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  1. #41
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfernbottom View Post
    LoTRO, STO, Neverwinter Nights, Champions Online, Guild Wars 2, and SWTOR . . .off the top of my head. If I were willing to google it I am sure there are a lot more. EQ, EQ II, and ESO all also give you a stipend with your sub or allow you to buy them directly. WoW and EVE also let you pay for funny money using in game currency that you can then use to pay for sub-time. But yeah, those are all pretty obscure . . .

    There is a good reason why so many games have systems that blur the line between straight up cash and their virtual currency. It is not the kindness of their hearts.
    Not talking about subscription points return talking about earning points for favor.

    LOTRO is The same developers so

    In WOW for example you can buy game time tokens in the auction house but you can’t access the auction house unless you have subscribed you are also lvl limited until you sub unlike DDO where you can reach cap without it’s really not even close to earning favor reward as free account. WOW tokens must first be purchased from the game store by another player and listed to the auction house so it’s still a purchase even if by proxy’s
    Last edited by Oxarhamar; 04-15-2021 at 03:57 PM.

  2. #42
    Community Member rabidfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    Not talking about subscription points return talking about earning points for favor.
    LOTRO's method is deeds (slayers, explores, quests, etc.) for LOTRO points. SSG's model between both games are fairly similar and both work pretty well; the only real difference being in DDO you can reincarnated and reset the grind on a character while in LOTRO one levels another alt up to cap. For people who play less(or are new), I think LOTRO had better point return rates while DDO has very good return rates for those who routinely TR. Overall, I like SSG's f2p stuff, it can feel a little overwhelming when just starting out, but for those who play a lot the point rewards are solid. And even with the fast rate of points I get (500+ per life every 10-14 days), I still buy the expansions for cash to support the game and have access from day 1.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    Not talking about subscription points return talking about earning points for favor.

    LOTRO is The same developers so

    In WOW for example you can buy game time tokens in the auction house but you can’t access the auction house unless you have subscribed you are also lvl limited until you sub unlike DDO where you can reach cap without it’s really not even close to earning favor reward as free account. WOW tokens must first be purchased from the game store by another player and listed to the auction house so it’s still a purchase even if by proxy’s
    Ok, so I only had six example of extremely well known MMOs that meet your arbitrary criterion. Five if you want to throw LoTRO off the list. I also suspect you know full well those aren't the only examples. If you don't, I find your opinions on this topic suspect.

  4. #44
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfernbottom View Post
    Ok, so I only had six example of extremely well known MMOs that meet your arbitrary criterion. Five if you want to throw LoTRO off the list. I also suspect you know full well those aren't the only examples. If you don't, I find your opinions on this topic suspect.
    Bad examples that surely don’t meet the criteria of free account earning points and getting farther from the point.

    WOW requires subscription to earn so that is not even close.
    Last edited by Oxarhamar; 04-15-2021 at 05:30 PM.

  5. #45
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rabidfox View Post
    LOTRO's method is deeds (slayers, explores, quests, etc.) for LOTRO points. SSG's model between both games are fairly similar and both work pretty well; the only real difference being in DDO you can reincarnated and reset the grind on a character while in LOTRO one levels another alt up to cap. For people who play less(or are new), I think LOTRO had better point return rates while DDO has very good return rates for those who routinely TR. Overall, I like SSG's f2p stuff, it can feel a little overwhelming when just starting out, but for those who play a lot the point rewards are solid. And even with the fast rate of points I get (500+ per life every 10-14 days), I still buy the expansions for cash to support the game and have access from day 1.
    Agreed I started with Free to play earning content in game for couple years before I decided that I would spend on the game.

    I think Sands, Gainthold & Vale were the first content purchased entirely from favor rewards.

    I remember getting a leveling sigil which was my first goal then taking a break for a while to continue playing a different game coming back after Sigil was removed.
    Last edited by Oxarhamar; 04-15-2021 at 05:03 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    Bad examples that surely don’t meet the criteria of free account earning points and getting farther from the point.

    WOW requires subscription to earn so that is not even close.
    I know factually you can earn points on a completely free account in LoTRO (which doesn't count . .ok), CO, STO, and SWTOR. But yes, this is a tangent.

    My main point is that like many other more popular and profitable online games (some of which are MMOs), DDO has a coin shop and lets you spend coins in it you either buy for cash or earn playing the game. The reason SSG, and so many other companies, do that is that it works. It's a highly effective strategy for monetizing customers. They don't do it out of the generosity of their hearts.

    Your scenario where they decide to make Feywild cash only Forever and suddenly everyone that is used to buying coins to pay for content will decide to just break down and buy it for cash is not very likely. It will work for some players, but in general cutting off an income stream mainly tends to just cut off that income stream. I personally will never buy Feywild for cash, and I would be very upset if it turns out I will never be able to get it with the coins I have paid for.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 04-15-2021 at 06:47 PM.

  7. #47
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfernbottom View Post
    I know factually you can earn points on a completely free account in LoTRO (which doesn't count . .ok), CO, STO, and SWTOR. But yes, this is a tangent.

    My main point is that like many other more popular and profitable online games (some of which are MMOs), DDO has a coin shop and lets you spend coins in it you either buy for cash or earn playing the game. The reason SSG, and so many other companies, do that is that it works. It's a highly effective strategy for monetizing customers. They don't do it out of the generosity of their hearts.

    Your scenario where they decide to make Feywild cash only Forever and suddenly everyone that is used to buying coins to pay for content will decide to just break down and buy it for cash is not very likely. It will work for some players, but in general cutting off an income stream mainly tends to just cut off that income stream. I personally will never buy Feywild for cash, and I would be very upset if it turns out I will never be able to get it with the coins I have paid for.
    That scenario is not mine best to check who floated that speculation in the thread

    I’ve been saying that it will likely be in the points store when it is no longer the newest content.

    From earlier in this thread


    [QUOTE=Oxarhamar;
    Feywild being locked to market is pure speculation with time it will most likely be in the points store likely after it is no longer the newest content.[/QUOTE]

    I highly doubt that speculation as there has been no indication that this would be the case other than by who started that rumor.
    Last edited by Oxarhamar; 04-15-2021 at 06:53 PM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    That scenario is not mine best to check who floated that speculation in the thread

    I’ve been saying that it will likely be in the points store when it is no longer the newest content.

    From earlier in this thread




    I highly doubt that speculation as there has been no indication that this would be the case other than by who started that rumor.
    Well that at least we agree on. I'm sure soon after the current HC it will go on sale for points. I also agree that a temporary embargo is a good idea. It gets a nice cash infusion from the "must play new thing now!" crowd.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 04-15-2021 at 07:02 PM.

  9. #49
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfernbottom View Post
    Well that at least we agree on. I'm sure soon after the current HC it will go on sale for points.
    I am glad we came to an understanding rather than continuing the tangent at least

    I do think it will be after Fey is no longer newest content it may come after HC

    really there’s no knowning without the Dev comment & they don’t really seam to want to touch on that there’s been a number of these threads questioning it and they haven’t touched it yet.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfernbottom View Post
    I tend to buy them in increments of about 5000. 1600 wouldn't last me very long, when I'm actually spending them. Just one race would eat up almost all of that if it's not on sale. To have even earned that much, I also speculate that you play much more than an average player. I personally might earn that many "free" points in a year if I'm not subbed.

    That new server rate also ramps down pretty quickly. It might make sense for SSG to not have that rate enabled every time the re-open hardcore. Regardless, you aren't going to be earning them that fast for very long.

    Edit: Do you know why so many companies have "funny money" points you can only use in their shop for a specific game? It's because it makes it harder for players to keep track of what they spend. It also gives developers the ability to claim that their game is completely free to play. Of course we all know that the vast majority of players will never have the spare time or patience to grind out the points they need for everything the want once they become really invested. Obviously a few players will, they will even see it as a fun challenge. However those are a vanishingly small proportion of the payer base. Most players will either never get invested and quickly walk away after trying a game, or will spend money. The system works very well.

    The thousands of online games that use this model don't follow it because the developers are stupid or don't like money. It's an effective advertising, recruitment and monetization tactic.

    If SSG ever weakens the value of coins to the point that most players would never consider buying them, it will absolutely butcher their revenue eventually. Players invested enough to pay for coins are a rare commodity. You don't **** them off by changing the rules on what they can be used for.
    The funny money that people blow here and there without realizing it should be for pots, boxes, cakes, tomes, etc...

    The game itself should be paid for. For those who want to stomp their feet and hold their breath about it, who cares? If those type of people weren't going to spend money anyway, who cares if they get upset and leave.


    The game needs people who are gonna real money, not point miners to get a game for free. It sounds harsh to some but it really isn't. If you cant afford the game it would be better if you aren't here. Player's take up storage and bandwidth, they are simply a burden if SSG isn't making money on them.

  11. #51
    Community Member Kalindush's Avatar
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    If the game becomes too unfriendly to Freemium Players, they will leave.

    Do you think the game servers are empty now? Take the game from them and see what happens.

    FFXIV and WoW relies on subscriptions because they can. But they're the exceptions. Most MMOs targets whales to be successful, not asking a substancial amount from f2p players.

    And of course, many of these practices to target whales are unethical at least. DDO doesn't relies on such low-handed techniques. However, this is market and the market have no heart. DDO have less money for doing the right thing, even if it gives less revenue.

    Do you approve DDO ethical methods? Spend your money here as your heart content, but do not shun away f2p players. They may be too many to afford lose them right now. Not even a whale wants to spend a dime in a nearly empty and dead game.

    If even so, you think DDO should think as a standard business model, perhaps you should ask the devs for loot boxes.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalindush View Post
    If the game becomes too unfriendly to Freemium Players, they will leave.

    Do you think the game servers are empty now? Take the game from them and see what happens.

    FFXIV and WoW relies on subscriptions because they can. But they're the exceptions. Most MMOs targets whales to be successful, not asking a substancial amount from f2p players.

    And of course, many of these practices to target whales are unethical at least. DDO doesn't relies on such low-handed techniques. However, this is market and the market have no heart. DDO have less money for doing the right thing, even if it gives less revenue.

    Do you approve DDO ethical methods? Spend your money here as your heart content, but do not shun away f2p players. They may be too many to afford lose them right now. Not even a whale wants to spend a dime in a nearly empty and dead game.

    If even so, you think DDO should think as a standard business model, perhaps you should ask the devs for loot boxes.
    Freemium should mean you bought the packs and don't subscribe. Free Players should get the older content and be able to buy SOME of the pack jut not recent ones or large expaansions.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justicesfury View Post
    The funny money that people blow here and there without realizing it should be for pots, boxes, cakes, tomes, etc...

    The game itself should be paid for. For those who want to stomp their feet and hold their breath about it, who cares? If those type of people weren't going to spend money anyway, who cares if they get upset and leave.


    The game needs people who are gonna real money, not point miners to get a game for free. It sounds harsh to some but it really isn't. If you cant afford the game it would be better if you aren't here. Player's take up storage and bandwidth, they are simply a burden if SSG isn't making money on them.
    Whether you choose to believe it or not, coin shops are extremely profitable for these types of games. Anything that makes it less likely for players to spend coins (and thus want to spend money for more coins directly, or sub to get coins) in that shop would be terrible for the financial future of this game. No longer selling new content through the coin shop would gut the income of this game in the long term.

    The current embargo system works well at getting money out of players like you up front, and also gets money out of additional players that prefer to buy coins later down the road (if in no other way then depleting their coins reserves so they are more likely to buy coins the next time they go on sale). A good monetization system gets money out of as many players as humanly possible.

    SSG didn't arrive at the current financial model of this game out of stupidity or generosity.

  14. #54
    Community Member ShifterThePirate's Avatar
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    At this point it wouldn't even surprise me if they just forgot to release it in the ingame store for DDO points around the anniversary

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShifterThePirate View Post
    At this point it wouldn't even surprise me if they just forgot to release it in the ingame store for DDO points around the anniversary
    The game needs to make more money. Feywild should NEVER be free.

    I listened to the arguments about being pro pay by using points, but lets face it people farm points. I am now at 2000 DDO points in less that 2 weeks on Hardcore season 4. I am not even trying to farm. That is just from playing the event. If I was trying to farm points I could probably have more. Points aren't money. Point farmers bring in no money. Points should be for fun and adds like pots and shards. Not a way to get it all for free. Free to play is about trying the game for free, not sleeping on a bench somewhere in the Harbor. It is loitering.

    Its time people pay for the packs. The more people on a server, the slower the game is. Why slow down the game for people who don't pay? That's just dead weight.

    BEFORE you write your scathing responses about how much you spent over the years, the benefits for the free to play model and whatever other excuse about wanting things for points so you can farm them....Take a breath. We live in the real world. Things aren't just free. For those of you who want to tell everyone about the 1000s you spent: Another 40 Dollars wont kill you. Without money the game cant continue.

    This is just reality. Nothing more, nothing less.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justicesfury View Post
    BEFORE you write your scathing responses about how much you spent over the years, the benefits for the free to play model and whatever other excuse about wanting things for points so you can farm them....Take a breath. We live in the real world. Things aren't just free. For those of you who want to tell everyone about the 1000s you spent: Another 40 Dollars wont kill you. Without money the game cant continue.

    This is just reality. Nothing more, nothing less.
    This will NOT be a scathing response about how much I have spent in the past, but about how much I cannot spend NOW. They have a market that DOES NOT work for everyone right now. I live in the US, I can still buy points, my credit cards work everywhere else, BUT NOT IN THE DDO MARKET. I have tried multiple times over the last 4 months and submitted a ticket to customer service and STILL cannot buy Feywild.

    Until this issue with the "new and improved" market are resolved, this should not even be an argument right now.

    The ONLY way I can support the game I love right now IS through buying points, but the transaction is not complete until I spend them, so I am anxiously awaiting Feywild in the store.

    EDIT: And I am extremely sad that I cannot get the bonus items from the Ultimate Fan Bundle. Maybe have some of those available through points? Hint, hint to the powers that be....

    EDIT2: And before anyone asks, I did spend the full 260 dollars I would have spent (and would still spend again if they could fix my issue) on Feywild for points (well actually 240 I guess but I will probably buy another 60 pack when Feywild DOES go on sale in the store) on the 2 accounts I would have bought it for.
    Last edited by BDog77; 04-17-2021 at 09:15 PM.

  17. #57
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    this thread has kinda derailed.

    I guess stuff will hit the coin store when it does.
    SSG, being a professional gaming company will likely choose the
    most profitable choice ... whatever that is.

    I originally was 'fishing' to see if a developer was willing to
    say when it will hit. Guess not.
    and that is fine.

    See you all in HCL
    When this game is gone, I will not cry a single tear. It is just part of the circle of life.

  18. #58
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    this thread has kinda derailed.

    I guess stuff will hit the coin store when it does.
    SSG, being a professional gaming company will likely choose the
    most profitable choice ... whatever that is.

    I originally was 'fishing' to see if a developer was willing to
    say when it will hit. Guess not.
    and that is fine.

    See you all in HCL
    If they haven’t put it in the points store why would they say when it will be that would reduce the chance of holdouts purchasing from the market because, they can plan better to buy with points.

    You want to wait then wait doubt that they will tell you how long you will be waiting until it hits the store.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    this thread has kinda derailed.

    I guess stuff will hit the coin store when it does.
    SSG, being a professional gaming company will likely choose the
    most profitable choice ... whatever that is.

    I originally was 'fishing' to see if a developer was willing to
    say when it will hit. Guess not.
    and that is fine.

    See you all in HCL
    Thread is right on point. You wanted to know when you could get a large expansion pack for free (with farmed points) and you were given overwhelming opinions on your post. What you were fishing for was your freebie.

    HCL season 4 is for free, so just enjoy that and be happy you have it for free.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDog77 View Post
    This will NOT be a scathing response about how much I have spent in the past, but about how much I cannot spend NOW. They have a market that DOES NOT work for everyone right now. I live in the US, I can still buy points, my credit cards work everywhere else, BUT NOT IN THE DDO MARKET. I have tried multiple times over the last 4 months and submitted a ticket to customer service and STILL cannot buy Feywild.

    Until this issue with the "new and improved" market are resolved, this should not even be an argument right now.

    The ONLY way I can support the game I love right now IS through buying points, but the transaction is not complete until I spend them, so I am anxiously awaiting Feywild in the store.

    EDIT: And I am extremely sad that I cannot get the bonus items from the Ultimate Fan Bundle. Maybe have some of those available through points? Hint, hint to the powers that be....

    EDIT2: And before anyone asks, I did spend the full 260 dollars I would have spent (and would still spend again if they could fix my issue) on Feywild for points (well actually 240 I guess but I will probably buy another 60 pack when Feywild DOES go on sale in the store) on the 2 accounts I would have bought it for.
    The market not working for everyone is not part of the OP. The OP is about a person wanting to know when they are going to get get their freebie.

    That being said, it is ridiculous that SSG has dropped the ball on E commerce and getting their own market sites to work. This is about the worst thing a company can do to itself and it is just another poor decision on their part not to correct the issue.

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