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  1. #181
    Community Member rabidfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobodynobody1426 View Post
    Anyway we can get Heal Mass fixed casting time reduced to be something useful like the other heal spells?
    Every life on divines, I take it and never use it; outside of Master Artificer for healing thru the anti-magic (if I don't have "Cure Critical Wounds, Mass" that life), and even then people are better off moving away from the boss on occasion to get topped up vs hoping the mass heal goes off in time. It's just so slow that multiple people will be dead before it ever goes off. For a level 9 spell, it's complete junk.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    Hi,

    I like most of the changes

    I agree however with a lot of players that a raise dead SLA is something that I do not see as of any use. First of all, we have tons of clickies (eg. heroic shroud triple positive) that do just fine to raise someone. Second, for me, a SLA is something meant to spam, a bread and butter spell. If I have to spam raise dead something is awfully wrong!
    As such having it as a T5 is a wasted opportunity for something more unique or better. For example, like an ardor clicky to increase healing spellpower, or as others suggested Death Pact on ally or Mass Protection from Elements... anything that makes me use this ability actually more than once to warrant it.

    I also think there is another reason why people select this SLA on a FVS.

    my 2 cents
    CLERIC multiclass benefits most from this. But Radiant needs something combat oriented imo and incorporating shield enhancements specifically for cleric maybe even with a deity to specialize in it was the way to go as a more Frontline medic role. Maybe incorporate things like...you can now use first aid kits to heal great damage without expending SP...cure diseases. Poisons etc.
    I mean think outside the box for more flavor. (For those splashing cleric the first aid kit thing would be a low tier survival enhancement that can be used even raged that could scale with level/heal skill and even self administered allowing possibility of +15 heal first aid kits to drop later for example)
    How about living Shrine...once per DUNGEON/Adventure..The Cleric becomes a living temple for all other members of the party which may treat the player as a shrine.
    Last edited by Enderoc; 06-10-2021 at 02:49 PM.
    Main Characters: Korkoch the Cruel, Sylhuetta Sidhe...Thelanis

  3. #183
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Steelstar,

    From a long time radiant servant ...

    CMW sla in core 2: while I like the idea that there are sometimes multiple ways to reach a similar goal, i.e. CMW sla ... This SLA should be placed if possible in the enhancements rather than core so that one can choose it if they aren't healing domain as well as not choose it if they are healing domain. Suggestion: Move divine cleansing into core 2 and place CMW sla into tier 2 while moving purge dark magics into tier 1.

    Pacifism: understanding the use of this spills into understanding a few mechanics underlying. For those uninitiated, it applies to whatever you "cast" while toggled and remains on that what is casted even after you toggle it off. Main point is that the loss of 3% crit chance is a nerf. Suggestion: place 1% crit chance into core 1 and core 2 to offset the loss sans the 25 positive spell power as you previously stated that RS may have way more positive SP comparatively.

    6th core: as someone suggested, make it a selector between +4 Wis or +4 Cha

    Enhancement AP reduction cost: Bravo! A long time desired for.

    Turning: Bravo again! Not only for combining improved and extra turning, but also for fixing the mighty turning aspect.

    Divine aid: Great addition for some additional crit damage.

    Disconnected some of tree requirements: good change and needed

    Radiance: nice new shiny, time will tell how it plays out.

    T5 Raise dead sla: change please. Suggestion(s): while I have many and a few were suggested already, my current favorite (I reserve the right to change my mind in the future ????) ... Your spells gain the Enlarge feat at no extra cost.

    You have stated that your changes are for a quick update only and I thank you for reading as the suggestions I have made hopefully fall within that category.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachomammashouse View Post
    The devs got bamboozled by the forum warriors.

  4. #184
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    For those inquiring about a Close Wounds SLA. That is something I also hoped for a long time ago, but truly it would be so incredibly OP from a pure level 20 RS. The OPness is not only from a healing standpoint but from understanding how to chain together a few spells and abilities to Maximum effect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachomammashouse View Post
    The devs got bamboozled by the forum warriors.

  5. #185
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nobodynobody1426 View Post
    Anyway we can get Heal Mass fixed casting time reduced to be something useful like the other heal spells?
    I agree, its cast time corresponds to a very different DDO than the current one, when the npcs do more discreet and sustained damage rather than the strong spikes of damage that they currently do. Currently, it is an unusable spell because by the time you have finished casting it, many companions are already dead.

    ----------

    A Raise SLA is a very bad idea. In fact, I have seen people get angry with fvs that use it in high reaper or even just in epics, and for good reason: in epics there is no place for a raise that leaves you with so few hps than a single hit kills you. Devs shouldn't include more placer-friction sources in enhancements.

    Regarding turning, the question is not whether it is feasible with a lot of investment; the thing is that it is too much of a hassle to use. Devs have simplified all the classes to reduce their MAD. Fvs? They have made it easy for them to be cha or wis to your preference. Monks? They can choose dex and even wis. Rogues? Int or Dex. But we continue with the cleric needing wis and cha, and that cha is all for a skill that, although archetypal for the class, works poorly and is very poorly supported by the gear.

    Equipping a cleric is extremely annoying. You have to find a place for wis, cha and con (and with so much bonus duplication for each stat!), Spellpowers, DC casting, turning bonuses... For those who play in high difficulties, getting supplementary sources of hps is essential (greensteel or feydark winter set), and let's remember that the cleric is not given extra hps like the fvs. And the devs have not even had the detail to create synergistic objects that alleviate this equipment madness. If you want to use turning, you have to do swaps, which is annoying and stupid considering that clerics have already forced to have high cha and high wis. While the fvs have been paved so that you easily only need one or the other!

    Turning needs a review, whatever a certain poster says.

    And finally, if there is something I have found with a healer cleric who does not have the healing domain (because although my cleric is healer, I want him to do more than heal xd), it is that he runs out of spell points with an ease that it doesn't happen with any of my other casters. It's enough that feat-deficient classes like fvs and cleric are forced to take an extra feat, Empower Healing. If there is something I would like with this update, it is that they improve (better than now) the spell point cost reduction of Empower healing, even if it was at tier 5. Much better than a useless raise dead, of course. But I guess asking for this is wasting time.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  6. #186
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    For those inquiring about a Close Wounds SLA. That is something I also hoped for a long time ago, but truly it would be so incredibly OP from a pure level 20 RS. The OPness is not only from a healing standpoint but from understanding how to chain together a few spells and abilities to Maximum effect.
    If it were that OP, everyone would be running Clr 18 / FvS 2 splits. I haven't seen a single one so far.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  7. #187
    Community Member rabidfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    If it were that OP, everyone would be running Clr 18 / FvS 2 splits. I haven't seen a single one so far.
    The split would be FvS 15 / Clr 5 for Cleric's t5 Cure Focus: Your Cure Wounds spells have no maximum caster level (in order to get the strongest FvS SLA close wounds possible). It's too heavy an AP price for just close wounds spam, but on a cleric a close wounds SLA would be silly strong, like 5x stronger than the FvS version.

  8. #188
    Community Member NabeGewell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    I agree, its cast time corresponds to a very different DDO than the current one, when the npcs do more discreet and sustained damage rather than the strong spikes of damage that they currently do. Currently, it is an unusable spell because by the time you have finished casting it, many companions are already dead.

    ----------

    A Raise SLA is a very bad idea. In fact, I have seen people get angry with fvs that use it in high reaper or even just in epics, and for good reason: in epics there is no place for a raise that leaves you with so few hps than a single hit kills you. Devs shouldn't include more placer-friction sources in enhancements.

    Regarding turning, the question is not whether it is feasible with a lot of investment; the thing is that it is too much of a hassle to use. Devs have simplified all the classes to reduce their MAD. Fvs? They have made it easy for them to be cha or wis to your preference. Monks? They can choose dex and even wis. Rogues? Int or Dex. But we continue with the cleric needing wis and cha, and that cha is all for a skill that, although archetypal for the class, works poorly and is very poorly supported by the gear.

    Equipping a cleric is extremely annoying. You have to find a place for wis, cha and con (and with so much bonus duplication for each stat!), Spellpowers, DC casting, turning bonuses... For those who play in high difficulties, getting supplementary sources of hps is essential (greensteel or feydark winter set), and let's remember that the cleric is not given extra hps like the fvs. And the devs have not even had the detail to create synergistic objects that alleviate this equipment madness. If you want to use turning, you have to do swaps, which is annoying and stupid considering that clerics have already forced to have high cha and high wis. While the fvs have been paved so that you easily only need one or the other!

    Turning needs a review, whatever a certain poster says.

    And finally, if there is something I have found with a healer cleric who does not have the healing domain (because although my cleric is healer, I want him to do more than heal xd), it is that he runs out of spell points with an ease that it doesn't happen with any of my other casters. It's enough that feat-deficient classes like fvs and cleric are forced to take an extra feat, Empower Healing. If there is something I would like with this update, it is that they improve (better than now) the spell point cost reduction of Empower healing, even if it was at tier 5. Much better than a useless raise dead, of course. But I guess asking for this is wasting time.
    Totally agree with turning having to be is WIS based thing and this should have been the pass for it. Leave charisma as contributor number of turns and if you want the stat to be wanted make turns useful in some other aspect like an option to exchange TU's in to spell points for yourself. Instead it's probably going to be another 5-10years wait for next cleric improvements... And it's sad because people are clearly passionate about the class, offering a lot of good and interesting suggestions.


    Quote Originally Posted by rabidfox View Post
    The split would be FvS 15 / Clr 5 for Cleric's t5 Cure Focus: Your Cure Wounds spells have no maximum caster level (in order to get the strongest FvS SLA close wounds possible). It's too heavy an AP price for just close wounds spam, but on a cleric a close wounds SLA would be silly strong, like 5x stronger than the FvS version.
    Yeah dude we get your point, cleric so overpowered that nobody's playing it.

  9. #189
    Community Member rabidfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NabeGewell View Post
    Yeah dude we get your point, cleric so overpowered that nobody's playing it.
    My post has nothing to do with the current power level of cleric, it had to do with how one can make close wounds silly strong; which as I said isn't worth AP for doing a FvS/Cleric hybrid for that single SLA.

    However, as for cleric having it as an SLA, there's good SLAs and then there's god tier. Close wounds has a max caster level of 5. On pure 20 BoH FvS, it has a max caster level of 8. On T5 RS cleric, it has no max caster level, so a level 20 cleric would be caster level 20 +3 Intense Healing +5 epics +2 (Divine Augmentation IX item) +2 (filigree) +1 (filigree) = 33. So it would be basically 4x times stronger than the FvS's already really good SLA. So adding the same close wounds SLA that FvS has to cleric, isn't adding the same ability; it would adding a massively overpowered version of it.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabidfox View Post
    However, as for cleric having it as an SLA, there's good SLAs and then there's god tier. Close wounds has a max caster level of 5. On pure 20 BoH FvS, it has a max caster level of 8. On T5 RS cleric, it has no max caster level, so a level 20 cleric would be caster level 20 +3 Intense Healing +5 epics +2 (Divine Augmentation IX item) +2 (filigree) +1 (filigree) = 33. So it would be basically 4x times stronger than the FvS's already really good SLA. So adding the same close wounds SLA that FvS has to cleric, isn't adding the same ability; it would adding a massively overpowered version of it.
    I was holding my breath to see if Close Wounds went thru on a Favored Soul.
    I was a bit surprised that CW made the final build.

    If CMW as a tier two core is acceptable (I think it is), perhaps the Devs could make sure that the Healing Domain version and this version do not share the same cooldown since any Cleric interested in Radiant Servant would also likely be interested in the Healing Domain.

    The other option might be to increase the Healing Domain level five to CSW 6-sp 8-second cd.
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 06-12-2021 at 04:10 PM.

  11. #191
    Community Member rabidfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    If CMW as a tier two core is acceptable (I think it is), perhaps the Devs could make sure that the Healing Domain version and this version do not share the same cooldown since any Cleric interested in Radiant Servant would also likely be interested in the Healing Domain.
    Separate cooldowns is a must; but I equally hate running in healing domain, there's so many good domains that it'll nice to have that sla in the core so it opens up options.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabidfox View Post
    Separate cooldowns is a must; but I equally hate running in healing domain, there's so many good domains that it'll nice to have that sla in the core so it opens up options.
    Aye, branch out and give me earthquake, blade barrier, solid fog, or chain lighting any day.

    These changes will likely have folks consider the Animal Domain for guild healers.

  13. #193
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    If it were that OP, everyone would be running Clr 18 / FvS 2 splits. I haven't seen a single one so far.
    Quote Originally Posted by rabidfox View Post
    The split would be FvS 15 / Clr 5 for Cleric's t5 Cure Focus: Your Cure Wounds spells have no maximum caster level (in order to get the strongest FvS SLA close wounds possible). It's too heavy an AP price for just close wounds spam, but on a cleric a close wounds SLA would be silly strong, like 5x stronger than the FvS version.
    The fact that you mentioned these type of splits shows me that the information I am talking about is little known. And I mean no disrespect to these posters. Most folks don't run a healbot cleric and test out the healbot aspect of it, let alone play one at all to know it's intricacies. While BoH has some nice healing capabilities, a radiant servant cleric has the most healing capabilities and can be played in such a fast paced action type way that it can be very satisfying. (Maybe that's just me though).
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachomammashouse View Post
    The devs got bamboozled by the forum warriors.

  14. #194
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    Alternatives to T5 Raise Dead SLA: in no particular order

    1. Spells can be enlarged for free
    2. Death pact SLA sp cost 20, CD 1 min
    3. Holy aura SLA, sp cost 20, CD 8 sec
    4. Move martyrdom here and all allow it to cast Mass heal and mass resurrection and mass greater restoration upon death. That should be the true martyrdom.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachomammashouse View Post
    The devs got bamboozled by the forum warriors.

  15. #195
    Community Member rabidfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tlorrd View Post
    The fact that you mentioned these type of splits shows me that the information I am talking about is little known. And I mean no disrespect to these posters. Most folks don't run a healbot cleric and test out the healbot aspect of it, let alone play one at all to know it's intricacies. While BoH has some nice healing capabilities, a radiant servant cleric has the most healing capabilities and can be played in such a fast paced action type way that it can be very satisfying. (Maybe that's just me though).
    Hehe, that 15/5 split was just about how one can min/max the close wounds SLA (and about how it would be much stronger on a cleric than a FvS); but it's not something I'd ever do, it's was a pure conceptual gimmick build just to point how one would do it(I would be highly amused if someone actually ran that split). I mostly run BoH because every time I do cleric I feel AP starved. I have zero issues zerg clearing content while leveling or doing r10s as a RS cleric, I just don't like AP costs compared to BoH; I'm really looking forward to the reduced costs so I'll probably be spending way more lives on RS once it goes thru.
    Last edited by rabidfox; 06-13-2021 at 01:15 PM.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Radiant Servant (6th Core) now grants +4 Wisdom instead of the +2 it granted before.
    Most of our Core Capstones now grant a total of +4 in ability scores, so this was just bringing it even.
    Shouldn't Divine Disciple also get +4 Wisdom as well?

  17. #197
    Community Member Tlorrd's Avatar
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    A couple thoughts for if and definitely not when they update RS ...

    You could add in a summons line for summoning an archon, similar to PM skellie.

    You can revamp the tree to be based off the aura, granting it at core 1 and then adding features to it in the cores and enhancements.
    - PRR/MRR buffs and debuffs, divine cleansing/purge dark magics can be incorporated into the aura, aura size can grow as you increase in level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachomammashouse View Post
    The devs got bamboozled by the forum warriors.

  18. #198
    Community Member rabidfox's Avatar
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    Another idea for AP filler (although it really should be way under t5 where raise dead is, more like t1 or t2). Feigned Health/Soothing Poultices style enhancement but instead of CHA/INT uses WIS for temp HP when you cast spells on yourself or allies.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by SisAmethyst View Post
    Hi,

    I like most of the changes

    I agree however with a lot of players that a raise dead SLA is something that I do not see as of any use. First of all, we have tons of clickies (eg. heroic shroud triple positive) that do just fine to raise someone. Second, for me, a SLA is something meant to spam, a bread and butter spell. If I have to spam raise dead something is awfully wrong!
    As such having it as a T5 is a wasted opportunity for something more unique or better. For example, like an ardor clicky to increase healing spellpower, or as others suggested Death Pact on ally or Mass Protection from Elements... anything that makes me use this ability actually more than once to warrant it.

    I also think there is another reason why people select this SLA on a FVS.

    my 2 cents

    Hey,

    Totally agree with the global diagnostic and changes overall.
    I don't know if this kind of quick rework to make the tree almost up to date for a minimum workload is a good practice to keep. It should not be an excuse to never do the deepest changes. Taking it for what it is called, I find this is already significative improvements even if we could always think to better ideas.
    I just wonder about the terrible bliss and divine healing. I mean, these are totally garbage. Since it is the occasion to dust off the tree it should not stand in a "new" tree. If no idea to replace them within the given workload time I think at least a slight up would be relevant.
    Anyway, good work. It was highly expected!

  20. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stefano View Post
    Shouldn't Divine Disciple also get +4 Wisdom as well?
    It should! And almost certainly will get that or something like it down the line when we have the time to dedicate to Divine Disciple work.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

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