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  1. #1
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    Default DDOCast 635 - Ask the Devs: Update 49



    Arkat & Epicsoul join us to take a look at Update 49 Preview 2 and upcoming game performance changes and then Standing Stone Games developers Cocomajobo, Lynnabel & Cordovan join us for an episode of Ask the Devs to talk about Update 49!

    Have thoughts on this show, ideas for round table topics, questions you’d like us to answer, or topics you’d like to see us debate? Leave us a comment, send us an email (ddocast@gmail.com) or give us a tweet (@ddocast)!

    Check out www.ddocast.com for mp3 audio, our show calendar, archives, and more!

    Want to support the show? You can feed the kobolds (give money) on our Patreon page! We use these gifts to support the show and give out prizes.

    Game News - 3:50
    U49 Game Performance - 24:42
    Community News - 56:08
    Ask the Devs: Update 49 - 1:02:50
    Ask the Devs: Game Performance Changes - 1:22:46

    Update 48.5.1
    DDO Chronicle 420
    Update 49 Preview 2
    Update 49 Preview 2: Bow Changes
    Update 49 Preview 2: Game Performance
    Lava Divers U49 Lamannia Raid Stress Test

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    Thanks for doing this! While recording this I thought it seemed like a good recording for those interested in hearing a new take of sorts on the work we're doing, and I think some people might get a lot out of it.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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    Did I hear correctly that all these changes are because of Raid Groups and how the amount of effects these large groups apply to a foe cause Server lag?

    If so…. stop the changes and nerfs and DEV time spent on these things.

    Get a new server ONLY for Raids… people that queue for a Raid instance go to this new server and do not hinder the rest of the population.

    DEV’s can then monitor Raid groups only.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrzain View Post
    Did I hear correctly that all these changes are because of Raid Groups and how the amount of effects these large groups apply to a foe cause Server lag?

    If so…. stop the changes and nerfs and DEV time spent on these things.

    Get a new server ONLY for Raids… people that queue for a Raid instance go to this new server and do not hinder the rest of the population.

    DEV’s can then monitor Raid groups only.
    No, that is incorrect. These changes are because the effects queue is being overwhelmed, the only thing a raid group does is cause that queue to form more quickly. Totally possible and totally happens in non-raid groups as well.
    Have fun, and don't forget to gather for buffs!
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    OK and TY for the response.

    So the effects queue is still there and in a Raid Group, because of the larger Group Size, this queue forms faster.

    Sorry I am confused… this is what I see…

    Repeating X-bows, Thrown and Two-weapon still build to this effects queue nearly like they did before.

    Multitude of Missiles for Simple Thrown stays the same.

    Repeating X-bows still do three hits / shots.

    Off-hand weapons still hit with that second weapon.

    Two-handed X-bow still hit with that second weapon.

    Manyshot has 3 hits / shots.
    Each of these hits / shots can Doubleshot for an extra hit / shot per the three.

    Doubleshot still gives an extra hit.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjstechie View Post
    1:21:25 -- Cocomajobo thinks that monkchers were swapping from bow to shuriken to use 10K stars with the version currently on live?

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    Big thanks to all that participiate and make stuff like this :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrzain View Post
    OK and TY for the response.

    So the effects queue is still there and in a Raid Group, because of the larger Group Size, this queue forms faster.

    Sorry I am confused… this is what I see…

    Repeating X-bows, Thrown and Two-weapon still build to this effects queue nearly like they did before.

    Multitude of Missiles for Simple Thrown stays the same.

    Repeating X-bows still do three hits / shots.

    Off-hand weapons still hit with that second weapon.

    Two-handed X-bow still hit with that second weapon.

    Manyshot has 3 hits / shots.
    Each of these hits / shots can Doubleshot for an extra hit / shot per the three.

    Doubleshot still gives an extra hit.
    I think what you are missing is that doublestrike/doubleshots are no longer a separate entry into the effect cue. The same is true of many (but not all of) the extra projectile effects outside of doubleshots.

    So that means (if my rough math is correct)...

    a repeater with 200 doubleshot will go from 5 "hits" to 3
    a dual crossbow user with 200 doubleshot will go from 4 "hits" to 2
    TWF will go from a maximum of 4 "hits" to 2
    throwers will go from I think 5 hits to 1 hit
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjstechie View Post
    I think what you are missing is that doublestrike/doubleshots are no longer a separate entry into the effect cue. The same is true of many (but not all of) the extra projectile effects outside of doubleshots.

    So that means (if my rough math is correct)...

    a repeater with 200 doubleshot will go from 5 "hits" to 3
    a dual crossbow user with 200 doubleshot will go from 4 "hits" to 2
    TWF will go from a maximum of 4 "hits" to 2
    throwers will go from I think 5 hits to 1 hit
    Thanks… I have never seen over 100 Double shot sadly as a causal gamer : (

    So for me and the two others I game with in DDO, all the doom and gloom posts I have been reading of late on these changes does not really apply.

    We, at less then 100 double anything, still get 3 hits / shots with a Repeating X-bow.... a possible 2nd hit with the off-hand weapon when two-weapon fighting… 2 hits / shots with the Inquisitive.

    An Arcane Archer with Paralyzing Arrows gets one hit roll for the DC save and a possible 2nd roll if double shot does go off?

    With the new Manyshot…. The AA gets 3 hit rolls and a possible 4th if double shot does go off?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrzain View Post
    An Arcane Archer with Paralyzing Arrows gets one hit roll for the DC save and a possible 2nd roll if double shot does go off?

    With the new Manyshot…. The AA gets 3 hit rolls and a possible 4th if double shot does go off?
    no. if a doubleshot goes off numerical effects double. non-numerical effects (like paralyzing arrows) still only hit the one time.

    doubles dont add extra hits, they just multiply damage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjstechie View Post
    no. if a doubleshot goes off numerical effects double. non-numerical effects (like paralyzing arrows) still only hit the one time.

    doubles dont add extra hits, they just multiply damage.
    So that is a NERF like reported to Bows and CC effects!

    Makes me sad : (

    In our next DDO campaign we thought to play all Archers…. me with CC and them with different types of Elemental damage.

    They will be fine with their concept, in fact could be a little better with damage multiplying.
    I will have to rethink mine… Doubleshot will do very little for my concept and I do not even need to build for Doubleshot now.

    We / I so liked when DDO was not a game about big damage numbers like so many are.

    In our last campaign, I played an Aasimar that used Stoneskin for a protection and a role-play concept.
    My character was the laugh in that game, with friends jokingly, calling me racist for putting “blackface” on as reported here….

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...or-barkskinned
    With bug report 88301 sent 5-16-19 … and last I check still not addressed : (

    I can not win so to speak.

    Here is hoping Valheim comes out with updates soon as we are nearly at the last boss in that game and when done wanted start our next DDO campaign, that now after this patch I need to rethink what to play.

    /sigh

  12. #12
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyrzain View Post
    OK and TY for the response.

    So the effects queue is still there and in a Raid Group, because of the larger Group Size, this queue forms faster.

    Sorry I am confused… this is what I see…

    Repeating X-bows, Thrown and Two-weapon still build to this effects queue nearly like they did before.

    Multitude of Missiles for Simple Thrown stays the same.

    Repeating X-bows still do three hits / shots.

    Off-hand weapons still hit with that second weapon.

    Two-handed X-bow still hit with that second weapon.

    Manyshot has 3 hits / shots.
    Each of these hits / shots can Doubleshot for an extra hit / shot per the three.

    Doubleshot still gives an extra hit.
    As I understand it:
    Repeaters still hit 3 times, but were already -66% doubleshot, so will switch from about 4.2 calcs per animation to 3 calc per animation
    TWF is still capped at 100% DS goes from ~3.5 calcs per animation to 2 calcs per animation
    Throwers in MoM go from ~4 calcs/animation to 1calc per animation
    Dual X-bow goes from ~3.2 calc/animation to 2 calcs/animation
    Bows go from ~4 calcs/animation in manyshot and ~2.1 calcs/animation normally, to 1 calc/animation
    THF goes from ~2*(1-5 mobs hit on normal attack or combat maneuver) calcs/animation to 1*(1-5 mobs hit or normal attack or combat maneuver) calcs/animation

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Artos_Fabril View Post
    1:21:25 -- Cocomajobo thinks that monkchers were swapping from bow to shuriken to use 10K stars with the version currently on live?
    I do. On Live you can get only 3 arrows at once, its capped at 3.
    With shuriken, I throw 5 at once, so it's simple math. 5 > 3, so more chance to get adrenaline back.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjstechie View Post
    I think what you are missing is that doublestrike/doubleshots are no longer a separate entry into the effect cue. The same is true of many (but not all of) the extra projectile effects outside of doubleshots.

    So that means (if my rough math is correct)...

    a repeater with 200 doubleshot will go from 5 "hits" to 3
    a dual crossbow user with 200 doubleshot will go from 4 "hits" to 2
    TWF will go from a maximum of 4 "hits" to 2
    throwers will go from I think 5 hits to 1 hit
    That is a massive nerf to Inquis, they really should un-nerf the Doubleshot penalty if this goes ahead. Looks like I had best start thinking about TR'ing in to a regular bow user.

    Stoner81.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoner81 View Post
    That is a massive nerf to Inquis, they really should un-nerf the Doubleshot penalty if this goes ahead. Looks like I had best start thinking about TR'ing in to a regular bow user.

    Stoner81.
    if # of hits is your concern, bow gets hit harder by this.

    with 200 doubleshot
    bows go from 3 hits to 1
    inq goes from 4 hits to 2

    if you want multiple hits with your attacks inq better than bow
    Last edited by pjstechie; 04-13-2021 at 04:44 PM.
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