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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U51 Early Preview: Epic Destiny Revamp: Primal Avatar

    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Hello folks! This is part of the Epic Overhaul. If you haven't read our Overview post and its companion info post, please do that first before reading this!

    The Primal Avatar tree has been rebuilt to now focused just on spell casting. Some of it's original melee elements were moving into fury of the wild to keep the tree more focused. The desire is this tree will be an interesting possibility for most if not all casters, while still having a few druid specific perks because of it's theme.

    Core Abilities:

    1. This is your Nature (Level 20): Select either Heart, Sky or Thorn. The rest of this tree's options will be determined by this choice. Multiselector:
      • Heart: You follow the path of the Heart. Each Core Ability in this tree, including this one, grants the following: +5 Fire, Light, Positive and Universal Spell Power, +50 Maximum Spellpoints, +1 Epic bonus to all DCs.
      • Sky: You follow the path of the Sky. Each Core Ability in this tree, including this one, grants the following: +5 Electric, Cold, Sonic and Universal Spell Power, +50 Maximum Spellpoints, +1 Epic bonus to all DCs.
      • Thorn: You follow the path of the Thorn. Each Core Ability in this tree, including this one, grants the following: +5 Acid, Force, Poison and Universal Spell Power, +50 Maximum Spellpoints, +1 Epic bonus to all DCs.
    2. Now Grow: (Level 23): Choose another aspect of nature to gain a minor affinity for. You cannot choose what you took in the first core again. This does NOT confer eligibility to abilities later in the tree. Multiselector:
      • Heart: You gain a minor affinity for Heart. You gain the following for each Core Ability you take in this tree, including this one: +3 Fire, Light, and Positive Spell Power.
      • Sky: You gain a minor affinity for Sky. You gain the following for each Core Ability you take in this tree, including this one: +3 Electric, Cold, and Sonic Spell Power.
      • Thorn: You gain a minor affinity for Thorn. You gain the following for each Core Ability you take in this tree, including this one: +3 Acid, Force, and Poison Spell Power.
    3. Weathering the Elements (Level 26): Gain 15% absorption against Fire/Cold/Acid/Electric/Poison damage. Whenever you cast any protection from element spell it grants you 25 points per level instead of 12 with no level cap.


    Tier 1 (requires level 20):

    • Seeking Balance: +1/2/3 Reflex Saving Throws, +2/4/6 Tumble and Balance. Rank 3: If you are using a Quarterstaff, you gain +1 Damage and +5 Universal Spell Power.
    • Well Weathered: +1/2/3 to Physical and Magical Resistance Rating.
    • Primal Avatar Builder: Gain a Spell that builds Primal Charges based on your nature. Multiselector:
      • (requires Nature of Heart) Spring to Summer: Primal Builder: A burst of butterflies forms around the caster in a small radius applying a copy of rejuvenation cocoon to all allies. After several seconds the butterflies burst into flame causing 2d6 fire damage per character level to all nearby enemies, with a reflex save for half damage (DC: 20 + Evocation Bonuses + Highest Mental Ability Score Modifier). For each enemy struck, gain one Primal Charge up to two. Activation Cost: 20 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12 Seconds.
      • (requires Nature of Sky) Storm Catcher: Primal Builder : Target enemy becomes chilled to the bone for 8 seconds, which slows them and cuases them to take 1d6 per 2 character levels in Cold damage every two seconds, with no save. As the effect ends the target will also be struck by a lightning bolt for 1d6+6 electric damage per caster level, with a Fortitude save for half damage, for the duration of the effect. You gain one Primal Charge. Activation Cost: 20 Spell Points. Cooldown: 8 Seconds.
      • (requires Nature of Thorn) Carrion Swarm: Primal Builder: Target enemy becomes covered with biting acidic and poisonous insects. Every 2 seconds they take 1d6+1 acid and 1d6+1 poison damage per 2 character levels for 8 seconds. Stacks up to 3 times. Each stack also causes a -4 penalty to attack rolls and Armor class. You gain a Primal Charge. Cooldown: 6 Seconds. Activation Cost: 20 Spell Points.
    • Nature's Friend: When you sit to rest at a rest shrine your selected friend of nature visits you briefly and offers comfort. You and nearby party members are granted a buff that lasts until the end of your current quest.
      • Bat of Echoes: +10 Sonic Spell Power, +15 Sonic Absorption, +3 Listen
      • Bird of Wind: +10 Electric Spell Power, +1% Dodge, +3 Spot
      • Fox of Flame: +10 Fire Spell Power, +2 Damage with Sneak Attacks, +3 Move Silently
      • Frog of the Lake: +10 Cold Spell Power, +2 Magical Resistance Rating, +3 Jump
      • Spider of the Deeps: +10 Poison and Acid Spell Power, 15% Poison Absorption
      • Squirrel of Luck: +1 to Attack, Damage, and all Saving Throws
    • Rejuvenation Cocoon: Protects target with a shield of 35/75/150 Temporary Hit Points for 9 seconds. Heals 5d6 HP every 2 seconds while the shield persists.



    Tier 2 (requires level 20):

    • Thrive: Each Primal Charge you have now grant you 2% Spell Cost Reduction.
    • Natural Shielding: You gain 10 Maximum Hit Points, +2 Magical Resistance Rating. Your summons, pets, and hirelings gain 60% bonus to Maximum Hit Points, +3 Magical Resistance Rating, +4 Reflex Saving Throws, and gain the Evasion feat.
    • Mantle of Nature: Primal Avatar Destiny Mantle: Multiselector:
      • (Heart) Your Healing spells have a chance to apply a copy of Rejuvination Cocoon to your target. Your Fire, Light, and Alignment spells have a chance to apply a blast of that damage type for an extra 1d3 per character level. All effects scale with 100% Spell Power. Each effect can only occur once every 5 seconds, tracked separately. Gain a Primal Charge whenever either of these effects occur.
      • (Sky) Your Cold, Electric, and Sonic spells have a chance to blast one target for an additional 1d3 damage per character level of the same type as the spell used. Each element can only occur once every 5 seconds, tracked separately. Gain a Primal Charge whenever this occurs.
      • (Thorn) Your Acid, Poison, and Force spells have a chance to blast one target for an additional 1d3 damage per character level of the same type as the spell used. Each element can only occur once every 5 seconds, tracked separately. Gain a Primal Charge whenever this occurs.
    • Primal Avatar - Spender: Gain a Spell that expends Primal Charges based on your nature. Multiselector:
      • (Heart) Reborn in Fire Primal Spender: A swirl of fire surrounds you dealing 1d6 fire damage per character level to enemies and healing allies for 1d3 per character level. This consumes all Primal Charges, and both the damage and healing are increased by 25% per Primal Charge. If 3 or more Primal Charges are consumed, the bonus damage and healing are doubled and you gain Dancing Flame for 6 seconds. Dancing Flame: +35% Uncapped Dodge. Cooldown: 5 Seconds. Activation Cost: 20 Spell Points.
      • (Sky) Thunder Snow: Primal Spender: Sends forth a wide wave of freezing hail before you with a narrow blast of lightning at its center directly in front of the caster. The hail deals 1d6 cold damage per character level, Fortitude save for half (DC: 20 + Evocation Bonuses + Highest Mental Ability Score Modifier). The bolt of lightning strikes for 1d6 per character level. Reflex save for half. This consumes all Primal Charges, and damage of both the hail and lightning are increased by 25% per Primal Charge. If 3 or more Primal Charges are consumed, enemies caught within are slowed by 70%. Cooldown: 20 Seconds. Activation Cost: 20 Spell Points.
      • (Thorn) Shard Storm: Summons a cloud of acidic poisonous shards that randomly strikes enemies within 15 meters. 6 strikes over 6 seconds. Each shard deals 1d3 poison and acid damage per character level. This consumes all Primal Charges, and the damage of each shard is increased by 25% per Primal Charge. If 3 or more Primal Charges are consumed, the bonus damage is doubled, and you gain Shard Deflection for 12 seconds. Shard Deflection: You gain 30% of your Maximum Hit Points as Temporary Hit Points. Cooldown: 5 Seconds. Activation Cost: 20 Seconds.
    • Spirit Boon: Multiselector:
      • +1/2/2 Primal bonus to Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution. Rank 3: Your Primal Charge Cap is increased by 1.
      • +1/2/2 Primal bonus to Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma. Rank 3: Your Primal Charge Cap is increased by 1.



    Tier 3 (requires level 23):

    • Improved Form: While in any Elemental Form, you gain +3/6/10 Universal Spell Power. While in any Wild Shape, you gain +2/4/6 Magical Resistance Rating.
    • Spirit Heart: +2/4/6 Healing Amplification. Your Healing spells have a 5/10/15% chance to grant a Divine Charge while you are in combat.
    • Magic of the Old World: Select a Spell School to Specialize in. Multiselector:
      • Evocation: +1/2/3 Evocation Spell DCs.
      • Conjuration: +1/2/3 Conjuration Spell DCs.
      • Transmutation: +1/2/3 Transmutation DCs.
    • Nature's Blessing: When you rest the spirit of nature manifests as a Unicorn and provides with nature's blessing to you and nearby party members. Nature's Blessing: +5% Insight bonus to Maximum Hitpoints. This effect lasts until you leave the dungeon.
    • Flowers in the Thorns: Stepping inside a Spike Growth or Entangle spell, either hostile or friendly, heals you for 1d3 hit points every 5 seconds per character level of the spell's owner.



    Tier 4 (requires level 26):

    • Natural Evasion: Gain the Evasion Feat. Exclusive from other enhancements that grant this feat.
    • Shared Mantle: Your summons now also benefit from your Mantle of Nature. When the mantle triggers for them they have a chance to give their summoner a Primal Charge. This still uses your spell power or melee/ranged power to scale.
    • Primal Intensity: Multiselector:
      • Heart: +5/10/15 Fire, Light, and Positive Spell Power
      • Sky: +5/10/15 Cold, Electric, and Sonic Spell Power
      • Thorn: +5/10/15 Acid, Poison, and Force Spell Power
    • Epic Improved Metamagics: Select a Meta Magic to improve. Multiselector:
      • Epic Improved Empower III: Reduces the cost of the Empower Metamagic by 2/4/6 spell points.
      • Epic Improved Maximize III: Reduces the cost of the Maximize Metamagic by 3/6/9 spell points.
      • Epic Improved Quicken III: Reduces the cost of the Quicken Metamagic by 1/2/4 spell points.
    • Epic Improved Metamagics: Select a Meta Magic to improve. Multiselector:
      • Epic Improved Empower III: Reduces the cost of the Empower Metamagic by 2/4/6 spell points.
      • Epic Improved Maximize III: Reduces the cost of the Maximize Metamagic by 3/6/9 spell points.
      • Epic Improved Quicken III: Reduces the cost of the Quicken Metamagic by 1/2/4 spell points.



    Tier 5 (requires level 30):

    • Primal Ally: Multi Selector: Gain the ability to summon an elemental ally based on your nature.
      Multiselector:
      • (Heart) Heart Flame Dryad: Creates an elder dryad that casts fire, light, and healing spells. She remains rooted to her summoning point. Duration: 15 Seconds. Cooldown: 15 Seconds. Activation Cost: 50 Spell Points.
      • (Sky) Storm Guard : Creates a greater storm spirit to blast your foes with lightning, cold, and sound using your casting stats.. Remains bound to their summoning spot. Duration: 15 Seconds. Cooldown: 15 Seconds. Activation Cost: 50 Spell Points.
      • (Thorn) Briar Patch: Summoned a greater thorn spirit to blast your foes with Acid, Poison, and Force using your casting stats. Remains bound to their summoning spot. Duration: 15 Seconds. Cooldown: 15 Seconds. Activation Cost: 50 Spell Points.
    • Ancient Wisdom: +1/2/3 to all Spell DCs.
    • Mass Frog: Up to six nearby enemies are turned into frogs. Each may avoid ribbiting on a successful Fortitude saving throw vs. DC (20+ Highest of Wisdom/Intelligence/Charisma modifier + Transmutation bonuses). Cooldown: 1 Minute. Activation Cost: 60 Spell Points. (this is a copy of the destiny feat which is being removed from the epic feat list)
    • Primal Channel: Gain an enhancement spell cost reduction of 10% to all spells.
    • Epic Improved Intensify Spell: Reduces the cost of the Intensify Spell Metamagic by 2/4/6 Spell Points.
    Last edited by Cocomajobo; 06-15-2021 at 01:19 PM.
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  2. #2

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    Love the direction you took summoning here and with the stationary summon it should reduce lag and pathing issues that standard summins cause.
    $GME YOLO

  3. #3
    Community Member Seph1roth5's Avatar
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    Heart Flame Dryad doesn't say it uses your casting stats, is that a typo? I definitely like summoning a badass summon for 15 sec though.
    My main Orien Bozos - Mozenrath, Messam, Yashamaru, Quackerjack

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  4. #4
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    Magic of the Old World: Select a Spell School to Specialize in. Multiselector:
    Evocation: +1/2/3 Evocation Spell DCs.
    Conjuration: +1/2/3 Conjuration Spell DCs.
    Transmutation: +1/2/3 Transmutation DCs.
    The similar toggle in Shadowdancer has 4 options.
    Please add Necromancy as an option to Magic of the Old.

    My FvS DC casters wants to use Mass Frog + Destruction so being able to pick Necromancy would be very helpful.
    I figure Druid DC casters would want to use Mass Frog + Finger of Death - again making Necromancy useful.
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  5. #5
    Community Member MistaMagic's Avatar
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    Default Rejuvenation Cocoon

    This is one of the main emergency heals that is used at end game (when no recognised healer is present) and is VERY widely used as in its current form its a easy T1 twist. Now that Primal Avatar is no longer giving any Mele or Ranged bonuses I can not see how I personaly could merit putting points into PA to get it back now that we will no longer have any twists.
    I have no idea atm what to suggest and will leave that to others
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistaMagic View Post
    This is one of the main emergency heals that is used at end game (when no recognised healer is present) and is VERY widely used as in its current form its a easy T1 twist. Now that Primal Avatar is no longer giving any Mele or Ranged bonuses I can not see how I personaly could merit putting points into PA to get it back now that we will no longer have any twists.
    I have no idea atm what to suggest and will leave that to others
    Af far as I can tell you will have up to 59 Destiny Points (DP) to use assuming level 30 and loads of EPL etc.
    A tier 5 tree is 31+ DP
    A tier 4 tree is 21+ DP
    2 DP in Primal Avatar is your 3rd tree and yields Cocoon.

    Even at level 20 2 DP in PA yields Cocoon.

    Any reason why that wont work for you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Af far as I can tell you will have up to 59 Destiny Points (DP) to use assuming level 30 and loads of EPL etc.
    A tier 5 tree is 31+ DP
    A tier 4 tree is 21+ DP
    2 DP in Primal Avatar is your 3rd tree and yields Cocoon.

    Even at level 20 2 DP in PA yields Cocoon.

    Any reason why that wont work for you?
    Giving up the 10-20 melee power from using an actual melee power (ranged power) third tree.

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    Hmm can't really give feedback on this without first seeing Draconic and Avenging as those are the other elemental caster tree's. Draconic was Fire/Cold/Acid/Electric and Avenging was Radiant/Positive with lots of bugged SLA's but one really good debuff.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MistaMagic View Post
    This is one of the main emergency heals that is used at end game (when no recognised healer is present) and is VERY widely used as in its current form its a easy T1 twist. Now that Primal Avatar is no longer giving any Mele or Ranged bonuses I can not see how I personaly could merit putting points into PA to get it back now that we will no longer have any twists.
    Good. Maybe now you won't have it so easy and the entire playerbase can't resort to a braindead strat to trivialize content.

  10. #10
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    Default Yes that is a typo

    Quote Originally Posted by Seph1roth5 View Post
    Heart Flame Dryad doesn't say it uses your casting stats, is that a typo? I definitely like summoning a badass summon for 15 sec though.
    Yes some of the text descriptions aren't update to date. All Primal Allies will work the same in regard to spell power and casting stat.

    -T

  11. #11
    Community Member Zuldar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Mantle of Nature: Primal Avatar Destiny Mantle: Multiselector:
    (Heart) Your Healing spells have a chance to apply a copy of Rejuvination Cocoon to your target. Your Fire, Light, and Alignment spells have a chance to apply a blast of that damage type for an extra 1d3 per character level. All effects scale with 100% Spell Power. Each effect can only occur once every 5 seconds, tracked separately. Gain a Primal Charge whenever either of these effects occur.
    Quick question, does this work with non-spells such as the radiant servants healing aura?
    Chaotic evil means never having to say you're sorry.

  12. #12
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    Tsunami is being removed? one of the most useful things in the entire ED system and an extremely popular twist?

    Just whamo - removed?

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    Default Two Weapon Fighting?

    This was the two-weapon fighting tree. Where will that live now? I see Divine Crusader got the shield, but I am not seeing Two-Handed, SWF or TWF? The tree looks fine for melee casters, and seems a welcome compliment to the existing Fatesinger tree (as the tree for melee/caster hybrids).

  14. #14
    Community Member rabidfox's Avatar
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    As a healer, this tree looks pretty goodl; flavor wise and everything else looks really sweet. I'll want to see how it pairs up with divine, but it does seems nice. With some stuff broken and a lack of other trees I'd use available, my testing of stuff on lam is kinda limited this time around for what all I can do and it's hard to compare with live with most of the trees I use missing.

    Spring to Summer: Primal Builder: A burst of butterflies forms around the caster in a small radius applying a copy of rejuvenation cocoon to all allies. After several seconds the butterflies burst into flame causing 2d6 fire damage per character level to all nearby enemies, with a reflex save for half damage (DC: 20 + Evocation Bonuses + Highest Mental Ability Score Modifier). For each enemy struck, gain one Primal Charge up to two. Activation Cost: 20 Spell Points. Cooldown: 12 Seconds.
    This currently does a one-time heal and doesn't apply cocoon.

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    Heart Flame Dryad: Creates an elder dryad that casts fire, light, and healing spells. She remains rooted to her summoning point. Duration: 15 Seconds. Cooldown: 15 Seconds. Activation Cost: 50 Spell Points.

    A T5 ability for a random casting summoning with only 15 sec duration? You must be kidding.

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    - Is each of the various sources of Cocoon a different one that stacks with the others? Ie if I cast Cocoon and then get a Cocoon proc from Heart mantle, is that +300 and double healing, or does it just refresh?

    - When you say +1 to all DCs, do you mean all spell DCs, or does that boost e.g. Tactical DCs too?

    - What is a "healing spell" for the purposes of proccing here? Is it just Positive spells, or does that include Repair and Negative heals as well?

    - Does Flowers in Thorns work off the mob CR for hostile Entangles? Seems like that'd be really high in Reaper - though there arent that many sources of Entangle or Spiked Growth, I guess. Does it count as someone else healing you if its not your own spell, for purposes of Reaper self heal penalty?

    -"Dryad remains rooted"...ISWYDT

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    This is a weak tree. It has mass frog but almost nothing else worth it in Tier 4 + 5.


    Tier 1:
    Rejuvenation Cocoon: Hasn't changed at all. So all builds that are crippled without it can breathe a sigh of relief.
    Well Weathered: Even at Tier 1 this is a joke.
    Spring to Summer: An effect that triggers after several seconds? No, that is a joke.

    Tier 3:
    Improved Form: seems weak
    Spirit Heart: seem weaker

    Tier 4:
    Heart: weak
    Natural Evasion: since this is a caster tree for spellcasting druids what character can use this?

    Tier 5:
    Primal Ally: Summons are always questionable DDO has never figured out how to scale them.
    Mass Frog: A lot of characters are going to be missing this.
    Epic Improved Intensify Spell: so weak

  18. #18
    Community Member Spawawa's Avatar
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    I like the idea behind the summons and I have a few ideas that could make them legitimately fun to use. Currently I believe summons use our spellpower and DCs. Please make them also use our critical chance and critical multiplier. They are also somewhat annoying due to the randomness of the spells cast. I'd really like to see a set spell order when you summon them. Let's say they cast 6 total spells. If this order was always the same (ex: lightning ball, call lightning, lightning bolt, polar ray, lance of frost, cone of frost) then it would make them super interesting to use. We could try to time things such as the dryad to expect a heal after x amount of casts. Targeting could stay random to not make it too complicated.

    As others have stated the tree unfortunately feels somewhat weak... hard to say where you intend the power values to be but compared to melee trees giving a grand total of 90 melee power if you go for 9 cores some of these numbers (like spellpower given and damage dice on the spells) feel underwhelming at best.
    Last edited by Spawawa; 06-15-2021 at 08:45 PM.
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  19. #19
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    I like mass frog, and don't like to see it locked into PA.

    The T2 effects that use up primal charges seem lackluster. I can't see why I want these instead of the spells I'd have as a caster.

    And this seems to be the end of playing as any sort of hybrid wolf or bear but uses-spells-too builds. Which were never optimal or meta but which I've found rather fun over the years.

    I had fun as a tree for a while in the past as well. I never understood the reasons for nerfing them into a joke, but now even that's gone, which is too bad.

    I don't have a druid at the moment, and looks like I won't bother with one in the future.
    Don't be a figjam.

  20. #20
    Community Member Avocado's Avatar
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    Is there any possible way that you can always have a spell display display a dc. Mass frog doesnt show its actual dc when you hover over it like regualr spells. Its hit or miss on whether SLAs show there dc in the tooltip hover menu. Im not sure why this is but it may be worth looking into as its really annoying to have to hand calculate the dc.

    The summons seem worthless atm. The stick in place, which is fine but they only last like 10 seconds and there spell were doing about 50 damage. Granted this was in a level 5 slayer zone, im not sure if they scale with quest level but summons are generally worthless and this will only reinforce that.

    +3 sp power for a core ability is an absolute troll. These need to be at least 10. For a total of 30 with all cores.

    Spring to summer doesnt do any fire damage. Or maybe nothing at all.

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