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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annex View Post

    As for making Expansions cash only, if I were in change of sales, I would have done that a long time ago. As a player, I hope we continue to get Expansions for Game Shop Points.
    This is a double-edged sword though. My purchases of points for alt-accounts would largely end if content was not periodically made available in the coins shop. I mean they're going to get the money from me one way or the other but I know for a fact they get more of it if I am buying points than if I am shelling out cash in the market.

    A cash purchase of an x-pac is a one-time thing. Points purchases on double bonus sales, and occasionally at normal rates, happen all the time. The payoff for those points purchases are when an Iconic I want or a content pack I want hits the store. I likely would not buy the points if I didn't know that hard assets for the accounts in question would show up sooner or later. I spend points on other things if they are in the account but I don't buy points for those things. I buy points for content.

  2. #22
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    The last two expansions were only available for points after a new numbered update and new adventure pack AFAIR. This update is taking longer because the raid was postponed and there are a lot of combat revamps. So when Update 49 with a new pack hits, maybe Feywild will be in the store.

  3. #23
    Community Member darkniteyogi's Avatar
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    Default Not until the Feyfark Illusionist Nerf

    They can't until the nerf to Greater Color Spray.

  4. #24
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    So, SSG’s marketing team is about as functional as their customer service team. Honestly, I’ve yet to see any indication that whoever is managing their marketing has ever taken an actual marketing class.

    I mean, the steady loss of potential sales here from sheer negligence on their end is mind-boggling, but I guess that’s what happens when you decide to focus only on a select few whale pods and ignore everything else in the ocean.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    to be honest, most of the folks willing to buy the bundles already have.
    might be one or two more out there but that is about it.

    If they plan on releasing it to the coin store, there really is not much of a point
    of waiting longer.
    If people knew it was never hitting the store, they would buy it.

    They should start making some stuff that you can never buy for points so they can make more money.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justicesfury View Post
    If people knew it was never hitting the store, they would buy it.
    The day they decide to limit how I am allowed to spend money on their content is the day I walk forever. I buy some packs if I like the bonus content, but for the most part I prefer to buy them with coins. Coins can be used to buy both content and convenience items, they are a better value to me.

    At the same time, I sure as hell don't like them enough to buy them just to get tomes and other items out of the store. If they suddenly decide my coins can't be used to buy content, I am going to be very ****ed.

    Now if they really want me to buy more packs directly, all they need to do is add enough value to them that it makes sense to buy them that way.

  7. #27
    Community Member Dejvid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justicesfury View Post
    If people knew it was never hitting the store, they would buy it.

    They should start making some stuff that you can never buy for points so they can make more money.
    they removed one of two content drops from vip sub in lotro and soon in ddo, and i wont bother subbing ever again. sub lost basically half its value for me but costs the same.
    if my bought store points (directly, or indirectly via sub) cannot buy content anymore, because its not good money, even though its the same money, then i simply wont buy content anymore. at all. ddo has enough content already, and the rebirth train only requires a select few quests anyways. new content not needed. (dont get me wrong, i love new stuff, but be honest, theres lots of content that many players simply ignore while they tr etc. and that is basically this games endgame/loop)

    they already make stuff that you can only buy for money, and its in the collectors and ultimate fan bundles (or legendary editions before those). which i was, for the record, always buying until recently. i was always buying those just to have the useless henchmen, virtual paperweights.

    if ddo starts doing expansions like, say wow, ff14, gw2 etc, where you can only buy them for money, then ssg has to step up their game quite frankly put. in terms of quality, and quantity. and i dont see this happening.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justicesfury View Post
    If people knew it was never hitting the store, they would buy it.

    They should start making some stuff that you can never buy for points so they can make more money.
    They would need to make their new market work for everyone. I still cannot purchase anything through it.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justicesfury View Post
    If people knew it was never hitting the store, they would buy it.

    They should start making some stuff that you can never buy for points so they can make more money.
    This is basically nonsensical.

    Many points sales would be forestalled if it became clear that the big ticket content items were cash only. I'll guarantee you they make more money from points sales than from x-pacs and to do anything that devalues points would be insane.

  10. #30
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    In the past I have always bought the biggest and best expansion and had the money to buy the uber Feywild expansion for my main and the middle pack for an alt account. The packs were so lack lustre (imho) that my money stayed in the bank and I will pick Feywild up in the coin store, if they don't put it in the coin store then it will always stay a mystery to me.

  11. #31
    Community Member Annex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoobTheProud View Post
    This is a double-edged sword though. My purchases of points for alt-accounts would largely end if content was not periodically made available in the coins shop. I mean they're going to get the money from me one way or the other but I know for a fact they get more of it if I am buying points than if I am shelling out cash in the market.

    A cash purchase of an x-pac is a one-time thing. Points purchases on double bonus sales, and occasionally at normal rates, happen all the time. The payoff for those points purchases are when an Iconic I want or a content pack I want hits the store. I likely would not buy the points if I didn't know that hard assets for the accounts in question would show up sooner or later. I spend points on other things if they are in the account but I don't buy points for those things. I buy points for content.
    KoobTheProud, you make a very valid argument. In rebuttal, I asset that a point exists at which purchasing an Expansion plus Game Shop Points for cash exactly equals purchasing Game Shop Points for cash and using some of those points to purchase an Expansion. If that point is found, people like you and I would easily transition to cash only Expansions. People who purchase everything with points accrued through game play would feel the negative impact. At various points in my DDO history, that would have included me.

    .....

    With regards Expansion value, I have written many forum posts encouraging the people at Standing Stone Games to make Expansion upgrades a better value and more interesting. However, I readily acknowledge that I am a cheapskate and require more value form my money than others require.

    .....

    In most cases, I feel pretty strongly when I make a suggestion. With regards making Expansions cash only, I admit a goodly amount of uncertainty. I cannot see the books or analyze purchasing trends. I can only play armchair Sales Manager. While I have offered direct and indirect criticism of the Sales Manager on more than one occasion, I truly wish that person great success. In the end, I can only offer my personal opinion on good values, bad values, good products, and bad products. He or she must sort through all player opinions, look at the sales numbers, look at offerings from competitors, realistically assess developer resources, and act accordingly. It is not an easy job.
    Sophie the Cat Burglar - Creator, Dreamer, Explorer - Happy yet Sad - Seeker of Beauty and Wonder
    I suppose I am playing for now. I wish you all many happy adventures!

  12. #32
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    The funny thing about 'digital' goods.
    Since copies can be created out of thin air,
    each copy has no real value by itself.

    Can't resell it and if standing stone wanted to make a
    million copies they can and the cost does not increase
    past what it originally cost to make.

    So there is only one consolidated value.
    The total amount of profit generated.

    As more players stop buying (they already got it)
    the idea that keeping it cash only will not be the
    most profitable choice.

    The most profitable is what they have always done.

    1st CASH
    2nd Coin (some of it brings in cash because not everyone has spare coin)
    3rd Discount and sales.

    in that order.

    I am curious when they will switch from step 1 to step 2
    Because step 2 is generally my purchase point.
    When this game is gone, I will not cry a single tear. It is just part of the circle of life.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    The funny thing about 'digital' goods.
    Since copies can be created out of thin air,
    each copy has no real value by itself.

    Can't resell it and if standing stone wanted to make a
    million copies they can and the cost does not increase
    past what it originally cost to make.

    So there is only one consolidated value.
    The total amount of profit generated.

    As more players stop buying (they already got it)
    the idea that keeping it cash only will not be the
    most profitable choice.

    The most profitable is what they have always done.

    1st CASH
    2nd Coin (some of it brings in cash because not everyone has spare coin)
    3rd Discount and sales.

    in that order.

    I am curious when they will switch from step 1 to step 2
    Because step 2 is generally my purchase point.
    You are discounting the value of the work of the content creators. If you want to play you should pay. Its pure and simple. The F2P is a gimmick, with the ultimate goal being of the publisher being to get paid for their work. Feywild is the latest DDO pack you should be buying it with real money, not promotional points they give you simply for playing.

  14. #34
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justicesfury View Post
    You are discounting the value of the work of the content creators. If you want to play you should pay. Its pure and simple. The F2P is a gimmick, with the ultimate goal being of the publisher being to get paid for their work. Feywild is the latest DDO pack you should be buying it with real money, not promotional points they give you simply for playing.
    This

    Also ifn choosing to wait to use points then wait.

    Don't want to wait then pay to play.
    Last edited by Oxarhamar; 04-15-2021 at 09:11 AM.

  15. #35
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
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    Some folks forget that store coins represent real money 'to a point'

    MOST of the coin in the system is generated from subscriptions.
    The coin earned from favor is not a lot.

    so coin is cash flow

    Subscription coin - makes cash 'for the subscriptions'
    Coin purchased directly (usually for buffs and such) - makes cash
    Coin earned with favor (small amount of the supply) - does not make cash.

    The only thing keeping folks buying coin or paying for a subscription is
    making coin worth stuff. If you attempt to make everything cash only,
    you kill subscriptions (game's biggest cash cow).

    So when folks want stuff to be moved to the coin store, it will still
    make money for the company. If you start to neglect the in game coin system
    it stops making money.
    When this game is gone, I will not cry a single tear. It is just part of the circle of life.

  16. #36
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    Some folks forget that store coins represent real money 'to a point'

    MOST of the coin in the system is generated from subscriptions.
    The coin earned from favor is not a lot.

    so coin is cash flow

    Subscription coin - makes cash 'for the subscriptions'
    Coin purchased directly (usually for buffs and such) - makes cash
    Coin earned with favor (small amount of the supply) - does not make cash.

    The only thing keeping folks buying coin or paying for a subscription is
    making coin worth stuff. If you attempt to make everything cash only,
    you kill subscriptions (game's biggest cash cow).

    So when folks want stuff to be moved to the coin store, it will still
    make money for the company. If you start to neglect the in game coin system
    it stops making money.

    There has been zero indication that this will not go to points when it does you can buy it with points.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    Some folks forget that store coins represent real money 'to a point'

    MOST of the coin in the system is generated from subscriptions.
    The coin earned from favor is not a lot.

    so coin is cash flow

    Subscription coin - makes cash 'for the subscriptions'
    Coin purchased directly (usually for buffs and such) - makes cash
    Coin earned with favor (small amount of the supply) - does not make cash.

    The only thing keeping folks buying coin or paying for a subscription is
    making coin worth stuff. If you attempt to make everything cash only,
    you kill subscriptions (game's biggest cash cow).

    So when folks want stuff to be moved to the coin store, it will still
    make money for the company. If you start to neglect the in game coin system
    it stops making money.
    In a week of playing on HC season 4 I have generated about 1600 DDO points. Getting points for free in game is easy HC server this season is free to all. So lets face it, for points can be for free very fast. IF you can buy your points you can buy the pack. Its cheaper to buy the pack than buy the points. So it sounds like your a looking to point farm a free pack.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Justicesfury View Post
    In a week of playing on HC season 4 I have generated about 1600 DDO points. Getting points for free in game is easy HC server this season is free to all. So lets face it, for points can be for free very fast. IF you can buy your points you can buy the pack. Its cheaper to buy the pack than buy the points. So it sounds like your a looking to point farm a free pack.
    I tend to buy them in increments of about 5000. 1600 wouldn't last me very long, when I'm actually spending them. Just one race would eat up almost all of that if it's not on sale. To have even earned that much, I also speculate that you play much more than an average player. I personally might earn that many "free" points in a year if I'm not subbed.

    That new server rate also ramps down pretty quickly. It might make sense for SSG to not have that rate enabled every time the re-open hardcore. Regardless, you aren't going to be earning them that fast for very long.

    Edit: Do you know why so many companies have "funny money" points you can only use in their shop for a specific game? It's because it makes it harder for players to keep track of what they spend. It also gives developers the ability to claim that their game is completely free to play. Of course we all know that the vast majority of players will never have the spare time or patience to grind out the points they need for everything the want once they become really invested. Obviously a few players will, they will even see it as a fun challenge. However those are a vanishingly small proportion of the payer base. Most players will either never get invested and quickly walk away after trying a game, or will spend money. The system works very well.

    The thousands of online games that use this model don't follow it because the developers are stupid or don't like money. It's an effective advertising, recruitment and monetization tactic.

    If SSG ever weakens the value of coins to the point that most players would never consider buying them, it will absolutely butcher their revenue eventually. Players invested enough to pay for coins are a rare commodity. You don't **** them off by changing the rules on what they can be used for.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 04-15-2021 at 03:07 PM.

  19. #39
    Community Member Oxarhamar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yfernbottom View Post
    I tend to buy them in increments of about 5000. 1600 wouldn't last me very long, when I'm actually spending them. Just one race would eat up almost all of that if it's not on sale. To have even earned that much, I also speculate that you play much more than an average player. I personally might earn that many "free" points in a year if I'm not subbed.

    That new server rate also ramps down pretty quickly. It might make sense for SSG to not have that rate enabled every time the re-open hardcore. Regardless, you aren't going to be earning them that fast for very long.

    Edit: Do you know why so many companies have "funny money" points you can only use in their shop for a specific game? It's because it makes it harder for players to keep track of what they spend. It also gives developers the ability to claim that their game is completely free to play. Of course we all know that the vast majority of players will never have the spare time or patience to grind out the points they need for everything the want once they become really invested. A few players will of course, they will even see it as a fun challenge. However those are a vanishingly small proportion of the payer base. Most players will either never get invested and quikcly walk away after trying a game, or will spend money. The system works very well.

    The thousands of online games that use this model don't follow it because the developers are stupid or don't like money. It's an effective advertising, recruitment and monetization tactic.

    If SSG ever weakens the value of coins to the point that most players would never consider buying them, it will absolutely butcher their revenue eventually. Players invested enough to pay for coins are a rare commodity. You don't **** them off by changing the rules on what they can be used for.
    There has long been content that is only purchasable from the market & not for points.

    Free to play is just that and then there is premium content which DDO has one a system where free to play can earn premium content playing for free I don’t know of another MMO that rewards you with so called “funny money” for playing.

    Feywild is still the newest content despite having been out for some time it wasn’t completely released until the Raid went live I’d wager that Feywild will likely go to points some time after newer content is released.

    Even if certain content is locked behind market as is the case now points still have value for much more content purshable in the in game store that can’t be purchased from the market directly.

    Feywild being locked to market is pure speculation with time it will most likely be in the points store likely after it is no longer the newest content.
    Last edited by Oxarhamar; 04-15-2021 at 03:15 PM.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxarhamar View Post
    I don’t know of another MMO that rewards you with so called “funny money” for playing.
    LoTRO, STO, Neverwinter Nights, Champions Online, Guild Wars 2, and SWTOR . . .off the top of my head. If I were willing to google it I am sure there are a lot more. EQ, EQ II, and ESO all also give you a stipend with your sub or allow you to buy them directly. WoW and EVE also let you pay for funny money using in game currency that you can then use to pay for sub-time. But yeah, those are all pretty obscure . . .

    There is a good reason why so many games have systems that blur the line between straight up cash and their virtual currency. It is not the kindness of their hearts.
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 04-15-2021 at 03:37 PM.

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