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  1. #421
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    our explicit goal is to reduce the amount of procs that are processed
    If we're decreasing the number of procs then at least for some things you can simply increase their duration. (i.e. If we're applying vulnerability/nerve venom/paralyze half as often, then you just make it last twice as long.)
    For things that don't have durations, we'll just have to make them better in other ways. (i.e increased hp range and damage for vorpal, increased fort/AC reduction for Destruction, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    build out new fun little triple-strike and quadruple-strike icons
    So, feedback like this is HUGE. Great stuff.
    The other thing I noticed on Lam was that none of the additional damage numbers had icons anymore. So, I couldn't tell which number was sneak damage, what was imbue damage (electric), what was my bow's inherent fire damage, and what was from my Scion feat (sonic damage). We *definitely* need feedback for those sorts of things too.
    Personally, I feel like changing color based on damage type might be easier than throwing up additional icons on the screen, but anything is better than nothing. (as an example, orange text for fire damage with a purple border if it's boosted by vulnerability)


    Granted, I'm sure all of this stuff is no small task but it's all a step in the right direction.
    ...and speaking of going in the right direction...
    Performance on Lam was absolutely atrocious. What good is a test server if it does not offer you representative data? If Lamannia is really supposed to be a test server (a place where you can gather realistic/useful metrics) then it needs to be WAYYYY closer to live than it currently is. If Lam is really just intended to be a sandbox server and not really a test environment, then I guess it is currently sufficient. After playing around on Lam last night for the first time in a long time, I was left feeling like my time spent there was only marginally useful at best.
    That's my 2 cents anyway.

  2. #422
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    Quote Originally Posted by ice584 View Post
    The other thing I noticed on Lam was that none of the additional damage numbers had icons anymore. So, I couldn't tell which number was sneak damage, what was imbue damage (electric), what was my bow's inherent fire damage, and what was from my Scion feat (sonic damage). We *definitely* need feedback for those sorts of things too.
    Ah, yes, this was definitely buggy this go around. We dedicated some time to redoing the floaty text portion of damage feedback and were able to get the multi-hit icon to appear next to the element/type of damage instead of replacing it entirely. This also means that important visual feedback such as Point Blank Shot will no longer be lost by the multi-hit icon as well.

    Here's how it will look when U49 hits live:

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  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by DjangoKeys View Post
    Trying to remove a vital part of a build because “that one skill shouldn’t be the only thing holding them up,” says exponentially more about self-inflicted issues with poor game design than it does anything else.
    So, yes, the devs have made bad decisions in the past (often). "self-inflicted issues with poor game design", absolutely.

    But given that those mistakes already happened, are you going to be upset that they're at least trying to correct some of it sometimes?

    Sure, not making the mistakes in the first place would have been even better, but nuke-the-mistake-from-orbit is still better than just ignoring the mistakes.

  4. #424
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Ah, yes, this was definitely buggy this go around. We dedicated some time to redoing the floaty text portion of damage feedback and were able to get the multi-hit icon to appear next to the element/type of damage instead of replacing it entirely. This also means that important visual feedback such as Point Blank Shot will no longer be lost by the multi-hit icon as well.

    Here's how it will look when U49 hits live:

    The problem which I believe was mentioned on a live stream at ddocast is that weapon effects like fiery become less appealing. The same with Sentience Essence Filigree sets and Destiny Feats Harbinger of Chaos and Embodiment of Law that cost a feat slot. The doublestrike in the image lost 18 damage compared to before the changes which is nearly 15% damage loss. At higher levels it will not make much difference as most of those type effects are negligible compare to heroic levels..

  5. #425
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuneyMunster View Post
    The problem which I believe was mentioned on a live stream at ddocast is that weapon effects like fiery become less appealing. The same with Sentience Essence Filigree sets and Destiny Feats Harbinger of Chaos and Embodiment of Law that cost a feat slot. The doublestrike in the image lost 18 damage compared to before the changes which is nearly 15% damage loss. At higher levels it will not make much difference as most of those type effects are negligible compare to heroic levels..
    From the OP, effects that deal damage will deal double their damage on a doublestrike or doubleshot, and triple on a tripleshot, etc. The screenshot above happens to have rolled low on its doublestrike and high on its regular hits, which in retrospect makes it a confusing image to share.

    With that in mind, here is a different screenshot, showing the new auxiliary icon that no longer replaces a "typed" main damage hit, as well as Sneak Dice and a weapon on-hit effect doing their correct amount of increased damage. Hope this one is a little clearer!

    Last edited by Lynnabel; 04-15-2021 at 05:11 PM.
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  6. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post

    Math!!!! 87/2 = 43.5 So we do damage in the decimal points! It's just not visible.

  7. #427
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    How are you handling assassination?

    Currently, I can assassinate multiple targets. Two is a guarantee. I used to be able to get three sometimes, but maybe that was longer ago than I think.

    Next, TWF is about procs. Equipping two weapons with lots of procs on each and using speed instead of damage boost is my whole mode of operation. Everything I am reading here says that my procs will happen less. Am I reading this wrong?
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  8. #428
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeleron View Post
    Math!!!! 87/2 = 43.5 So we do damage in the decimal points! It's just not visible.
    We also have somebody like you every single time they give double mysterious remnants for a weekend. :P

    The damage is likely rolled twice and added rather than simply doubled.
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  9. #429
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    How are you handling assassination?

    Currently, I can assassinate multiple targets. Two is a guarantee. I used to be able to get three sometimes, but maybe that was longer ago than I think.

    Next, TWF is about procs. Equipping two weapons with lots of procs on each and using speed instead of damage boost is my whole mode of operation. Everything I am reading here says that my procs will happen less. Am I reading this wrong?
    I think the triple either never existed or hasn't been around for a long time. I've heard this claim a lot of times but never been able to reproduce it. Double assassinate is hard coded to strike twice. You can still get double assassinate on a staff and was better to use due to having longer reach compared to TWF before they changed a while ago. Before then those using TWF had to be so close to the target or they wont get off hand attack, while at the same time more likely get hit with cleave type attacks. You could argue that weapons like Greatsword and Greataxe are reach weapons, but not in D&D. Weapons like Glaives and Fauchard are reach weapons that can be used in the second rank instead of first rank, but these are not available in DDO.

  10. #430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lencrennis View Post
    We also have somebody like you every single time they give double mysterious remnants for a weekend. :P

    The damage is likely rolled twice and added rather than simply doubled.
    They specifically said that the damage number was doubled rather than rolled twice. Thats pretty much the idea - getting fewer attacks by multiplication.

  11. #431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeleron View Post
    Math!!!! 87/2 = 43.5 So we do damage in the decimal points! It's just not visible.
    I assume it has to do with +.5W multipliers

  12. #432
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    Only seeing a lot of talk about combat changes to improve game performance, but what about non combat situations, like chain abundant stepping anywhere always crunches to a stutter. It's like the game can't handle the distance change over time
    Last edited by Eme; 04-16-2021 at 06:39 PM.

  13. #433
    Community Member SpiderPig's Avatar
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    If these "fixes" SSG introduce, doesn't solve the lag issues, will they roll back the changes . I don't personally have a non-damage proc build (melee or ranged), but I sympathize with players who have farmed gear specifically for these build and these changes will leave them un-playable. Will these builds get compensations for the, up to years, of gear farming? Some players haven't designed their build for damage, but for CC or insta-kill etc, so more damage is useless for these builds.

    Of note these screen shots do not show the first shot missing and second hitting, so under the new system if you miss with your attack to bad. Old system at least gives you a chance to hit again.

  14. #434
    Community Member Seph1roth5's Avatar
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    Lol you think if this has no effect on lag they're going to revert to the old system of doublestrike?
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  15. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    We understand that this change will carry a side-effect of reducing the effectiveness of non-damage procs across the board. However, we believe that the overall benefits of this pass will outweigh these side-effects, and will keep an eye on non-damage procs in the near future to ensure this does not have adverse effects on the player experience. We would also like to invite you to copy over to Lamannia and test out your rotation with these changes so you can better gauge the effectiveness of what's been changed. It's very important that these kinds of changes are put through their paces not just by us but by the players, and we want to iron out any rough edges ASAP so we can improve game performance.
    So, any news on all those debuffs that stack to 20, 30 or what ever their number is and gets raised by one on each hit but tick down once every 3 secs or so?
    Or what about life stealing? Will that be 3d3+3 on a crit now?
    Or simple stat drainage effects or even vampirism?

  16. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by MJtheKing View Post
    I assume it has to do with +.5W multipliers
    Or a second effect like alacrity pushing the number up?

  17. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    So, any news on all those debuffs that stack to 20, 30 or what ever their number is and gets raised by one on each hit but tick down once every 3 secs or so?
    Or what about life stealing? Will that be 3d3+3 on a crit now?
    Or simple stat drainage effects or even vampirism?
    Things that deal bonus damage, or heal, or deal stat damage - if there's a number, it's multiplied out accordingly. So yes, Stat Damage and Vampirism, and no, not Negative Levels or stackable Debuffs.
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  18. #438
    Community Member FengXian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Things that deal bonus damage, or heal, or deal stat damage - if there's a number, it's multiplied out accordingly. So yes, Stat Damage and Vampirism, and no, not Negative Levels or stackable Debuffs.
    So pretty big nerf to Fetters weapons, AA electric arrows, destruction etc..as well.

    Guys didn't this deserve an update of its own given the magnitude of the changes?

    Also, can you sneak in some buffs to the nerfed bows? :P
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  19. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak01 View Post
    So, yes, the devs have made bad decisions in the past (often). "self-inflicted issues with poor game design", absolutely.

    But given that those mistakes already happened, are you going to be upset that they're at least trying to correct some of it sometimes?

    Sure, not making the mistakes in the first place would have been even better, but nuke-the-mistake-from-orbit is still better than just ignoring the mistakes.
    No. First, “trying to correct” like their doing and “correcting” are two completely different things. These changes are essentially SSG throwing a dart at a board while blindfolded. They weren’t even smart enough to come up with this themselves, because those former Turbine hacks they cried to for help came up with those targets. Honestly, the nuke the mistakes from orbit approach that they’re taking now is exactly as droolingly stupid as allowing their mistakes to build up in the first place.

    Both are signs of decisions being made by people who really shouldn’t be making those decisions in the first place.

  20. #440
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Things that deal bonus damage, or heal, or deal stat damage - if there's a number, it's multiplied out accordingly. So yes, Stat Damage and Vampirism, and no, not Negative Levels or stackable Debuffs.
    So if there's a number it's sometimes multiplied out accordingly. Is there a balance reason why you're leaving some things out?

    You said before you've considered non-damage effects. Fine, evidently, you've considered them, and decided they need to be nerfed. But why? All explanations have been about performance, but this, and taking away multi-hit saves, is clearly a gameplay balance decision.

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