all can get by with lower scores in their primary stats and often want a high strength...something drow does not help with.

    Dwarven rogues have more hp, more AC (+dex bonus in armor) and better DC for stunning blow then drow rogues. While the drow rogue may have 2 more dex, int AND cha all which may help a rogue. If the rogue goes strength build then a 17 dex is all that is required and you can get most of that from rogue level bonus. Yes drow can reach that easier, but if your gonna be in melee your saving 4 points from your con...at the cost of 3 points (to meet the requirement) spent on dex (15 dex for a drow is 5 points and 15 dex for a dwarf is 8).

    The above of course is not even considering a 32 point dwarf. When you factor in the 4 extra points you get as a 32 point dwarf unless your going for extreme stats in dex, int or cha early on you come out ahead over all as a dwarf every time.

    Dwarven rogue/fighter/wizard for instance with 32 point build to start:

    Str 18 (+1 from lvl 2 fighter) cost 16
    Dex 15 (+2 from rogue lvls and eventually +2 from tome for GTWF) cost 8
    Con 12 cost 2
    int 14 (+2 from tome first lvl) cost 6
    Wis 08 cost 0
    Cha 6 (hurts umd but oh well) cost 0

    Low cha...true, but you have a high enough Dex for GTWF, fairly low con but your dwarven toughness compensates, good enough int to keep skills up and not need to use a +int item to cast your wizard spells.

    Drow build on the other hand going for the same type of setup

    Str 18 (16 points)
    Dex 14 (4 points ...this low because of drow bonus to dex)
    Con 10 4 points
    Int 14 4 points
    wis 08
    cha 10

    You have to either take a lower con or int to have the strength and dex eventually (enough dex for GTWF and high strength for dmg and too hit). If you don't take Khopesh the dwarf gets a much better advantage as well (Especially if you do still grab the oversided TWF feat for 2 dwarven waraxes).

    So yeah basically if the rogue, wizard or sorc isn't dex based or maximizing int/cha the dwarf is better.

  18. #18
    Community Member KatellaZeyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfy42 View Post
    How would a dwarf make a better wizard sorc or rouge?

    Well first off a dwarf has way more hp then a drow which can be a big advantage. Between +4 to con (at lvl 16 thats 32 more hp right there naturally) and dwarven toughness added in as well you can almost double a wizards base hp at max lvl by choosing to be a dwarf.

    A bonus to saving throws is much better then SR right now....especially since it stacks with other items and Drow SR does not.

    Strength based TWF builds (especialy using axes) can work very well as a dwarf and you can still hit your required dex for GTWF fairly well with a +2 dex tome. Even if you go with 2 Khopeshs you still can end up better off with a dwarf. Dwarves also have better options for thrown weapons then a drow while getting a bonus to damage and hit.

    Early game Dwarves get a nice AC boost that a drow does not get and dwarves get tacticle boosts that make stunning blow hit more often (Great for rogue builds or bard builds as well).

    Drow get a bonus to stats true, but there are many rogue and even wizard/sorc builds that don't require very high dex, int or cha.

    Battle/buff type wizards/sorcs and bards all can get by with lower scores in their primary stats and often want a high strength...something drow does not help with.

    Dwarven rogues have more hp, more AC (+dex bonus in armor) and better DC for stunning blow then drow rogues. While the drow rogue may have 2 more dex, int AND cha all which may help a rogue. If the rogue goes strength build then a 17 dex is all that is required and you can get most of that from rogue level bonus. Yes drow can reach that easier, but if your gonna be in melee your saving 4 points from your con...at the cost of 3 points (to meet the requirement) spent on dex (15 dex for a drow is 5 points and 15 dex for a dwarf is 8).

    The above of course is not even considering a 32 point dwarf. When you factor in the 4 extra points you get as a 32 point dwarf unless your going for extreme stats in dex, int or cha early on you come out ahead over all as a dwarf every time.

    Dwarven rogue/fighter/wizard for instance with 32 point build to start:

    Str 18 (+1 from lvl 2 fighter) cost 16
    Dex 15 (+2 from rogue lvls and eventually +2 from tome for GTWF) cost 8
    Con 12 cost 2
    int 14 (+2 from tome first lvl) cost 6
    Wis 08 cost 0
    Cha 6 (hurts umd but oh well) cost 0

    Low cha...true, but you have a high enough Dex for GTWF, fairly low con but your dwarven toughness compensates, good enough int to keep skills up and not need to use a +int item to cast your wizard spells.

    Drow build on the other hand going for the same type of setup

    Str 18 (16 points)
    Dex 14 (4 points ...this low because of drow bonus to dex)
    Con 10 4 points
    Int 14 4 points
    wis 08
    cha 10

    You have to either take a lower con or int to have the strength and dex eventually (enough dex for GTWF and high strength for dmg and too hit). If you don't take Khopesh the dwarf gets a much better advantage as well (Especially if you do still grab the oversided TWF feat for 2 dwarven waraxes).

    So yeah basically if the rogue, wizard or sorc isn't dex based or maximizing int/cha the dwarf is better.
    In other words, Dwarf sucks at rogue, wizard, and sorkie compared to a Drow and has to go with builds that do something entirely different than the actual purpose of the class in order to make it worth being a Dwarf.

    Telling how a Dwarf Rogue/Fighter/Wizard works better than a Drow of the same is ********, since it has nothing to do with being a Dwarf Rogue, Dwarf Wizard, or Dwarf Sorcerer.

    If you're going Pure Wiz or Pure Sorc, you're going to want your int (or cha) at its highest, with dex and/or con next on the list. Con is overrated for a Wizard, period. Concentration can be augmented plenty in other ways, as can HP. If a Wizard is in a position where they *need* the extra con that being dwarf over drow would give'em, they're doing something wrong.

    For Pure Rogue, I believe I already said Dwarf can be "better" if you're going the thug route, which is rarely a pure rogue in the first place, since it generally is a fighter/rogue. Anyone going Pure Rogue is almost definitley going to be planning on maximizing their trapmonkeying and let sneak attack do most of their damage. Dex and Int are key to that. As for cha, either type of Rogue is likely gonna want to make good use of UMD. and is severely hurting herself if she doesn't.

    The only class where high CON is truly necessary is Barbarian since it affects Rage Duration, and even that can be easily augmented. I'm playing a lv3 Drow Barbarian. She's got 18 str, 14 dex, 14 con (+1 enhancement), 10 int, 8 wis, 10 cha. While Raging, shes got 24 str and 19 con, 26 and 21 if I use my ring of rage, too. Her crits with gaxe are already doing 50+ damage. The only difference between her and a Dwarf is the Dwarf could rage 6 seconds longer (12 seconds longer with full Extend Rage Enhancements, which aren't available at the level my barbie's at). At least on Barbarian and Fighter, the Dwarven Axe proficiency actually matters.

    There is no game mechanics reason to go dwarf over drow for wizard or sorcerer, or any rogue who actually excells at stealth/trapmonkey.
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  19. #19
    Community Member Sandmek's Avatar
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    Talking heheh

    Originally Posted by MrCow
    Nah, the next player race they would give us would be something like Kobold. That way we could have little weak yarkers scampering all around us as they yark out complaints of being unable to carry 20+ weapons with a starting STR of 4

    LOL god i could only hope so hehe, i rather run one of those that *suprised gasp* a halforc *eyes rolling*
    no i m not fanning the kolbold, i m try'in to kill him, hush up you....!!


  20. #20
    Community Member Nevthial's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevthial View Post
    I wish Drow had traditional SR : 11+ class level, without using any enhancements.
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