Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 257
  1. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    - RIP ES Lock and PM Walkers. Anything that does aura damage is going to keep you from being able to use Opening. Also get ready to curse out your hirelings a bunch too I bet. REALLY think the threshold should be 90% like on First Blood, not a hard 100%
    As it goes, Opening uses some new scripting that is pretty forgiving; as long as you hit the enemy with Opening within 1 second of them leaving 100% hitpoints (even if they're at 1% remaining at the time you hit them), it'll still deal the extra damage.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  2. #22
    Community Member Baahb3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    1,363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    Thoughts after playtesting:
    Thanks for testing and a good write up of your experience.

    Kind of what I was expecting after reading this.

    Questions: How was the tumble mechanic? Was it a pain to manage with the AF stacks?
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. -Seneca the Elder
    Iryklaunavan, Karaskkesir, Desideratum, Gregorii, Jhasmyne, Vis
    Ubique eo, invenio me esse ducem hominium.

  3. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by droid327 View Post
    - The range on Mark feels too low, I practically have to be in mob aggro range, which keeps me from being able to tactically select my target first.

    - It'd be nice if Mark didnt work without LOS. Had a few times where I didnt have LOS and I wasted my Opening and Corner. Normally I'd just shoot once to make sure I could hit, and then hit my special attacks...but you cant do that with Opening
    Fair, on the range. I'll look at increasing it.

    Mark should be enforcing Line of Sight to work right now, but that may not be the same parameters as arrow-targeting line of sight (or may not be actually enforcing it at all). I'll take a look.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  4. #24
    Community Member Thar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,090

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Just to get it right out of the gate: We do not have plans to let you stack Archer's Focus while moving. That could change, but we don't intend for it to at this time, and it definitely won't for U50 or in Horizon Walker.

    As you noted, Horizon Walker adds some bonuses to help you gain stacks faster when you do stand still; the mobility tools in here help optimize your ability to maneuver between those standing bonuses. (Or just in general, if you're not utilizing Archer's Focus in general.) You are no longer required to tumble to get anything in this tree; the only bonus tied to it can now alternately be obtained by Misty Stepping.

    We understand that the playstyle of standing still isn't everyone's cup of tea. That's fine; you don't have to use Archer's Focus. You won't optimize power if you do, but that's the intended tradeoff here. Horizon Walker helps you optimize that faster, and move better when you do move.
    if you stand still as an archer you die. you can't face tank mobs and you can't dodge other archers that way. how is that fun? The only time you can do this is if you have a tank. Since few tanks run quests as they can't kill anything, this is likely a raid or high reaper only build option. I leveled my tank as dps and then LR into a tank build when done...
    Member of "Guild of the Black Dragons" & "Swords of the Light" on Sarlona. Proud "Last" member of Caffeine - we aint stragicially savy.
    Kilthar-Tharr-Delkanthalus-Carissa-Mirasina-Ktara-Imara-Thistle-Tharissa-Robothar-Minithar-Miriella-Tharnessa-Tharisa

  5. #25
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,654

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    [*]For a 20 Ranger, this adds a minimum of +12 to weapon damage (before crits and such), possibly more if you've obtained other Favored Enemies from this tree or elsewhere.
    [/LIST]
    But if you are not a ranger, and are therefore unlikely to have many buffs to favoured enemy, then it's a power downgrade (even when attacking the marked target) - and this is a UT, not a ranger tree. Rangers already have AA and DWS, I'm not sure they want to spend 41 APs in this tree to get this, when they have a lot of stuff in the 2 ranger trees..

    It's also tied to marking and only to a marked target. The previous ranged power and doubleshot were not so tied.
    He left the name, at which the world grew pale.

  6. #26
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    8,200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    As it goes, Opening uses some new scripting that is pretty forgiving; as long as you hit the enemy with Opening within 1 second of them leaving 100% hitpoints (even if they're at 1% remaining at the time you hit them), it'll still deal the extra damage.
    That's a solution for some cases, and might help more for group play when people ninja-hit your target, but really I was thinking more about cases where incidental AOE (or other insignificant damage like hireling attacks) renders a mob down to like 99.5% before you can turn your attention to them, Mark them, and Opening. The build is designed as a "one at a time" serial attacker, after all. But 0.5% is not really functionally enough damage to warrant not being able to get the Opening proc when its their turn to die.

    Plus, like I mentioned above, a single Scattershot blow is not really that much damage, but it precludes Opening on the mobs, effectively making Scattershot unusable for the one situation its designed for, multi-target fights.

    Maybe 90% is too generous a threshold but 95% or even 98% would really give Walkers enough breathing room to not have to pull their punches just to preserve their ability to hit mobs with the double-force Opening salvo, which is like ~60% of my DPS playtesting.

  7. #27

    Default

    Regarding the capstone:

    Honestly? Almost no builds take capstones in Universal Trees. Any of them. The numbers are very low overall.

    This particular ability was suggested by multiple players in preview 1. Its power is definitely strongest on rangers but not nothing on other builds, especially those with access to Favored enemies.

    Is there any Ranger build you would consider taking this tree's capstone on?
    Is there any build at all you would take this tree's capstone on? Even if it was the old version?
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  8. #28
    Community Member Krumm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    249

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Regarding the capstone:

    Honestly? Almost no builds take capstones in Universal Trees. Any of them. The numbers are very low overall.

    This particular ability was suggested by multiple players in preview 1. Its power is definitely strongest on rangers but not nothing on other builds, especially those with access to Favored enemies.

    Is there any Ranger build you would consider taking this tree's capstone on?
    Is there any build at all you would take this tree's capstone on? Even if it was the old version?

    I guess we (the players) would like HW to be more like Inquisitive, where capstone is definitely worth it.
    I guess, you, or the developers feel that HW should be like Harper/Falconry/Illusionist/Vistani where in most cases, investing up to capstone is not worth it.

    Is this the case?


    I guess in the end, I was just hoping to have another option at a strong ranged build other than inquisitive but it's looking less likely...
    Last edited by Krumm; 07-14-2021 at 05:58 PM.

  9. #29
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    8,200

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Regarding the capstone:

    Honestly? Almost no builds take capstones in Universal Trees. Any of them. The numbers are very low overall.

    This particular ability was suggested by multiple players in preview 1. Its power is definitely strongest on rangers but not nothing on other builds, especially those with access to Favored enemies.

    Is there any Ranger build you would consider taking this tree's capstone on?
    Is there any build at all you would take this tree's capstone on? Even if it was the old version?
    Well Inquisitive builds always take the capstone, and I think that's most peoples' expectation/frame of reference for comparison. Whether that's fair or not is up to you to decide, but a lot of people expected HW to be a complete, self-contained, standalone toolbox for bow combat the way that Inqui was for xbows.

    As for Rangers...yes the Favored Marked mechanic mainly helps pure Rangers (if you're doing a multiclass Rgr for a HW build, you're probably stopping at 9 and not getting the last few FE feats anyway). And that probably comes down to a choice between DWS or HW capstone. IMO, if you're playing it as a pure single target build (which, again IMO, is the only thing HW is suitable for), then the +damage vs marked targets probably wins out because you already have a buttload of RP from AF stacks (which, again, is de facto required for HW to work) and you dont have the ROF (1 attack/second) to really make Sneak die worthwhile.

    Though if you're multiclassing it then you only have one option for the capstone anyway, so that probably weighs into the balance equation.

  10. #30
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,377

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Regarding the capstone:

    Honestly? Almost no builds take capstones in Universal Trees. Any of them. The numbers are very low overall.
    Maybe go back and take a look at all of the (non-inquisitive) UT capstone abilities then. Why are they so unappealing that "almost no one" takes them?

    I get that they're deliberately lower power than class trees, because they don't lock you into pure-classing, but there still needs to be 40 other points of worthy abilities in the tree. In order to do that, it helps to have a desirable T5 in the tree, otherwise you're looking at a ~35 ~41 AP split with only a couple spare points to spend in other class/racial trees.
    Last edited by Artos_Fabril; 07-14-2021 at 06:29 PM.

  11. #31
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    3,423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Regarding the capstone:

    Is there any Ranger build you would consider taking this tree's capstone on?
    Is there any build at all you would take this tree's capstone on? Even if it was the old version?
    DWS has a stronger capstone, same damage (3d6 sneak) as ~5 favored enemies, but doesn't take marking, and also applies to multiple targets with IPS, and also comes with 20 ranged power, and also comes with unlimited sneak attack range. So rangers aren't going to take it.

    Non-rangers don't have favored enemies, so they aren't going to take it either. The old tree's capstone of ranged power is better for non-rangers.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 07-14-2021 at 09:56 PM.

  12. #32

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Regarding the capstone:

    Honestly? Almost no builds take capstones in Universal Trees. Any of them. The numbers are very low overall.
    It seems to me, that whichever tree one takes T5 in, if they can, they are very likely to take the capstone.

    T5 Harper is weak, so the capstone is a non factor. IMO this tree really only serves to make INT a damage and trance stat.

    I'm not a fan of T5 illusionist but have seen shadow blade barriers so assume those took the cap. This is probably the most balanced universal tree. I use it for CHA damage stat/trance and magic missile defense, but others go deeper.

    I go all in on inquisitive so definitely take the capstone. I believe this tree is too strong for a universal. Regardless of class, xbows want these T5s and capstone.

    T5 Vistani is competitive, so the capstone is a real possibility. Not as bad as inquisitive, but I think this tree's T5s are a bit OP for a universal.
    I can be found on Orien as Cilon or Acroyer.
    HC4: Cylon Centurian
    HC3: Soulstone in Your Pack.
    HC2: Carnage

  13. #33
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Regarding the capstone:

    Honestly? Almost no builds take capstones in Universal Trees. Any of them. The numbers are very low overall.

    This particular ability was suggested by multiple players in preview 1. Its power is definitely strongest on rangers but not nothing on other builds, especially those with access to Favored enemies.

    Is there any Ranger build you would consider taking this tree's capstone on?
    Is there any build at all you would take this tree's capstone on? Even if it was the old version?
    Given the large numbers of dual crossbow Inquisitive characters I've been seeing of late I find that difficult to believe. I had assumed that Horizon Walker was the bow user equivalent of inquisitive. I've got a capstoned Vistani Druid that does fairly well. And while rare people have designed full illusionist builds for multi-phantasmal killer SLA casting.

    The majority of what power is in Horizon Walker is in the Tier 5 abilities including the crit range and mult. If you Tier 5 in Horizon Walker then you might as well capstone in it. ( particularly if you are multi-class or non-ranger ) If not then archers will spend 13 AP to get dex trance and the "mark target" ability won't ever enter their hot bar.

  14. #34
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Regarding the capstone:

    Honestly? Almost no builds take capstones in Universal Trees. Any of them. The numbers are very low overall.

    Is there any build at all you would take this tree's capstone on? Even if it was the old version?
    In regards to the capstone only, I write the following:

    I may be in the minority here, but I rarely take any capstones for a simple reason: I love to multiclass. Universal trees offer me the only opportunity on a majority of my builds to even have access to a capstone. I think that capstones should be good (maybe not as good as a pure class capstone), but one thing that seems silly to me is to gear a UT capstone towards a specific class rather than a playstyle. The UT is about a playstyle, rather than a class. That's what makes them universal options. Perhaps the Favored Enemy bonus is good enough in the capstone rather than the RP and DS. That's a whole debate, which is being had at. I just think dismissing the UT capstones because "nobody takes them" is missing the point of both universal trees and capstones.

    Now that there is a UT that fits a build/playstyle I like, I am excited to actually *have* a capstone to take. I would prefer its effectiveness not be gimped by my not being a pure ranger who would, as stated, not want the capstone anyway. Pure ranger isn't the audience this capstone should be marketed towards.

    Thank you

  15. #35
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    39

    Default I wanted to love this tree

    my main is a ranger, deep woods sniper, wood elf...and I typically don't run improved precise shot, so I kinda thought this tree would be perfect for my playstyle. but after a few hours testing, moving enhancements around, and beating on the kobolds, and hitting new quests...I'm thinking I'll go into the tree deep enough to get No Missed Step.

    It's already been said, but there's not enough ranged power in this tree. example, even with a marked target (tier 5 Deep Woods Sniper & core 6 Horizon Walker <for heavy draw/strike lighting>) the average crit was about 25% lower than a pure Deep Woods Sniper. my expectation was i'd sacrifice a bit of damage on typical mobs and unmarked targets, but be vastly superior against marked targets. my hope was damage would be on par with a Deep Woods Sniper for unmarked and mind-blowing for marked targets.

    Bug? I was never able to get the core 6 Horizon to provide the +2Manyshot.

    There is quite a bit of debuff & the -20% movement speed on marked targets will be a blast to play in difficult content....maybe the reduction in damage will be offset by added fun factor (scatter shot & dimension door & misty step...I do love tumbling)...but for a universal tree with the stated focus I just kinda hoped for a bit more...maybe it's just to hard to test this build outside of skilled party and I was solo.

    Maybe each of the Walker Training enhancements could include ranged power if using a bow (5 each) & the Horizon Core could provide 10 ranged power?

    Maybe ramp up the damage against Marked Targets significantly.

    It'd be neat if Mark of the Hunted applied all the debuffs earned in the Horizon Walker tree, basically make Mark of the Hunted DWS core as part of Mark Target (and visa versa)...there's just a ton of synergy here.

  16. #36
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Regarding the capstone:

    Honestly? Almost no builds take capstones in Universal Trees. Any of them. The numbers are very low overall.

    This particular ability was suggested by multiple players in preview 1. Its power is definitely strongest on rangers but not nothing on other builds, especially those with access to Favored enemies.

    Is there any Ranger build you would consider taking this tree's capstone on?
    Is there any build at all you would take this tree's capstone on? Even if it was the old version?
    I tend to think that the old version is better, but I wonder how much exta dmg you get from this "and deal extra damage against them"
    The main problem with this new version is that its power depends on how many favored enemies you have, so you are stuck with rangers. Plz keep the old version.
    Last edited by R1ncewind; 07-14-2021 at 07:41 PM.

  17. #37
    Community Member Thar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    2,090

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Regarding the capstone:

    Honestly? Almost no builds take capstones in Universal Trees. Any of them. The numbers are very low overall.

    This particular ability was suggested by multiple players in preview 1. Its power is definitely strongest on rangers but not nothing on other builds, especially those with access to Favored enemies.

    Is there any Ranger build you would consider taking this tree's capstone on?
    Is there any build at all you would take this tree's capstone on? Even if it was the old version?
    why put it in the game if it's not worthwhile? it's a waste of time and space then? Every enhancement should be useful to some degree and equal to others of the same tier otherwise there is imbalance and then calls for nerfing something better than the other.
    Member of "Guild of the Black Dragons" & "Swords of the Light" on Sarlona. Proud "Last" member of Caffeine - we aint stragicially savy.
    Kilthar-Tharr-Delkanthalus-Carissa-Mirasina-Ktara-Imara-Thistle-Tharissa-Robothar-Minithar-Miriella-Tharnessa-Tharisa

  18. #38
    Community Member SardaofChaos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    926

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thar View Post
    if you stand still as an archer you die. you can't face tank mobs and you can't dodge other archers that way. how is that fun? The only time you can do this is if you have a tank. Since few tanks run quests as they can't kill anything, this is likely a raid or high reaper only build option. I leveled my tank as dps and then LR into a tank build when done...
    Did you know that not everyone plays by themselves at difficulties that force them to kite every enemy for 5 minutes?

  19. #39

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by R1ncewind View Post
    I tend to think that the old version is better, but I wonder how much exta dmg you get from this "and deal extra damage against them"
    [+2 damage per Favored Enemy feat you have (including this capstone)] x [the number of Favored enemy feats you have that apply to this enemy type].

    If you have Favored Enemy: Elemental and this capstone, and the target is a Marked Elemental, you get full Favored enemy damage twice.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  20. #40
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    720

    Default

    Not gonna lie, the capstone for this relying on having ranger levels to be effective is a big downgrade in feel, even if it isn't worse in power (for Rangers).

    This is a universal tree, and so the capstone should stay universal, and not be quite as reliant on being X class to be useful.

Page 2 of 13 FirstFirst 12345612 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload