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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U49 Preview 1: Bow Combat Style Revamp

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    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Hey! So, now that we're moving into Update 49, it's time to take a look at the Bow Combat Style Changes. This is a complicated pass with a lot of moving parts, so we wanted to walk through the reasoning behind things before listing the full itemized list of changes at the bottom. Here's what's changing and why.

    For Update 49, we're looking at revamping the Bow combat style. For a long time, Bows have been difficult to balance on our end, and as a result have either been extremely strong relative to other builds or (as is the case now) been trailing behind a lot of other builds. We're aiming to rebuild the structure of the combat style, fix some bugs, and ultimately make the Bow combat style easier to balance and stronger overall.

    As a note: As we've mentioned before, there is a Bow-themed Universal Enhancement Tree (Horizon Walker) scheduled for later this year. At the moment, that is tentatively scheduled for Update 50, after these changes, and we'll be rebalancing our plans for that tree after this is done.

    As usual with these threads, all of this is subject to change. Please note that we're still in the process of DPS and bug testing - While we have goals laid out below, we're still working on making sure that we meet them, and many things (especially specific numbers) will likely change before Live.

    Goals

    1. Add an animation set to Bow combat that allows us to balance the Bow combat style without incredibly-high BAB values that break the speed cap.
      • As I'll get into below, the current Bow animations are problematic for balance as well as certain features of DDO's engine. They need to be replaced.
    2. Buff bow builds in Heroic levels.
      • Bows attack a lot slower than other weapons on Live currently, and that's especially problematic in lower Heroics. We're looking to improve that with a mix of speed and power.
    3. Buff bow builds in Epic by retaining the existing maximum attack speed but adding more power.
      • Conversely, for game performance reasons we don't want Bow builds shooting much (if any) faster than they currently do. However, we do want endgame bow builds to be stronger, so that means making each shot hit harder.
    4. Remove the combat style's over-reliance on burst damage by eliminating Manyshot and adding most of that power back to bow stats in other places.
      • As we've said for years, Manyshot's design is one of the main sticking points in being able to increase overall Bow damage. Your damage is multiplied so much 1/6 of the time that it's difficult to buff the other 5/6 without ridiculous hoops, connected cooldowns, and weird clauses. It's time for it to go in favor of more overall power for bows. As you'll see detailed below, we've changed Manyshot to an attack, and added more stable Ranged Power and Doubleshot into Bow feats. Between those and the new Manyshot attack, you should (by the time we go Live) be doing better damage overall than before, just distributed more evenly across your attacks.
    5. Diversify the number of viable builds that can use Longbows and Shortbows.
      • Right now, the only builds that are really close to viable with Bows are Rangers (and, to a lesser extent, Fighters). There are other trees that can make use of Bows, and we'd like those to be more viable than they currently are (even if they end up trailing behind the sheer power of Bow-dedicated Fighters and Rangers).
    6. Don't significantly shift the role or strength of individual Enhancement Trees - Let the pass' other features bring all of them up together.
      • We have a number of trees that support Bows, and we don't plan on using this pass to shift their relative strengths or focuses.
        • Deepwood Stalker: DPS-focused tree that balances Melee and Bows.
        • Arcane Archer: Crowd Control-focused tree with a secondary Elemental DPS theme.
        • Kensei: A Bow DPS tree (if you want it to be, anyway).
        • Knight of the Chalice: A Favored Weapon DPS-focused tree, and if Bows are your Favored Weapon, it can work. (We've made one change for this tree below, to aid in the fact that acquiring Bow feats is harder for Paladin than Fighter or Ranger).
        • Warpriest/War Soul: A hybrid DPS/Casting tree with the full backing of Divine Healing spells. (We're still talking about whether or not we feel it necessary to add Bow-specific bonuses to these two trees to support Silver Flame Cleric/FvS.)
        • Zen Archery Monks: Usually a hybrid of some kind, we want to make sure they're supported also without becoming disproportionately better or worse.


    That all said, let's dive into what's changing.
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    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  2. #2
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Animation Set

    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Animation Set
    The two most baseline elements in your attack speed are Animation Length and Base Attack Bonus. As your BAB goes up, we apply different multipliers (usually increasing as you level and your BAB goes up) to the animation speed. This isn't really displayed in-game anywhere, it's just considered to be your baseline attack speed and is also used to let us adjust for animations that may be faster or slower than we need them to be. It wouldn't be terribly useful to dive into the relation between those two numbers, but the core of a lot of Bow's attack issues is this:

    1. The existing Bow animation is terribly, painfully slow. Much slower than you ever see in game.
    2. This is fixed by using Base Attack Bonus' speed to make the animation much faster (...but still slower than most other attacks in the game).
    3. DDO's engine won't let animations go beyond a certain level of speed, and this BAB-speed adjustment on Live brings Bow users most of the way to cap at level 1, and a Deepwood Stalker with Haste easily made it over that cap with no other boosts.


    So. We made a new animation set that doesn't have that issue. That solves Goal #1 right out of the gate. We also used this to help address Goal #2.

    • Level 1 Ranger with a Longbow using Current Live Animations: Each shot takes about 1.14 seconds.
    • Level 1 Ranger with a Longbow using New Animations: Each shot takes about 1.11 seconds.


    This isn't much faster! However, as we'll get into in the Attack Speed section below, attack speed bonuses are worth more in this new animation set than they were before - If you have the Haste spell applied, a Speed item, or a feat that boosts your Ranged attack speed (such as Rapid Shot), you'll be firing significantly faster than before at low levels.

    As we said in Goal #3, however, we want you to fire at about the same speed you do on Live now at endgame. So, the amount of speed Bow users gain from BAB between level 1 and cap is a lot smaller than before. We are going to come back around to that, because even if the base fire rate is the same, some of your other bonuses to attack speed are going to count with Bows when they didn't before due to the engine cap.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  3. #3
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Attack Speed

    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Attack Speed
    The current animations cap firing speed with Bows at about 0.69sec per shot, or about 87 shots per minute; any bonuses you get that would make you faster than that simply don't work right now. While we're fixing that, we don't want to significantly increase that on a stable basis (though we do want the boosts you do get to do what they say they do). In the past, we've sometimes added extraneous speed sources for Bows as a way to help prop up the combat style; this didn't work (because of the animation problem), but with that issue fixed it's time to pull back on some of those.

    To get from the new endgame baseline speed to an attack speed of 0.69sec per shot, you only need 25% attack speed boost. We're planning for that to come from two sources at the moment:

    • Enhancement Bonus: 15%
      • This is the most common bonus type for attack speed, found on the Haste spell, Speed items, and the Blinding Speed feat. In most cases, it caps at 15%, but there's a significant outlier that we're fixing in this patch; the Blinding Speed feat, which currently grants 22%.
      • Blinding Speed was meant to be a direct analogue of the Haste spell, permanently granting you the bonuses of that spell. However, around the same time the feat was created we reduced the Ranged Attack Speed the Haste spell gave from 22% to 15%, and the feat never followed suit. In this update, we're changing it 15% to match the Haste spell. Reconstruct's attack speed portion has this disparity also, and will also be changed in this patch.
      • We do understand that this affects other Ranged builds that do not use Bows, and are comfortable with that change; if they need buffing after this, we'll do it in ways that are better than having them rely on a single misaligned ability.
    • Feat Bonus: 10%
      • The remaining 10% needed for Bows to reach 25% could have come from a number of sources, but we decided to keep it in place on one of the earliest sources available to most Bow users - the Rapid Shot feat.


    This means that the following sources of Bow attack speed have been removed:
    • Shot on the Run no longer gives 10% attack speed with Longbows and Shortbows; its Ranged Power grant has been improved from +3 to +6. (Note that the Ranged Power is not Bow-specific).
    • Improved Archer's Focus (in T5 Deepwood Stalker) no longer gives 10% attack speed with Longbows and Shortbows while Archer's Focus is active; it now also grants +10 Ranged Power.
    • Primal Hymn (in Fatesinger) no longer gives 10% Attack Speed with Longbows and Shortbows. (It still gives it for Thrown Weapons, though most of the time Throwers are running into the same animation cap issue that Bows were before these changes...)


    There's also one other outlier of Enhancement Bonus to Ranged Attack Speed: Top-end Ranged Alacrity items. These come in 20% and 25% variants. This wasn't as big of a deal before the change to Blinding Speed, but left untouched they'd be much, much stronger than other bows.
    • For this Lamannia, all instances of 25% Ranged Alacrity have been reduced to 20%. We're leaving existing 20% untouched for now to analyze how big of an impact leaving these items as a 5% boost over everything else will be, but that may change before Live as well.
    Last edited by Cocomajobo; 03-23-2021 at 01:58 PM.
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    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  4. #4
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Better Scaling Damage

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    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Better Scaling Damage
    Classically, these Bows have had Dexterity to hit but no Damage modifier; this caused a lot of Bow users to feel like they had to spend points in Universal trees or splash 2 Ranger (spending points in Deepwood Stalker), or their damage would just trail behind viable levels. To help Bows have better damage that scales closer to other weapons, and in service of Goal #5 (making a wider variety of Bow builds viable), we've added Dexterity to Damage by default on Longbows and Shortbows.

    • It's worth noting that Crossbows do not have an ability score modifier to damage by default either; however, they have bigger damage dice, better crit range and multiplier, and other considerations to the point where we don't feel such a change is necessary for them at this time.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  5. #5
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Hitting Harder in Heroics and Epics

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    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Hitting Harder in Heroics and Epics
    As we said in Goal #2, we want to increase Bow damage in Heroics with not just attack speed, but a little extra power. The DEX on bows alone isn't reaching that height yet (especially as that doesn't gain anything on some existing builds), so:

    • Point Blank Shot now also adds "When using a Longbow or Shortbow, you gain +1 Critical Multiplier on a roll of 19-20".


    As we said in Goal #3, we want to increase Bow damage for top-end bow builds. Right now, that looks like this:

    • Combat Archery now also grants +1 Critical Threat Range with Longbows and Shortbows.
    • Combat Archery's DEX requirement is now 17 (was 21).
      • This should help some builds that need to split Ability Score increases to reach this essential feat.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  6. #6
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Removing and Compensating for Manyshot

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    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Removing and Compensating for Manyshot
    As we said in Goal #4, we want to take Manyshot's power and distribute it back into passive damage. If you don't use the current Manyshot, you break about even on sustained damage with ~20% Doubleshot and ~20 Ranged Power, depending on how much of each of those stats you have already. However, we also wanted to keep the idea of a "Manyshot" around. So, we've made the following changes:

    • The existing Manyshot ability is gone.
    • The Manyshot feat changes to:
      • Manyshot: Bow Attack: Fire three arrows in quick succession. +1 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier on each of these shots. (Note: This attack only rolls for Doubleshot once.) 12 second cooldown. Passive: You gain Doubleshot equal to your BAB with longbows and shortbows. (All prerequisites for it remain the same. Rangers still get it at level 6 automatically.)
    • Rapid Shot now also adds " You gain Ranged Power equal to your BAB with longbows and shortbows".


    Between those two sets of changes and the attack speed you're getting back, you should end up with around the same amount of overall DPS in upper Heroics and Epics, just distributed a lot more evenly across your attacks instead of bursting the majority of it upfront.
    Last edited by Cocomajobo; 03-23-2021 at 01:10 PM.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  7. #7
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Fixes and Misc Changes

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    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Fixes & Misc Changes

    • Knight of the Chalice's T4 Knight's Training now also grants the Shot on the Run feat.
      • Paladins who have Bows as Favored Weapons are slightly too feat starved to take all of the necessary feats to use bows well beyond low levels. This should help.
    • Active Ranged attacks that have bonuses to Critical Threat Range no longer get double that range on those attacks.
      • This primarily applied to the Ranged version of Exalted Smite, but would have been broken on the new Manyshot as well.
    • Another thing that was done frequently to prop up Longbows and Shortbows in the past was to give them abnormally large Critical Threat bonuses. This is no longer needed after this pass, so we've taken Bows that have exceptionally large Critical Threat Ranges (18-20) and reduced them by 1 (19-20). All of these still have a larger Critical Threat Range than average Bows, just not as large as before.
      • Affected Bows are:
        • Pinion, Cloud-Piercer
        • Sapphire Sting
        • Epic Sapphire Sting
        • Bow of the Elements (Air)
        • Silver Longbow
        • Epic Thornlord
        • Unwavering Ardency
        • Bow of Sinew
        • Collapsible Shortbow


    You'll also see a more diverse array of ways to build Bow builds in Epic later this year when Horizon Walker arrives and the Epic Destiny revamp is finished.

    If you have any questions, let me know!
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  8. #8
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default Itemized List of total Bow Changes

    After all of that breakdown here is the full itemized list of changes that are affecting the bow combat style.

    Itemized List of total Bow Changes

    • Longbows and Shortbows now use new, faster animations.
    • All Longbows and Shortbows now innately get your Dexterity modifier applied to Damage.
    • Point Blank Shot now also adds "While wielding Longbows and Shortbows, you gain +1 Critical Multiplier on rolls of 19-20." in addition to its other effects.
    • Blinding Speed now grants 15% Ranged Attack Speed, matching Haste.
    • Reconstruct now grants 15% Ranged Attack Speed, matching Haste.
    • Shot on the Run no longer gives 10% attack speed with Longbows and Shortbows.
    • Shot on the Run's Ranged Power grant has been improved from +3 to +6.
    • Improved Archer's Focus (in T5 Deepwood Stalker) no longer gives 10% attack speed with Longbows and Shortbows while Archer's Focus is active.
    • Improved Archer's Focus now also grants +10 Ranged Power.
    • Primal Hymn (in Fatesinger) no longer gives 10% Attack Speed with Longbows and Shortbows. (It still gives it for Thrown Weapons.)
    • All instances of 25% Ranged Alacrity on items have been reduced to 20%.
    • The Manyshot feat is now: Manyshot: Bow Attack: Fire three arrows in quick succession. +1 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier on each of these shots. (Note: This attack only rolls for Doubleshot once.) 12 second cooldown. Passive: You gain Doubleshot equl to your BAB with longbows and shortbows.
    • The Rapid Shot feat now adds " You gain Ranged Power equal to your BAB with longbows and shortbows" in addition to its other effects.
    • Combat Archery now also grants +1 Critical Threat Range with Longbows and Shortbows.
    • Combat Archery's DEX requirement is now 17 (was 21).
    • Knight of the Chalice's T4 Knight's Training now also grants the Shot on the Run feat.
    • Active Ranged attacks that have bonuses to Critical Threat Range no longer get double that range on those attacks.
    • The following Longbows and Shortbows have had their Critical Threat Ranges reduced from 18-20 to 19-20:
      • Pinion, Cloud-Piercer
      • Sapphire Sting
      • Epic Sapphire Sting
      • Bow of the Elements (Air)
      • Silver Longbow
      • Epic Thornlord
      • Unwavering Ardency
      • Bow of Sinew
      • Collapsible Shortbow
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  9. #9
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default

    An Update from Steelstar after Preview 1:

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Thanks for trying out the new Bow changes in the first Lamannia preview!

    We've read through a mountain of feedback, collected a lot of data from Lamannia, and will be looking to make some changes before the next Preview (exact date TBD). We've passed along feedback about the animations to the art department, and are looking into next steps on the systems side.


    • Our first priority is fixing bugs - While there are some that are going to require larger investigations (extra hit/damage on Ranged Exalted Smite, for instance) we're aiming to fix what we can quickly, so that we have a good read on how impacted the numbers we (and you!) were seeing on Lamannia were by bugs.
    • Once we have those squared, it's clear that we still have some upward movement to do in terms of power - We want bows to be stronger overall than they are on Live, and it's clear from both feedback and data that we aren't quite there yet. I can't say exactly what we're going to do yet - Like I said, we're still fixing bugs and analyzing how those impacted data - But you should definitely see some more power by Preview 2.


    We can't respond to every single post, but we do read them - Thank you for taking the time to try these new changes, and for your patience as we continue making adjustments!
    Last edited by Cocomajobo; 03-29-2021 at 10:14 AM.

  10. #10
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    [*]Don't significantly shift the role or strength of individual Enhancement Trees - Let the pass' other features bring all of them up together.
    • We have a number of trees that support Bows, and we don't plan on using this pass to shift their relative strengths or focuses.
      • Deepwood Stalker: DPS-focused tree that balances Melee and Bows.
      • Arcane Archer: Crowd Control-focused tree with a secondary Elemental DPS theme.
      • Kensei: A Bow DPS tree (if you want it to be, anyway).
      • Knight of the Chalice: A Favored Weapon DPS-focused tree, and if Bows are your Favored Weapon, it can work. (We've made one change for this tree below, to aid in the fact that acquiring Bow feats is harder for Paladin than Fighter or Ranger).
      • Warpriest/War Soul: A hybrid DPS/Casting tree with the full backing of Divine Healing spells. (We're still talking about whether or not we feel it necessary to add Bow-specific bonuses to these two trees to support Silver Flame Cleric/FvS.)
      • Zen Archery Monks: Usually a hybrid of some kind, we want to make sure they're supported also without becoming disproportionately better or worse.
    [/LIST]

    That all said, let's dive into what's changing.
    You also need to at least look at the functionality of Eldritch Knight and Wizard with a bow, as Eldritch Knight gives an elemental imbue that works with a bow very similarly to the way the one on Arcane Archer does, and since Wizards get a ton of bonus feats it's quite easy to do a functional bow build on a Wizard. Also, you need VERY minimal investment in EK to get that elemental imbue up to a very good level because it levels based on your wizard level, not the tree investment. Oh, sure, putting points in the tree makes the imbue a tiny bit better as the die type increases with the cores, but you only really NEED that level 3 core to grant it for like 85% of the effectiveness, and that's plenty. I did a Sun Elf Wizard build using Arcane Archer and Eldritch knight and it was quite effective, since you basically double your elemental damage per hit this way.

  11. #11
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Better Scaling Damage
    Classically, these Bows have had Dexterity to hit but no Damage modifier; this caused a lot of Bow users to feel like they had to spend points in Universal trees or splash 2 Ranger (spending points in Deepwood Stalker), or their damage would just trail behind viable levels. To help Bows have better damage that scales closer to other weapons, and in service of Goal #5 (making a wider variety of Bow builds viable), we've added Dexterity to Damage by default on Longbows and Shortbows.

    • It's worth noting that Crossbows do not have an ability score modifier to damage by default either; however, they have bigger damage dice, better crit range and multiplier, and other considerations to the point where we don't feel such a change is necessary for them at this time.
    Hmm. This is a tough one. IIRC dex to damage is actually one of the lower-performing bow builds anyway, because there's NO dex-related damage trance ability like Know the Angles or Divine Might. However, this is actually an argument in favor of making dex-to-damage with bows available free.

  12. #12
    FreeDeeOh PsychoBlonde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    Hitting Harder in Heroics and Epics
    As we said in Goal #2, we want to increase Bow damage in Heroics with not just attack speed, but a little extra power. The DEX on bows alone isn't reaching that height yet (especially as that doesn't gain anything on some existing builds), so:

    • Point Blank Shot now also adds "When using a Longbow or Shortbow, you gain +1 Critical Multiplier on a roll of 19-20".


    As we said in Goal #3, we want to increase Bow damage for top-end bow builds. Right now, that looks like this:

    • Combat Archery now also grants +1 Critical Threat Range with Longbows and Shortbows.
    • Combat Archery's DEX requirement is now 17 (was 21).
      • This should help some builds that need to split Ability Score increases to reach this essential feat.
    HOT **** you just made those feats good. PBS in particular has always felt like a waste of a feat to me, and since it's MANDATORY to get most of the other bow feats, it just felt like an arbitrary feat tax for bow-users.

  13. #13
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    You also need to at least look at the functionality of Eldritch Knight and Wizard with a bow, as Eldritch Knight gives an elemental imbue that works with a bow very similarly to the way the one on Arcane Archer does, and since Wizards get a ton of bonus feats it's quite easy to do a functional bow build on a Wizard. Also, you need VERY minimal investment in EK to get that elemental imbue up to a very good level because it levels based on your wizard level, not the tree investment. Oh, sure, putting points in the tree makes the imbue a tiny bit better as the die type increases with the cores, but you only really NEED that level 3 core to grant it for like 85% of the effectiveness, and that's plenty. I did a Sun Elf Wizard build using Arcane Archer and Eldritch knight and it was quite effective, since you basically double your elemental damage per hit this way.
    I play a 12/8 Ftr/Wiz and also take advantage of the spellsword stances for the elemental imbue.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    To get from the new endgame baseline speed to an attack speed of 0.69sec per shot, you only need 35% attack speed boost. We're planning for that to come from two sources at the moment:

    • Enhancement Bonus: 15%
      • This is the most common bonus type for attack speed, found on the Haste spell, Speed items, and the Blinding Speed feat. In most cases, it caps at 15%, but there's a significant outlier that we're fixing in this patch; the Blinding Speed feat, which currently grants 22%.
      • Blinding Speed was meant to be a direct analogue of the Haste spell, permanently granting you the bonuses of that spell. However, around the same time the feat was created we reduced the Ranged Attack Speed the Haste spell gave from 22% to 15%, and the feat never followed suit. In this update, we're changing it 15% to match the Haste spell. Reconstruct's attack speed portion has this disparity also, and will also be changed in this patch.
      • We do understand that this affects other Ranged builds that do not use Bows, and are comfortable with that change; if they need buffing after this, we'll do it in ways that are better than having them rely on a single misaligned ability.

    • Feat Bonus: 10%
      • The remaining 10% needed for Bows to reach 35% could have come from a number of sources, but we decided to keep it in place on one of the earliest sources available to most Bow users - the Rapid Shot feat.


    15+10=35? I may be missing something here?
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  15. #15
    Community Member Epicsoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LrdSlvrhnd View Post
    15+10=35? I may be missing something here?
    You don't start at 0% attack speed.
    Epicsoul | Omnisoul | Ultrasoul - Assistant to the Regional Manager of Lava Divers

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by PsychoBlonde View Post
    Oh, sure, putting points in the tree makes the imbue a tiny bit better as the die type increases with the cores, but you only really NEED that level 3 core to grant it for like 85% of the effectiveness, and that's plenty.
    20 Wizard with core 6: 7d12: Average 45.5
    20 Wizard with core 5: 6d10: Average 33.
    20 Wizard with only core 2: 6d6. Average 21. A bit far from your "85% effectiveness"
    Enthusiasm enthusiast enthusiast.

  17. #17
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    • The existing Manyshot ability is gone.
    • The Manyshot feat changes to:
      • Manyshot: Bow Attack: Fire three arrows in quick succession. +1 Critical Threat Range and Multiplier on each of these shots. (Note: This attack only rolls for Doubleshot once.) 12 second cooldown. Passive: You gain Doubleshot equal to your BAB with longbows and shortbows. (All prerequisites for it remain the same. Rangers still get it at level 6 automatically.)

    *Elephant in the room question*

    Is this going to be coded as a +200% doubleshot attack or separate attacks? ie. Will hunt's end/adrenaline proc on these extra attacks?

    (and is the current functionality of hunts end/adrenaline proc'ing on doubleshot but not doublestrike intended or will it be subject to being "fixed")
    Thelanis

  18. #18
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    Those changes are nice and all, but I feel short bow and long bow should have different speeds and maybe different tree affiliations?

    Right now the incentive to play short bow is low and will remain so unless something is done like adding a new raid short bow, adding in certain trees bonuses for short bows,

    I.E short bow could be added to rogue's Assassin's tree (replace the poison attacks made obsolete by alchemist poison or update the poisons to be a stance).
    Execute is melee only right now but ranger's same version of the ability is ranged or Melee; I believe Adding the choice for assassinate and execute to be ranged (only with thrown daggers and short bows).
    Changing knife specialization to assassin's weapon's specialty (dagger, kukri, short sword and short bow) could also help with that.

    Rangers could get added benefits for using shortbows, like Improved Archer's Focus now also grants +10 Ranged Power. could have the clause "doubled for shortbows".

    Tweaking Eldritch knight so it's more bow friendly could be awesome as well, not only for shortbows but all bows.

    Maybe a Arcane trickster tree for wizards, bards and rogues (could work with other classes too) add sneak attack dices to spells and focuses on using stelath from affar with spells and shortbows(to deliver touch spells)

    Also maybe add them to swashbuckling, I mean if you can swashbuckle with a light crossbow, why not shortbows?

  19. #19
    Community Member Epicsoul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    [/LIST][/LIST]
    *Elephant in the room question*

    Is this going to be coded as a +200% doubleshot attack or separate attacks? ie. Will hunt's end/adrenaline proc on these extra attacks?

    (and is the current functionality of hunts end/adrenaline proc'ing on doubleshot but not doublestrike intended or will it be subject to being "fixed")
    According to Coco and Steel on discord, it does work with every arrow.
    Epicsoul | Omnisoul | Ultrasoul - Assistant to the Regional Manager of Lava Divers

  20. #20
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    You forgot Armor of Speed which still gives 22% ranged attack speed?
    And I wonder if you do anything to Zen Archery?
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

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