Update 48.4 Post Update Issue with Spell Damage

[Tchtutax]

Devs,

The damage on Ice Flowers isn't matching up to the notes. I'm going through and killing various giants in the gianthold wilderness and the damage is a lot less (42% to be exact) than anticipated.

Ice flowers cold damage should be 1d6+8 per level per the release notes. My max caster level should be 15(base) + 3(AlchShieldColdAugmentation) + 3(Draconic Incarnation) + 3(Seasons Herald) + 3(Water Elemental Form) for 27 max caster levels.

So we could assume an average of 9535 cold damage per cast (11.5basedmg * 27caster levels * 10.41 (941 spell power) * 2.95 (spell crit dmg))

Here are 10 casts of the cold damage I have been putting out with this spell:
7093,6336,6177,6456,7293,6496,6894,6655,7014,6574= 6698 average

Can you please let me know if this is WAI?... I was pretty excited about the balance changes, but this damage output won't put druids in league with other caster classes whose spells have base damage up to 1d6+28 (AND no 15 maximum caster level).

Hopefully someone's listening out there?

[Tchtutax]

For what it's worth, I just tested Fire Storm (which is also 1d6+8 damage) and the damage falls right in line with where I would expect it to fall (9867,9511,9443,9920,9818,9486,9791,10299)

[Ultinoob]

I think you numbers are wrong.

Alchemical shield cold augmentation gives 3 caster levels not max caster levels, so your actual caster level is 24 i think. If i am mistaken and cold augmentation also gives max caster levels it would be great.

Also the tooltip for ice flowers says it is 1d6+3 of each and to me it seemed like that was the damage it did also. the tooltip says 1d6+3 and the actual damage seems to be in line with 1d6+3 for me that is. This is also what the release notes say and they have nerfed it into not being that useful anymore.

With the caster levels of 24 and a base damage of 1d6+3 per cold level how does your numbers compare?

Also the tooltip on word of balance says it does 1d8+8 damage per caster level now instead of the old per two caster levels and this also seems to be the damage it does. However the update notes says it should do 1d6+12.

To me they nerfed ice flowers too much. granted 1d6+8 times two per caster level seemed a bit high. 23 base damage per caster level where meteor swarm has 4d3+4 and 4d2+4 ~ 22. I know meteor swarm is a level 9 spell but it has max caster level 20 but you can get 3 max caster levels from sorc elemental form. 23*22=506.

Ice flowers is 2d6+6~13 and has a max caster level of 15+6 from druid ice form and seasons. This gets us to 273. This actually gets in line with dbf which does 1d6+7~10.5 and again has a max caster level of 23 totalling 23*10.5=241.5.

I must admit i am disapointed. Not that the damage is not 1d6+8 but that the devs nerfed it so much. Ice druids don't really have anything else for aoe except for tsunami. The devs gave us false hopes. I don't like that.

Also again i must point out two things. The +6 caster levels for druids should be a bonus not a means to lower the max caster level of a level 8 spell. Ice flowers does cold and force damage. In winter season force does not get buffed as much as a sorc can buff fire.

EDIT: Firestorm does 1d6+8=11.5 and is a level 7 spell with a max caster level of 20. Ice flowers is a level 8 spell with a max caster level of 15 and does 13 damage....

[Ultinoob]

There is something really odd.

6698/(2.95*10.41)=218.11

Now if the base damage is 1d6+3=6.5 your caster level is 33.5. Unless you included the damage from the piercing part?

[LurkingVeteran]

I think you numbers are wrong.

Alchemical shield cold augmentation gives 3 caster levels not max caster levels, so your actual caster level is 24 i think. If i am mistaken and cold augmentation also gives max caster levels it would be great.

Also the tooltip for ice flowers says it is 1d6+3 of each and to me it seemed like that was the damage it did also. the tooltip says 1d6+3 and the actual damage seems to be in line with 1d6+3 for me that is. This is also what the release notes say and they have nerfed it into not being that useful anymore.

With the caster levels of 24 and a base damage of 1d6+3 per cold level how does your numbers compare?

Also the tooltip on word of balance says it does 1d8+8 damage per caster level now instead of the old per two caster levels and this also seems to be the damage it does. However the update notes says it should do 1d6+12.

To me they nerfed ice flowers too much. granted 1d6+8 times two per caster level seemed a bit high. 23 base damage per caster level where meteor swarm has 4d3+4 and 4d2+4 ~ 22. I know meteor swarm is a level 9 spell but it has max caster level 20 but you can get 3 max caster levels from sorc elemental form. 23*22=506.

Ice flowers is 2d6+6~13 and has a max caster level of 15+6 from druid ice form and seasons. This gets us to 273. This actually gets in line with dbf which does 1d6+7~10.5 and again has a max caster level of 23 totalling 23*10.5=241.5.

I must admit i am disapointed. Not that the damage is not 1d6+8 but that the devs nerfed it so much. Ice druids don't really have anything else for aoe except for tsunami. The devs gave us false hopes. I don't like that.

Also again i must point out two things. The +6 caster levels for druids should be a bonus not a means to lower the max caster level of a level 8 spell. Ice flowers does cold and force damage. In winter season force does not get buffed as much as a sorc can buff fire.

EDIT: Firestorm does 1d6+8=11.5 and is a level 7 spell with a max caster level of 20. Ice flowers is a level 8 spell with a max caster level of 15 and does 13 damage....

CD is still 2 seconds right? It's going to be a bit hard to balance that spell if they buff it too much. I have no opinion on how druids fare now vs. other divines, I thought that AoV and maybe Cleric got maybe too large a buff from the math alone, but it's hard to tell without play-testing. I agree that Druid should do higher damage than FvS though, at least single target. OTOH, if they ever update persistent damage spells like Wall of Fire, Ice Storm etc, maybe druid will be fine.

[Ultinoob]

CD is still 2 seconds right? It's going to be a bit hard to balance that spell if they buff it too much. I have no opinion on how druids fare now vs. other divines, I thought that AoV and maybe Cleric got maybe too large a buff from the math alone, but it's hard to tell without play-testing. I agree that Druid should do higher damage than FvS though, at least single target. OTOH, if they ever update persistent damage spells like Wall of Fire, Ice Storm etc, maybe druid will be fine.

Yes cooldown is still 2 seconds.

You might be right. But i am still not liking the max caster level of 15 on a level 8 spell. Nor am i liking that a spell that does cold and force damage (like tsunami) and therefore can't be boosted as much as pure fire is doing less damage than a spell one level lower (Firestorm) if you consider caster level. And that druids in winter season get no bonus to force damage, therefore you can't compare them 1 to 1. The force damage is lacking 8 in spell crit chance and 45 spell power alone from druid.

Also gearing for cold and force is not easy. While gearing for fire alone is easy.

So i actually still think my point is valid. If they keep the 1d6+3 make it have a max caster level of minimum 20. Otherwise change it to 1d6+4.

[Tchtutax]

There is something really odd.

6698/(2.95*10.41)=218.11

Now if the base damage is 1d6+3=6.5 your caster level is 33.5. Unless you included the damage from the piercing part?

Ice Flowers says I'm casting at level 34 when I cast it, so that's interesting math at least.

[Tchtutax]

Yes cooldown is still 2 seconds.

You might be right. But i am still not liking the max caster level of 15 on a level 8 spell. Nor am i liking that a spell that does cold and force damage (like tsunami) and therefore can't be boosted as much as pure fire is doing less damage than a spell one level lower (Firestorm) if you consider caster level. And that druids in winter season get no bonus to force damage, therefore you can't compare them 1 to 1. The force damage is lacking 8 in spell crit chance and 45 spell power alone from druid.

Also gearing for cold and force is not easy. While gearing for fire alone is easy.

So i actually still think my point is valid. If they keep the 1d6+3 make it have a max caster level of minimum 20. Otherwise change it to 1d6+4.

Well, I'm just pointing out that the damage is out of line with what they have in the release notes. If sorc/wiz spells are at 1d6+28, I don't think it's outlandish to expect other classes to have something at 2d6+16

[Tchtutax]

CD is still 2 seconds right? It's going to be a bit hard to balance that spell if they buff it too much. I have no opinion on how druids fare now vs. other divines, I thought that AoV and maybe Cleric got maybe too large a buff from the math alone, but it's hard to tell without play-testing. I agree that Druid should do higher damage than FvS though, at least single target. OTOH, if they ever update persistent damage spells like Wall of Fire, Ice Storm etc, maybe druid will be fine.

Well, it might be a cooldown of 2 seconds, but you can only cast it once every 3 seconds.

My intention with this thread is just to point out that we don't appear to be in line with the release notes.

[Cordovan]

It should be 1d6+3 per level for Ice Flowers, although that was not correctly in the release notes until today.

[mikarddo]

It should be 1d6+3 per level for Ice Flowers, although that was not correctly in the release notes until today.

Doh, atleast I didnt manage to TR into a druid before finding out.

[Tchtutax]

It should be 1d6+3 per level for Ice Flowers, although that was not correctly in the release notes until today.

Ice Flowers: 2d6+6, or avg 13 per level base damage
Acid Well: 1d6+18, or avg 21.5 per level base damage

Acid Well does 65% more damage, and that's without discussing the difference in caster levels.

I was excited to see the devs throw out a "balance" release at first, and I try to keep my tone positive... but this isn't enough to pull it off, you guys. Please do something to bring Bard/Druid/Artificer (FvS/Cleric look pretty good after the update) up to at least 2/3 the damage out put of wiz/sorc? I don't think that's unreasonable to ask for?

[Ultinoob]

The spell flame strike is messed up too.

The tooltip says 2 things. 6 to 11 damage per caster level split halfway between divine and fire. below it says it does 1d6 +3 of each. And the release notes says 1d6+5 corresponding to 6 to 11 damage. I must admit i thought it was 1d6+5 of each...

So what it is intended to do?

Also if it is 1d6+3 of each we are back to a level 4 spell doing the same damage as a level 8 spell.

[Xario]

How disappoiting. They are so lazy.

On druid release, they during creating of Ice Flovers (8lvl) spells just by copy - past Flame Strike (4lvl) spell only changing fire to ice and divine to force elements and thought that it is ok.

After so many years, there is spells pass finaly and they did, the same, only to lie to us in release notes about to to made false hope.

Hm and I planned to play caster druid again next live.

[peng]

The description of the sonic blast spell (and the release notes) says it deals 1d6+1 damage per caster level, up to caster level 8. The spell-like ability in the spellsinger enhancement tree says 1d6+2 per caster level, capped at 10. The greater shout spell says it deals 1d6+3 damage per caster level (same as release notes), while the sla from fatesinger says 1d3+3 (same as the old version). The soundburst spell says it caps at [b]10[b] levels, while the sla from exalted angel says 15 (release notes say 15).

I tested the sonic blast spell and sla, and they both seem to be dealing 8d6+8 damage. I didn't have enough time to test the damage of the others. I submitted a bug report