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  1. #1
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    Default A few complaints about Alchemist

    So I'm back to the game after being gone a VERY long time. Keep in mind I'm not a seasoned player and have never had a level 30 character, so maybe my complaints are not valid? Who knows. Thought I'd write them out anyways.

    Saw the Alchemist and thought, cool let's go for that! Well actually first I stole an uber solo build for a FVS/Art, but the lack of AoE and gameplay was rather boring.

    So my first issue is that the only place I can buy spells apparently is in the black hole. Once I had high enough UMD to get there I found out they don't sell ALL the spells.

    This is horrible because now I need to be sure to pick the spells I can't buy, then buy the others to get as many spells as I can. Most notably they don't sell any of the level 1 aoe spells or heals.

    Next issue I have is how slow the heal potion animation is. It's a POTION! Throw it and BREAK IT ALREADY! FTLOG please speed this animation up there is no reason for this.

    Next is Accelerate spells. I think this metamagic should be free cost. +5 SP for every single cast just to make it go a bit faster, I mean cool but...? I'm barely making it through elite content as it is without ANY meta feats on at level 8-10.

    Fighters and Archers get tons of nice feats that do extra dmg and hit and don't cost a thing. This feat doesn't do more dmg, so just let us have it so we can have fun with it.

    My next issue is with all the CC. It's almost all PBAOE. I mean great if people wanna be fighters? I'm feeling more of those CC potions need to be tossed, not smashed.

    Last I have an issue with the Alchemist reactions. I don't like being told HOW to play my character!

    What do I mean by this?

    Well every time I want to buff myself, elemental resists, heroic, stoneskin etc.. it takes me out of my wanted category of orange.

    So in order to get back into orange after casting a blue spell I MUST cast a RED SPELL next, THEN I HAVE TO CAST A YELLOW, ALL JUST TO GET BACK TO ORANGE AFTER BUFFING MYSELF!

    Because if I use a blue, then cast a YELLOW, I will be in GREEN, if I cast a RED to get out of that, I will be in a NUETRAL state, which means I have to cast a YELLOW AGAIN to get BACK TO ORANGE!

    That would be FIVE SPELLS to go back to orange, just cause I needed to buff myself with a blue spell. So yah, you guys MADE it so I have to cast a RED SPELL FIRST, THEN A YELLOW... FORCING me to play my character the way you want.

    And let's also mention this. That if I have to spend 25SP on a blue skill, to spend another 8-10 Sp on a yellow, JUST to get -50% costs on Red's for a few seconds, I will need to cast at LEAST 3-4 high level red spells JUST to break even.

    So the amount of SP saved, if any, is absolutely negligible and the extra damage is completely unnoticed and not worth twisting all that stuff just to get. When you're sitting on 160 power just from handheld items, an extra 20 points or so just isn't noticeable at all and I'm guessing will be even less noticeable at higher levels.

    The reactions IMHO need to be completely reworked. I would never WILLINGLY get out of orange as a DPS just to have to twist back to orange to get the sad buff. What a headache.

    Still though I'm having a blast with him so good on you guys. Some QoL fixes could really improved the gameplay though.

    Best wishes

  2. #2
    The Eternal Rapscallion Haphazarduk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    The reactions IMHO need to be completely reworked. I would never WILLINGLY get out of orange as a DPS just to have to twist back to orange to get the sad buff. What a headache.
    I agree with some of what you say but stick with it a bit. You do get a very good boost for those 12 secs which can make a big difference to your spell power especially in mid heroics. It can be a pain but after a while it’s like any piece of gameplay - you learn it and get used to it. I quite enjoy it now.

    Hap

  3. #3
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    So I'm back to the game after being gone a VERY long time. Keep in mind I'm not a seasoned player and have never had a level 30 character, so maybe my complaints are not valid? Who knows. Thought I'd write them out anyways.
    First off, Welcome back.

    Saw the Alchemist and thought, cool let's go for that! Well actually first I stole an uber solo build for a FVS/Art, but the lack of AoE and gameplay was rather boring.
    There is AoE and fairly early.

    So my first issue is that the only place I can buy spells apparently is in the black hole. Once I had high enough UMD to get there I found out they don't sell ALL the spells.
    Level 1-6 scrolls can be gotten at House of Wizardry in House Jorasco.

    Next issue I have is how slow the heal potion animation is. It's a POTION! Throw it and BREAK IT ALREADY! FTLOG please speed this animation up there is no reason for this.
    I have a few Alchemists and have not had an issue as yet.

    Next is Accelerate spells. I think this metamagic should be free cost. +5 SP for every single cast just to make it go a bit faster, I mean cool but...? I'm barely making it through elite content as it is without ANY meta feats on at level 8-10.
    Accelarate gives the potion a shallower arc.

    Last I have an issue with the Alchemist reactions. I don't like being told HOW to play my character!

    What do I mean by this?

    Well every time I want to buff myself, elemental resists, heroic, stoneskin etc.. it takes me out of my wanted category of orange.

    So in order to get back into orange after casting a blue spell I MUST cast a RED SPELL next, THEN I HAVE TO CAST A YELLOW, ALL JUST TO GET BACK TO ORANGE AFTER BUFFING MYSELF!

    Because if I use a blue, then cast a YELLOW, I will be in GREEN, if I cast a RED to get out of that, I will be in a NUETRAL state, which means I have to cast a YELLOW AGAIN to get BACK TO ORANGE!

    That would be FIVE SPELLS to go back to orange, just cause I needed to buff myself with a blue spell. So yah, you guys MADE it so I have to cast a RED SPELL FIRST, THEN A YELLOW... FORCING me to play my character the way you want.

    And let's also mention this. That if I have to spend 25SP on a blue skill, to spend another 8-10 Sp on a yellow, JUST to get -50% costs on Red's for a few seconds, I will need to cast at LEAST 3-4 high level red spells JUST to break even.

    So the amount of SP saved, if any, is absolutely negligible and the extra damage is completely unnoticed and not worth twisting all that stuff just to get. When you're sitting on 160 power just from handheld items, an extra 20 points or so just isn't noticeable at all and I'm guessing will be even less noticeable at higher levels.

    The reactions IMHO need to be completely reworked. I would never WILLINGLY get out of orange as a DPS just to have to twist back to orange to get the sad buff. What a headache.

    Still though I'm having a blast with him so good on you guys. Some QoL fixes could really improved the gameplay though.

    You're being a bit petulant here, the reactions aren't really that hard to shift between and they do serve a purpose. This class was designed to be different than your run of the mill spell caster. Keep at it, it gets better and as you practice.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRunning View Post
    First off, Welcome back.
    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRunning View Post
    Level 1-6 scrolls can be gotten at House of Wizardry in House Jorasco.
    Although I saw more spells there, still didn't see the level 1 smash vials.


    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRunning View Post
    I have a few Alchemists and have not had an issue as yet.
    That throw heal potion animation is EXTREMELY slow. Borderline ridiculous.


    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRunning View Post
    Accelarate gives the potion a shallower arc.
    Right and no damage. So I think it should have no extra SP cost.


    Quote Originally Posted by SilentRunning View Post
    You're being a bit petulant here, the reactions aren't really that hard to shift between and they do serve a purpose. This class was designed to be different than your run of the mill spell caster. Keep at it, it gets better and as you practice.
    Maybe I am. But still if I'm a DPS and want to be in orange and need to rebuff mid fight, I now MUST cast a red spell, then a yellow spell, then another red spell, IN THAT ORDER, to get BACK to Orange as fast as possible.

    But the situation I'm in might not call for spells in that order. I might need to cast two yellows, one dps and one CC. But if I want to get back to Orange, I can't do that. I have to specifically cast a red then yellow, or yellow then red.

    It feels more like a drawback to the character than a benefit. And the short little buff you get doesn't make it worth swapping out of it at all. I'll keep playing it, it's just annoying and could be redone to be more fun if u ask me.

    My original thread wasn't about me not going to play the Alchemist, I just think it could use some brushing up around the edges.

    Haven't played the game in a long time and I sure don't remember being this low on spell points ever. I really have to watch it. Makes a good challenge so far.

  5. #5
    Community Member DarkSkysz's Avatar
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    Some alchemist spells are 'rare' so no scrolls for sale. So all the scrolls you can buy are in house J, C or pocket hole.

    Can completly agree with the heal animation speed...But lets be honest. 5k heal / 40sp quickened would be SOOOO good!!

    The feat should be SP free or even increase the AOE radius, thrown distance, or even DC spells to make it worth it. The potion thrown arc is good to hit things on the high ground, so totally not worth +5sp/cast AND a feat slot just for that.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    So I'm back to the game after being gone a VERY long time. Keep in mind I'm not a seasoned player and have never had a level 30 character, so maybe my complaints are not valid? Who knows. Thought I'd write them out anyways.

    Saw the Alchemist and thought, cool let's go for that! Well actually first I stole an uber solo build for a FVS/Art, but the lack of AoE and gameplay was rather boring.

    So my first issue is that the only place I can buy spells apparently is in the black hole. Once I had high enough UMD to get there I found out they don't sell ALL the spells. first, you mean portable hole and not black hole but not a big deal... second, this is something that's true for all casters, and unlike alchemist, some of them can't even go use a scroll to get the spell (only intelligence based casters can do this)

    This is horrible because now I need to be sure to pick the spells I can't buy, then buy the others to get as many spells as I can. Most notably they don't sell any of the level 1 aoe spells or heals. Not sure if you're familiar with reincarnation, but doing anything less than a true reincarnation (including an epic reincarnation once you hit 30!) will allow you to choose more spells and keeps all the ones you had previously. Epic reincarnating once or twice is a great way to get access to all the spells.

    Next issue I have is how slow the heal potion animation is. It's a POTION! Throw it and BREAK IT ALREADY! FTLOG please speed this animation up there is no reason for this. yeah kind of annoying that the alchemist healing potions cannot be quickened

    Next is Accelerate spells. I think this metamagic should be free cost. +5 SP for every single cast just to make it go a bit faster, I mean cool but...? I'm barely making it through elite content as it is without ANY meta feats on at level 8-10. First off, why this metamagic and no other? Second, just turn the metamagic off. Metas are not really something you can use in heroic levels without pretty good gear and maybe some past lives. It helps that alchemist has reactions, because they each give you a massive buff for 12 seconds when you enter a new one (buff only lasts while you remain in this reaction, if you leave it before 12 seconds the buff is lost until you go into that reaction again) and the orange one happens to give a -50% spellpoint cost in its buff, so cycling through your reactions is imperative to playing an alchemist well. Sitting in one reaction all the time is something you could do but you lose a HUGE amount of power and potential by doing this.

    Fighters and Archers get tons of nice feats that do extra dmg and hit and don't cost a thing. This feat doesn't do more dmg, so just let us have it so we can have fun with it. Actually they do mostly cost something. For example, power attack gives a debuff to your to-hit and precision prevents you from raging (can't use precision on a barbarian if you want to do good damage, for example; also don't think you can use adrenaline overload while using precision). In addition to that, many metamagics are significantly stronger for casters than these feats are for melee/ranged, most notably quicken and maximize (precision may compete in relative power depending on the content you're running because 25% fort bypass is a lot)

    My next issue is with all the CC. It's almost all PBAOE. I mean great if people wanna be fighters? I'm feeling more of those CC potions need to be tossed, not smashed. I definitely get the vibe, but I think the reason it's self centered is that they generally have more power than other caster cc and you also have the purple reaction so if you activate this right before running in to cc stuff you have an insanely large bonus to your tankiness.

    Last I have an issue with the Alchemist reactions. I don't like being told HOW to play my character! Alchemist reactions don't tell you how to play your character, they make certain ways of playing it better than others. A number of people actually like the reactions specifically because they're tricky to manage compared with how most classes handle, and it allows them to involve a lot more mechanical skill in their gameplay than most classes. At any rate, they offer a lot of power so even if you don't like it, it would serve you well to learn how to use them to your advantage.

    What do I mean by this?

    Well every time I want to buff myself, elemental resists, heroic, stoneskin etc.. it takes me out of my wanted category of orange.

    So in order to get back into orange after casting a blue spell I MUST cast a RED SPELL next, THEN I HAVE TO CAST A YELLOW, ALL JUST TO GET BACK TO ORANGE AFTER BUFFING MYSELF! This is a good thing, technically speaking, because otherwise it doesn't sound like you're cycling your reactions; as I mentioned above, this is key to 1) maximizing damage and 2) possibly doing a lot to help your spellpoint issues if you make sure to go into orange right as you find a large group of enemies, since you know you're going to cast a lot of spells to kill them all so getting that 50% spellpoint cost reduction will knock down the number of spellpoints you use for the encounter appreciably.

    Because if I use a blue, then cast a YELLOW, I will be in GREEN, if I cast a RED to get out of that, I will be in a NUETRAL state, which means I have to cast a YELLOW AGAIN to get BACK TO ORANGE! I am a bit annoyed that the reactions didn't quite end up working like it sounded they would. As I read their description, casting a new color spell should immediately put you in another reaction based on the most recent color cast. The way it works instead means that the fact that it keeps track of what color you most recently cast while you're in a reaction is 100% pointless and does literally nothing, and this difference also makes it a little clunkier changing reactions.

    That would be FIVE SPELLS to go back to orange, just cause I needed to buff myself with a blue spell. So yah, you guys MADE it so I have to cast a RED SPELL FIRST, THEN A YELLOW... FORCING me to play my character the way you want. Once again, I completely agree it should instantly change your reaction instead of putting you in neutral.

    And let's also mention this. That if I have to spend 25SP on a blue skill, to spend another 8-10 Sp on a yellow, JUST to get -50% costs on Red's for a few seconds, I will need to cast at LEAST 3-4 high level red spells JUST to break even. This is where SLAs come in handy so that besides the buff spell, you only spend like 8-10 total spellpoints after your blue spell to get back to orange reaction.

    So the amount of SP saved, if any, is absolutely negligible and the extra damage is completely unnoticed and not worth twisting all that stuff just to get. When you're sitting on 160 power just from handheld items, an extra 20 points or so just isn't noticeable at all and I'm guessing will be even less noticeable at higher levels. It should become easier at higher levels, low levels are often taxing on a spellcaster's spellpoints partly because a single spell can cost as much as 5% of your whole spellpoint pool. Also, it's not 20 extra spellpower in the 12 second buff at cap, it's 90. That's more than empower or intensify, and more than half of maximize; definitely noticeable. Additionally, assuming your home reaction is orange, entering purple when you jump in enemies to cc them is +90 prr once you are level 20+. 90 prr is larger than the prr that any other single source in the entire game gives you afaik. If someone somehow managed to have 0 prr at cap (not sure if this is possible, at least with gear on) then simply entering the purple reaction would nearly half all physical damage you took (this is an extreme case, but even if you had 700 prr another 90 is a little more than a 10% reduction in damage compared with what you were taking--so very good!).

    The reactions IMHO need to be completely reworked. I would never WILLINGLY get out of orange as a DPS just to have to twist back to orange to get the sad buff. What a headache. The buff is anything but sad, it is quite strong. It does help a LOT to be familiar with quests, since it becomes much easier to have an idea of when it's a good time to finish swapping reactions so you make use of the full 12 seconds.

    Still though I'm having a blast with him so good on you guys. Some QoL fixes could really improved the gameplay though.

    Best wishes
    My thoughts in bold red, alchemist is considered one of the more difficult classes to play because of reaction juggling and how much sheer power you can get from properly using them (I am not an expert on how to use alchemist reactions btw, I haven't played them much at all).

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSkysz View Post
    Some alchemist spells are 'rare' so no scrolls for sale. So all the scrolls you can buy are in house J, C or pocket hole.

    Can completly agree with the heal animation speed...But lets be honest. 5k heal / 40sp quickened would be SOOOO good!!

    The feat should be SP free or even increase the AOE radius, thrown distance, or even DC spells to make it worth it. The potion thrown arc is good to hit things on the high ground, so totally not worth +5sp/cast AND a feat slot just for that.
    Yeah I can see why they didn't make quicken affect healing potions, still sad though.

    Idk how often the super high arc of potions becomes a problem, but they fly pretty slowly without accelerate. Maybe when you're at close range it doesn't matter much, but it seems to me a bit like IPS for ranged in that even if you don't always want it draining your SP, it is something you must take so that you have it when it's needed. The arc definitely is a problem sometimes, I've seen potions fly in some weird places.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    Maybe I am. But still if I'm a DPS and want to be in orange and need to rebuff mid fight, I now MUST cast a red spell, then a yellow spell, then another red spell, IN THAT ORDER, to get BACK to Orange as fast as possible.

    But the situation I'm in might not call for spells in that order. I might need to cast two yellows, one dps and one CC. But if I want to get back to Orange, I can't do that. I have to specifically cast a red then yellow, or yellow then red.
    I imagine that if you need to cast some different spells in a different order than that would take precedence over getting back to orange, so you would just not get back to orange yet. That becomes a decision of whether the rebuff is more important for this specific fight or the pyrite reaction.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    Next issue I have is how slow the heal potion animation is. It's a POTION! Throw it and BREAK IT ALREADY! FTLOG please speed this animation up there is no reason for this.
    Quickened admixtures would be a nice bonus, although I don't think it's too much of an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    Next is Accelerate spells. I think this metamagic should be free cost. +5 SP for every single cast just to make it go a bit faster, I mean cool but...? I'm barely making it through elite content as it is without ANY meta feats on at level 8-10.
    Eh, I mean, the faster the spell hits the more DPS you deal. The cost seems appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    Fighters and Archers get tons of nice feats that do extra dmg and hit and don't cost a thing. This feat doesn't do more dmg, so just let us have it so we can have fun with it.
    Depends on the feat. A lot of those feats have class level or BAB prereqs in addition to ability score prereqs or even other feats. Also, as an alchemist you're gonna have more AoE potential, with better damage, than a fighter or ranger normally, with less risk involved. With that in mind, feats that affect said damage capacity should probably have a drawback or two. And the feat does speed up the potions, so you are doing more DPS that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    My next issue is with all the CC. It's almost all PBAOE. I mean great if people wanna be fighters? I'm feeling more of those CC potions need to be tossed, not smashed.
    I won't complain about having more long-distance CC spells, but tbf they are pretty effective and long-lasting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    Last I have an issue with the Alchemist reactions. I don't like being told HOW to play my character!
    What?

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    What do I mean by this?

    Well every time I want to buff myself, elemental resists, heroic, stoneskin etc.. it takes me out of my wanted category of orange.

    So in order to get back into orange after casting a blue spell I MUST cast a RED SPELL next, THEN I HAVE TO CAST A YELLOW, ALL JUST TO GET BACK TO ORANGE AFTER BUFFING MYSELF!

    Because if I use a blue, then cast a YELLOW, I will be in GREEN, if I cast a RED to get out of that, I will be in a NUETRAL state, which means I have to cast a YELLOW AGAIN to get BACK TO ORANGE!
    I mean, the reactions are a core aspect of the class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    That would be FIVE SPELLS to go back to orange, just cause I needed to buff myself with a blue spell. So yah, you guys MADE it so I have to cast a RED SPELL FIRST, THEN A YELLOW... FORCING me to play my character the way you want.
    For a very loose definition of "forcing". That would be like complaining that I'm not able to stay centered with light armor, so I'm forced to wear cloth on my monk. I can still opt to wear light armor on my monk just as you can opt to use a yellow spell first. Doing so would be suboptimal, but it's still a choice. Also, you can precisely use that time you have the temporary pyrite buff going to apply a buff to yourself in or out of combat. Again, your choice not to do such a thing, but it is effective.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    And let's also mention this. That if I have to spend 25SP on a blue skill, to spend another 8-10 Sp on a yellow, JUST to get -50% costs on Red's for a few seconds, I will need to cast at LEAST 3-4 high level red spells JUST to break even.
    That's why it's best to pick up the SLAs. The bombadier SLA is 1 sp with max ranks (which you'd want for CD reduction anyways) and the CLW curative admixture SLA is 2 sp with max ranks. The Stiffen Skin SLA is 2 sp with max ranks. So truly cycling your reactions would actually take 3-6 extra spell points. That's not too bad for a 50% discount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    So the amount of SP saved, if any, is absolutely negligible and the extra damage is completely unnoticed and not worth twisting all that stuff just to get. When you're sitting on 160 power just from handheld items, an extra 20 points or so just isn't noticeable at all and I'm guessing will be even less noticeable at higher levels.
    You get a lot more spell power from the temporary boost. Also, remember that that discount factors in after metas are applied. If you are using quicken or some of the other metamagics on your base spells in addition to your SLAs then you're going to notice a difference in the speed of spell point drain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    The reactions IMHO need to be completely reworked.
    I wouldn't complain about being able to switch between reactions a little faster, but quite honestly, I don't think there's any need to raise the floor for this class (and changing how the reactions work would pretty much amount to this).

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Angel View Post
    I would never WILLINGLY get out of orange as a DPS just to have to twist back to orange to get the sad buff. What a headache.
    Sad buff... those buffs are action boosts all their own. I wish my other casters could get boosts like those .

  10. #10
    Community Member Zorrbeania's Avatar
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    Default Couldn't find the Request a Build forum, so...

    I'm a 29 level Air Savant sorcerer with a Charisma of 32 and no past lives. I've got my Hp pretty much figured out, but I don't hit enemies for much damage with spells. The highest I've ever hit something is about 5,000 lighting damage in Air Elemental form and everything, too.
    I'd love it if you could give me some tips on how to bump up my DC, and other useful things that make it more likely to critically or hit for more damage.
    And since I haven't a clue what any of these things mean, giving small explanations for why I should have more (for instance) DC rather than spell power and what they're used for would be greatly appreciated, though it's up to you if you want to add that info.
    I know I'm asking a lot, but it really would make my day if someone responded!
    Thanks in advance!
    Sincerely, Zorrbeania

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    I'm a 29 level Air Savant sorcerer with a Charisma of 32 and no past lives. I've got my Hp pretty much figured out, but I don't hit enemies for much damage with spells. The highest I've ever hit something is about 5,000 lighting damage in Air Elemental form and everything, too.
    I'd love it if you could give me some tips on how to bump up my DC, and other useful things that make it more likely to critically or hit for more damage.
    And since I haven't a clue what any of these things mean, giving small explanations for why I should have more (for instance) DC rather than spell power and what they're used for would be greatly appreciated, though it's up to you if you want to add that info.
    I know I'm asking a lot, but it really would make my day if someone responded!
    Thanks in advance!
    I've got a few questions before we get started:

    1. What race are you?
    2. What destiny are you in?
    3. Where did you put your enhancement points in (e.g. were they all put in Air Savant)?
    4. Is 32 your base CHA or is this with items?
    5. Have you used any tomes?
    6. Do you play in reaper?
    7. Have you gotten the augments from Lahar in the Twelve?
    8. Do you raid frequently?

    I'll give my answer not assuming the best case so as to try and not miss anything.

    I don't know what destiny you are in or what feats you have taken, but you can bump up your DCs by taking the spell focus feats (electrical spells are all evocation for the sorc) and twisting in Precise Casting from Draconic Incarnation (Tier 2), if that isn't your main destiny. I'd also go up Magister as my destiny of preference if you are having trouble with your DCs, as that's where you are going to get the most benefits to DCs (you get 6 from the cores and another 6 from the specialization line passively and then a +5 boost for 20 seconds every minute as the active portion of the capstone). You also can take CHA while in that destiny, so there's that. I'm also not sure if you got your favor tome yet, but you can put that in CHA for more DCs if you'd prefer not to buy it from the store.

    There's also your enhancements. I don't know what race you are, but each of the sorc trees can give you CHA and each of the savant trees should give you a bonus to evocation (or conjuration if earth savant) up in the Tier 5 area. You're in air elemental form, so you obviously got the CHA bonus from there. If you play in reaper, there's a core in Dire Thaumaturge that allows you to pick up CHA, and as a core ability it persists outside of reaper. I'd suggest farming "Tokens of the Twelve" if you haven't already for an Exceptional CHA diamond. In addition, it's a good to farm gianthold restored relics for a Greater Evocation topaz (which from what I remember is a stacking bonus; the devs considered changing it but there was a lot of backlash). You also need a Commendation of Heroism for that topaz, which only comes from a couple raids, so if you have difficulty finding a group for said raid then you can get the Topaz of Evocation from Lahar with the Tokens or from the traders in gianthold with the ancient relics (which are from heroic GH).

    And finally you have the gear. If you are rolling around with a 32 CHA, then I doubt that you've gotten good CHA and evocation gear unless that 32 CHA is your base. Look for items that give you good CHA and evocation values, especially ones that are part of sets that give you artifact bonuses to the above. Sharn, Ravenloft, and Feywild are good places to get such gear. For example, you can get the Legendary Esoteric Initiate set, which gives you +4 artifact bonus to CHA and spell DCs (for an actual DC difference of +6), from Sharn. From the Feywild you can get gloves that give you a sacred or profane bonus to DCs (they're mutually exclusive of course). Some of the Sharn items have the Nearly Finished enhancement, which, depending on the item, will allow you to add insightful CHA or quality CHA to them. The "Legendary Bottle of Shadows" from "The Home of Memory" (out in the C Hills) gives you +2 profane well rounded, which is +2 to all of your ability scores. All of these items I've mentioned come from outside of raiding, so if you don't raid often then it's a start.


    Now onto the other very important question. The reason why DCs can often be more important than adding more spell power is that monster can half or even completely negate (with evasion) your damage. It's a math issue. Let's say that you do on average 1,000 pts of damage with a spell (arbitrary figure here for simplicity). If monsters are saving against your attack then they are only taking 500 pts of damage, so you'd need 100 spell power (each pt is a % increase) to get that same number. That's not too hard right? Now lets say, with that same base, that you had 900 spell power (which would make your spells run at 1000%). If you land the DCs then the monster is taking 10,000 pts of damage. However, if they make their saves then they only take 5,000. The amount of spell power you'd need to make up for the damage you lost would be 1900. Increasing your spell power by 100 isn't too challenging, but increasing your spell power by 1,000 is a lot to ask for. Of course, this is primarily an issue if you aren't killing things quickly enough. One might kill a monster with 10,000 pts of damage in epic, but they certainly won't kill a lot of things doing only 5,000 pts. The ideal scenario is to have enough spell power and DCs such that monsters are not making their saves often and you are doing enough damage when they fail their save to kill them. In the example above, you only need 900 spell power to do 10,000 damage on a failed save and only need 400 spell power to do 5,000 on a failed save, both values that are fairly easy to reach.

  12. #12
    Community Member Zorrbeania's Avatar
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    Smile Replying to your questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tuxedoman96 View Post
    I've got a few questions before we get started:

    1. What race are you?
    2. What destiny are you in?
    3. Where did you put your enhancement points in (e.g. were they all put in Air Savant)?
    4. Is 32 your base CHA or is this with items?
    5. Have you used any tomes?
    6. Do you play in reaper?
    7. Have you gotten the augments from Lahar in the Twelve?
    8. Do you raid frequently?

    I'll give my answer not assuming the best case so as to try and not miss anything.

    I don't know what destiny you are in or what feats you have taken, but you can bump up your DCs by taking the spell focus feats (electrical spells are all evocation for the sorc) and twisting in Precise Casting from Draconic Incarnation (Tier 2), if that isn't your main destiny. I'd also go up Magister as my destiny of preference if you are having trouble with your DCs, as that's where you are going to get the most benefits to DCs (you get 6 from the cores and another 6 from the specialization line passively and then a +5 boost for 20 seconds every minute as the active portion of the capstone). You also can take CHA while in that destiny, so there's that. I'm also not sure if you got your favor tome yet, but you can put that in CHA for more DCs if you'd prefer not to buy it from the store.

    There's also your enhancements. I don't know what race you are, but each of the sorc trees can give you CHA and each of the savant trees should give you a bonus to evocation (or conjuration if earth savant) up in the Tier 5 area. You're in air elemental form, so you obviously got the CHA bonus from there. If you play in reaper, there's a core in Dire Thaumaturge that allows you to pick up CHA, and as a core ability it persists outside of reaper. I'd suggest farming "Tokens of the Twelve" if you haven't already for an Exceptional CHA diamond. In addition, it's a good to farm gianthold restored relics for a Greater Evocation topaz (which from what I remember is a stacking bonus; the devs considered changing it but there was a lot of backlash). You also need a Commendation of Heroism for that topaz, which only comes from a couple raids, so if you have difficulty finding a group for said raid then you can get the Topaz of Evocation from Lahar with the Tokens or from the traders in gianthold with the ancient relics (which are from heroic GH).

    And finally you have the gear. If you are rolling around with a 32 CHA, then I doubt that you've gotten good CHA and evocation gear unless that 32 CHA is your base. Look for items that give you good CHA and evocation values, especially ones that are part of sets that give you artifact bonuses to the above. Sharn, Ravenloft, and Feywild are good places to get such gear. For example, you can get the Legendary Esoteric Initiate set, which gives you +4 artifact bonus to CHA and spell DCs (for an actual DC difference of +6), from Sharn. From the Feywild you can get gloves that give you a sacred or profane bonus to DCs (they're mutually exclusive of course). Some of the Sharn items have the Nearly Finished enhancement, which, depending on the item, will allow you to add insightful CHA or quality CHA to them. The "Legendary Bottle of Shadows" from "The Home of Memory" (out in the C Hills) gives you +2 profane well rounded, which is +2 to all of your ability scores. All of these items I've mentioned come from outside of raiding, so if you don't raid often then it's a start.


    Now onto the other very important question. The reason why DCs can often be more important than adding more spell power is that monster can half or even completely negate (with evasion) your damage. It's a math issue. Let's say that you do on average 1,000 pts of damage with a spell (arbitrary figure here for simplicity). If monsters are saving against your attack then they are only taking 500 pts of damage, so you'd need 100 spell power (each pt is a % increase) to get that same number. That's not too hard right? Now lets say, with that same base, that you had 900 spell power (which would make your spells run at 1000%). If you land the DCs then the monster is taking 10,000 pts of damage. However, if they make their saves then they only take 5,000. The amount of spell power you'd need to make up for the damage you lost would be 1900. Increasing your spell power by 100 isn't too challenging, but increasing your spell power by 1,000 is a lot to ask for. Of course, this is primarily an issue if you aren't killing things quickly enough. One might kill a monster with 10,000 pts of damage in epic, but they certainly won't kill a lot of things doing only 5,000 pts. The ideal scenario is to have enough spell power and DCs such that monsters are not making their saves often and you are doing enough damage when they fail their save to kill them. In the example above, you only need 900 spell power to do 10,000 damage on a failed save and only need 400 spell power to do 5,000 on a failed save, both values that are fairly easy to reach.
    Question 1: I'm a human.
    Question 2: I am currently working on getting all spheres
    Question 3: I put 57 of them in Air Savant, and 22 in Eldritch Knight. I have an extra one I don't know what to do with. XD
    Question 4: I started out with a Charisma of 15, since I didn't know sorcerers used Charisma to cast spells. I have a + 4 feats, a + 1 tome, and + 12 from gear.
    Question 5: Yes, only the one which has a +1, which is pretty weak.
    Question 6: I just started a week ago, for the longest time I just soloed with Hirelings on normal, but I've found some people who play regularly and do enjoy it, though I wish I could be more of an asset.
    Question 7: No, but I have checked it out and from what you said above I'll definitely make it a priority to get one.
    Question 8: I, again, have just started raiding a week ago, and the only raid I've been a part of is The Dryad and the Demigod one. I joined a group for the Chronoscope, but they finished it before I could find them.
    One of the things I'm trying to get from the new raid is Bottled Rainstorm, which I think would help my spells. My electric spell power at the moment is 550 with Legendary Ring of Spring's Storm from the Feywild, which I haven't tried out yet.
    Thank you so much for the reply, and feel free to ask any more questions that you need to know!
    Sincerely, Zorrbeania

  13. #13
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    You are playing the most OP class by far and still complain. I dont think anything would satisfy you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    Question 1: I'm a human.
    Ah ok, so there's not much you can do there. You can grab an extra pt of CHA in there for 3 pts (the core), so there's that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    Question 2: I am currently working on getting all spheres
    Hmm. Alright. I would definitely suggest landing on either Magister or Draconic as your primary destiny after you are done busting out your ED xp (Magister for DCs or Draconic for spellpower and SLAs).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    Question 3: I put 57 of them in Air Savant, and 22 in Eldritch Knight. I have an extra one I don't know what to do with. XD
    If you could spare 3-5 AP from Air Savant then you could get another 1-2 CHA (if you haven't gotten CHA from Eldritch Knight).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    Question 4: I started out with a Charisma of 15, since I didn't know sorcerers used Charisma to cast spells. I have a + 4 feats, a + 1 tome, and + 12 from gear.
    Ah. If you still have the heart of wood you start with then you could always use that to change your starting ability scores. +12 from gear is pretty low at lvl 29. With proper gearing you can get around 40 CHA or so (just eyeballing it; don't hurt me!). By +4 feats, are you talking about your level ups (i.e. every 4 levels) or are you talking about the epic feat for CHA that you can get (I suppose you'd only have +3 from that at this point, but doesn't hurt to ask)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    Question 5: Yes, only the one which has a +1, which is pretty weak.
    For future reference, each life, when you hit 1750 favor, you can get a +2 ability tome of your choosing. At 5000 Favor, you can get +5 tomes. Not sure what your favor is at now, but if you don't have 5000 favor then you could eventually get it just running around doing quests. If you ever do a True Reincarnate - any reincarnate that would bring your character back down to 1 as a new character without exp (unless you make this new character into an iconic) - you're favor and completions reset, and so you are able to get those rewards again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    Question 6: I just started a week ago, for the longest time I just soloed with Hirelings on normal, but I've found some people who play regularly and do enjoy it, though I wish I could be more of an asset.
    Hi Welcome (no sarcasm intended). If you aren't playing in reaper then it shouldn't be as much of an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    Question 7: No, but I have checked it out and from what you said above I'll definitely make it a priority to get one.
    They definitely help. Forgot to mention, but while the snowpeaks festival was going on you could get festive CHA diamonds. Perhaps some of your friends might have some lying around. That's a +2 bonus right there, and it's colorless. It's min level 22 though, so make sure you are putting it on an item that you plan to use later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    Question 8: I, again, have just started raiding a week ago, and the only raid I've been a part of is The Dryad and the Demigod one. I joined a group for the Chronoscope, but they finished it before I could find them.
    Well, you can definitely get some good gear from raiding, so good luck!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    One of the things I'm trying to get from the new raid is Bottled Rainstorm, which I think would help my spells. My electric spell power at the moment is 550 with Legendary Ring of Spring's Storm from the Feywild, which I haven't tried out yet.

    Thank you so much for the reply, and feel free to ask any more questions that you need to know!
    Anytime


    Edit: Whoops. Don't forget about the sentient filigrees. You can add bonuses to DCs and CHA onto your sentient weapon and artifacts as well (so my original estimate of 40 was off by quite a bit). Also, you can get some temporary bonuses to CHA through potions and elixirs. A common one is the lasting elixirs from the Mysterious Remnant Collector in the Hall of Heroes. For 250 remnants you can get a +2 stacking bonus to CHA (and other ability scores if you get them) for an hour. This persists through deaths and shrining. Then of course you have guild bonuses too, so if you haven't grabbed up the guild buffs you can ask one of your friends to invite you to a guild ship (if any of them are in a guild of course).
    Last edited by Tuxedoman96; 03-19-2021 at 05:24 PM.

  15. #15
    Community Member Zorrbeania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuxedoman96 View Post
    Ah ok, so there's not much you can do there. You can grab an extra pt of CHA in there for 3 pts (the core), so there's that.



    Hmm. Alright. I would definitely suggest landing on either Magister or Draconic as your primary destiny after you are done busting out your ED xp (Magister for DCs or Draconic for spellpower and SLAs).



    If you could spare 3-5 AP from Air Savant then you could get another 1-2 CHA (if you haven't gotten CHA from Eldritch Knight).



    Ah. If you still have the heart of wood you start with then you could always use that to change your starting ability scores. +12 from gear is pretty low at lvl 29. With proper gearing you can get around 40 CHA or so (just eyeballing it; don't hurt me!). By +4 feats, are you talking about your level ups (i.e. every 4 levels) or are you talking about the epic feat for CHA that you can get (I suppose you'd only have +3 from that at this point, but doesn't hurt to ask)?



    For future reference, each life, when you hit 1750 favor, you can get a +2 ability tome of your choosing. At 5000 Favor, you can get +5 tomes. Not sure what your favor is at now, but if you don't have 5000 favor then you could eventually get it just running around doing quests. If you ever do a True Reincarnate - any reincarnate that would bring your character back down to 1 as a new character without exp (unless you make this new character into an iconic) - you're favor and completions reset, and so you are able to get those rewards again.



    Hi Welcome (no sarcasm intended). If you aren't playing in reaper then it shouldn't be as much of an issue.



    They definitely help. Forgot to mention, but while the snowpeaks festival was going on you could get festive CHA diamonds. Perhaps some of your friends might have some lying around. That's a +2 bonus right there, and it's colorless. It's min level 22 though, so make sure you are putting it on an item that you plan to use later on.



    Well, you can definitely get some good gear from raiding, so good luck!



    Anytime


    Edit: Whoops. Don't forget about the sentient filigrees. You can add bonuses to DCs and CHA onto your sentient weapon and artifacts as well (so my original estimate of 40 was off by quite a bit). Also, you can get some temporary bonuses to CHA through potions and elixirs. A common one is the lasting elixirs from the Mysterious Remnant Collector in the Hall of Heroes. For 250 remnants you can get a +2 stacking bonus to CHA (and other ability scores if you get them) for an hour. This persists through deaths and shrining. Then of course you have guild bonuses too, so if you haven't grabbed up the guild buffs you can ask one of your friends to invite you to a guild ship (if any of them are in a guild of course).
    Yeah, I'm definitely going to start out with a higher Charisma when I Epic TR. I think the +4 from feats are actually from Enhancement trees, since I don't remember taking any + to Charisma feats, though it might be when I increased my Charisma by one four times, since I started out with a very low Charisma.
    Yeah, I'm definitely looking into getting better gear since I'm now at level 30 (yay!), and I know there is gear with +21 to Charisma out there.
    Yeah, not sure if I'm gonna ever TR with this character, I know I'll Epic TR when I fill out all/most of the Epic Destiny spheres.
    I actually started doing more damage on reaper mode (like up to 2,000 points on four skulls which is good for me XD), I'm still weak on Constitution which is why I'm still waiting on Dire Thaumaturge until I get the fourth core in Grim Barricade.
    Yep, was just looking at the filigrees and found a pretty good one, I think it had +2 to +4 to DCs, and other things that help spell casting.
    Thanks again for the reply, it's definitely making it easier to know what to look for to make my toon more powerful!
    By the way, which sever do you play on? If you're on Thelanis, maybe we could quest/raid sometime.
    Last edited by Zorrbeania; 03-21-2021 at 03:15 PM.
    Sincerely, Zorrbeania

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zorrbeania View Post
    By the way, which sever do you play on? If you're on Thelanis, maybe we could quest/raid sometime.
    I primarily play on Argo.

  17. #17
    Community Member MacDubh's Avatar
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    And points in spellcraft for spellpower

  18. #18
    Community Member Zorrbeania's Avatar
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    I thought that was right. Thanks for the replys, I will make sure and bump my spellcraft up and other important things like that when I Epic TR.
    Last edited by Zorrbeania; 03-25-2021 at 06:49 PM.
    Sincerely, Zorrbeania

  19. #19
    Community Member Zorrbeania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuxedoman96 View Post
    I primarily play on Argo.
    Darn. I only play on the Thelanis server, though I have some test toons on other servers (like trying out all the big races to see who makes a bigger dire bear, and stuff like that).
    Sincerely, Zorrbeania

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