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  1. #21
    Community Member Ghaldar's Avatar
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    Default Tanks Vs the door

    This whole thread is a classic example of the biggest problem with DDO: The "cookie cutter effect" AKA the PUG attitude that there is ONE way to do something. You do not meet the criteria or your play style is not to the PUG universal standard....then FU!....(note: of course there are some standards of play that are universaly held as proper manners etc. and I am not refering to those)

    This attitude is what makes PUGS no fun...
    drum roll........

    DDO is based off PnP.
    What is D&D especially in the lastest 3.5 and this setting about?

    Options. I forget which book I was reading....but it had articles from the guys who took D&D over to WoC and talked about the OGL etc. Had a forward by vin diseasl but what ever. The designers are quoted in the book about this point. D&D gives players freedom to use vast options to accomplish the task. That is what makes the game fun is that there are alot of differnt ways to accomplish the same task. Different builds, different group make ups etc. DDO has tried to capture the spirit of that and it saddens me when players just do not realize that they need/have to/should adapt to the changing of groups etc.

    The point I am trying to make is that this game is built around the premise that there is no one way to do things. "No right" nor is there a "wrong". It is all shades of grey and opinion. Whilest it is fun to argue/discuss the best way to skin a Kobold at the pub, the simple fact that there is no one way is an absolute truth. So why fight about it? Why rip on people about it? The sooner folks buy into this reality the better. The sooner this happens the better. The sooner the negative comments and attitudes prevelant on this forum and in the PUG universe is changed the better. Course that is but a dream....so cheers and pass the skinned Kobald...
    Last edited by Ghaldar; 12-14-2006 at 01:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rabbi_Hordo View Post
    Gornn 1:39:12 And she caught him by his garment, saying, Lie with me: and he left his garment in her hand...
    Quote Originally Posted by NYYFan View Post
    All the spouses of DDO players got together and launched a coordinated distributed denial-of-service attack...

  2. #22
    Community Member Lune's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CrusherMcGee View Post
    On elite, Kobold Shamans cast Lightning Bolt, a spell which hits everything in a straight line and can do 30+ damage/target if not saved against. If you're facing a group of kobolds, and there's even a single shaman in there, blocking the door is going to get you wiped very quickly.
    Yup. I think, again, better communication within the group could have made this clearer. Perhaps the tanks felt zerging the casters was the best chance to avoid everyone getting electrifried, but they probably should have mentioned it.

  3. #23
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    Default

    Tanks in SWG?
    Riedra

    Crimson Guard

    Miplo Bierdieb Human 12 Cleric
    Kable Bierdieb Human 8 Sorcerer

  4. #24
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    Default

    Yeah, the OP has it wrong.

    On elite quests, you zerg the casters. Your casters may die. CC does little, because they always save (esp. kobolds vs. web and niacs). All you got is hypnotism and/or hypnotic pattern. These are harder for melees to optimally use. Nuking does little, because their HPs are beefed up.

    Standing in doorway = party wipe. Zerging casters = caster wipe.
    Hence, it is not much fun to do quests on elite as a caster. All you are is a buff monkey (which at <4th level, you can't even do that).

  5. #25
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    Default another thought

    bonebite elite kobold shamen cast blind and hold, light bolt-- ur shield wall doesnt do well if it stood there til it was blind held and dead

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by maloriq View Post
    Yeah, the OP has it wrong.

    On elite quests, you zerg the casters. Your casters may die. CC does little, because they always save (esp. kobolds vs. web and niacs). All you got is hypnotism and/or hypnotic pattern. These are harder for melees to optimally use. Nuking does little, because their HPs are beefed up.

    Standing in doorway = party wipe. Zerging casters = caster wipe.
    Hence, it is not much fun to do quests on elite as a caster. All you are is a buff monkey (which at <4th level, you can't even do that).
    *puts finger on nose*

    My 7th Caster (2nd incarnation) took Heighten and Extend as her bonus metamagic feats. You will get a lot more damage done to mobs, and a lot less done to you if a haste is cast instead of fireball. A heightened hypnotize works up until the end game. There are times to burst damage, to be sure, but WW is not one of them.

  7. #27
    Founder ObsidianCrow's Avatar
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    Default Surprise

    It still amazes me on these forums to see people jump in head first before actually thinking about what they are psoting in reply to others posts. First thing most people do is try to poke holes in the OP's post. OP was pointing out a FACT that many melee types do not use tactics. Did I just say "all"? No. But your run of the mill melee type is a sp sponge. OP was not saying it was the only strategy. He was not saying that he does not use CC. He wasn't even saying that shield walls work all the time.
    I personally think that the people that are getting their hackles up are the ones that probably have caused casters to die due to over zealous charging into battle. This game was never meant to be a one man show. It has been and will always be a game that encourages team work. Op is not trying to dictate how you melee masters should play. He is asking that you have a little consideration and develope some maturity to work with others.
    For me personally I am always impressed when the melee types actually use tactics, like doorways, ridges and terrain to mitigate the damage they otherwise might take. It is actualy not a common thing to see pug's allowing ranged types to ply their trade without having Dilbert Dumbum racing forward so he can get the highest kill count. I encourage melee types to use their heads for something other than a helmet stand and work with the caster to help conserve sp. If a caster doesn't NEED to cc that is even better. Saved sp's mean that in case the troll dung hits the blade barrier there will actually be someone who can get control of the situation by use of well placed cc spells or empowered/maximized spells.

    MAIN point gang. Quite being so obnoxious. Offer up some suggestion in a positive manner and listen to what your team mates have to say, even if it is a pug group.
    Last edited by ObsidianCrow; 12-26-2006 at 07:26 AM. Reason: spelling
    "Strange things are afoot at the Circle K."

  8. #28
    Community Member Therigar's Avatar
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    I am far from an expert on this game. Therigar, my main character, is a level 11 fighter and there is plenty I have done wrong with him in build and in play.

    One of the things I have had to do, because I play in off-peak hours, is depend almost always on PUGs. I have learned to adapt.

    I admit that my favorite trap-finding technique is to rush forward until the trap is sprung and hope I live through it. Then I scream for healing, sucking up all the cleric's mana (or draining his CSW wand)!

    My principle alt is Yucheng. He is a rogue with 2 levels of ranger tossed in. I get to stand back and watch other tanks do the Therigar thing while I scream, "Trap, trap, trap!"

    So, I'm among the first to admit that we fighter types are not always smart about things.

    OTOH, I've found that it is often better -- especially if you cannot pull small groups to you -- to charge headlong into a melee and to fight through to the other side IF there are enemy casters who can target your group. It seems that the AI never mistargets and when the high-level spells go off they are a real pain in the.... Well, you get the idea.

    From a fighter's POV the most useful friendly casters deal in crowd control and buffs. There are only a few quests up through level 8 or so that really need a caster to do more than that. But, I'll be the first to admit that when they are needed the offensive power of casters is really appreciated.

    Bottom line is this -- in every group there are roles to play. I do better when I remember that there is a rogue in the party and I don't try to find traps by charging forward. I do better when I remember that charging the mob isn't always as good as pulling it to you. I do better when the casters keep me barkskinned and good hoped and -- well you get the idea here too. And, I do better when I remember that some creatures need to be PK'd because they are just too tough for me to take on.

    So, when in PUGs the most important thing is to work together and take it just a little slower so that everyone can remember that things go easier if you cooperate and plan ahead.

    See you in game,

    Therigar

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