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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U48.4 Preview 2: Balance Changes: Enhancements/Misc

    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    This is the BALANCE CHANGES: ENHANCEMENT TREES/MISC portion of the release notes.

    Preface
    The buffs we have done to these enhancement trees were centered around two goals - to provide a boost to spellcasting ability for Bard and Artificer, and to help equalize the disparity between Vanguard's T5 selection versus Knight of the Chalice and/or Kensei. We hope that these focused changes encourage a wider variety of offensive spellcasters. Artificer in particular suffered from a lack of immunity bypass, and we think this method (tying it directly to your runearm shots) bridges an important thematic and mechanical gap.

    Enhanced Spellpower causes several significant long-term gearing problems for both the casters who had elements represented and the casters who did not. Either you had access to your element, which forced you to always wear the appropriate belt, or you did not, and you were left behind by a large margin of power. This change removes a significant amount of disparity between elemental types of offensive and defensive casting, and was a necessary step to the comprehensive offensive spell pass we are doing at the same time.

    The changes to Shifter are primarily bugfixes, but we also wanted to give an avenue for advancing out of the Fatigue that occurs after Shifting for Shifters that don't get Tireless Rage from Barbarian. In addition, we wanted to bump the durability of Beasthide Shifters slightly. We're keeping an eye on the overall placement of Shifters and may continue to buff Shifters in the future if needed.

    Vanguard (Pal and Ftr) Tree
    • Shield to the Face has been merged into Armored Strength.
    • Disorienting Smash now applies 1d4 stacks of vuln instead of 1.
    • New T5: Shield Specialization V: +3 to hit, damage, and Armor Class when using a shield (req Shield Specialization IV).
    • New T5: Brutal Impact: You gain +1 Critical Damage Mult on a roll of a 19-20.


    Arcanotech (Art) Tree
    • New T5: Charged Recoil: Runearm shots now strip Electric Immunity for 10 seconds.
    • Arcanotech: Lightning Motes and Shocking Vulnerability are now 1ap/rank


    Spellsinger (Brd) Tree
    • Advanced Magical and Advanced Musical Studies are now merged and condensed together into one 2AP single-rank Enhancement named Advanced Musical Studies. It grants +200 Spellpoints, +3 Bard Songs, and will add the spell Hold Monster, Mass, to your spellbook at level 5.
    • Horn of Thunder's SLA is no longer a multiselector and is now 1AP per rank.


    Shifter & Razorclaw Shifter (Racial) Tree
    • The Beasthide, Wildhunt, and Razorclaw Shift feats now clearly state that their effects block things that cannot be used while Raging.
    • Empowered by Nature (both Wildhunt and Beasthide versions) and Destructive Shifting now also grant "You are now immune to Fatigue, including Fatigue from Shifting" in addition to their existing effects.
    • Threatening Shift now also grants +10 PRR in addition to its existing effects.
    • True Hunter now properly lists its Freedom of Movement effect, and no longer lists its nonexistent Immunity to Petrification.


    Thief Acrobat (Rog) Tree
    • Shadow Dodge and Quick Strikes are now 1ap/rank


    Misc Balance Changes
    • Enhanced Spellpower from all sources is now typed as Equipment spellpower.
    • Improved Martial Arts now work with all weapons you are centered with instead of just the basic ki weapons.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  2. #2

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    Could we get some notes like this next preview?
    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo;
    Warchanter (Brd) Tree
    • Iced Edges now adds 1d6/2d6/3d6 cold damage with attacks
    • The Frozen Fury Tier 3 adds an additional 1d6 damage to Iced Edges.
    • Northwind has been dropped to 1AP per tier. The cooldown timer has been halved. Tier 3 grants an additional 1d6 damage to Iced Edges.
    • Spinning Ice The cooldown timer has been halved. Tier 3 grants an additional 1d6 damage to Iced Edges.
    • Fighting Spirit: Adds +1 Competence critical range and multiplier to Two Handed and Hand and a Half weapons.
    • Skaldic Scream has had it's duration increased to 6 seconds per caster level, and cooldown reduced to 30 seconds.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • NEW - Setting Unarmed Strike back to what it was and attacking the real problem: Reinforced Fists items.
    • Fix the flipping non-proficiency penalties for Bear and Wolf wildshapes!
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.
    • Keep Lynnabel on task with updating the remaining legacy named loot to not suck.
    • Tiering the Runearms so that artificers aren’t screwed out of the advantages of Cannith Crafting in Epic levels on their signature item.

  3. #3
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    This is the BALANCE CHANGES: ENHANCEMENT TREES/MISC portion of the release notes.

    Preface
    The buffs we have done to these enhancement trees were centered around two goals - to provide a boost to spellcasting ability for Bard and Artificer, and to help equalize the disparity between Vanguard's T5 selection versus Knight of the Chalice and/or Kensei. We hope that these focused changes encourage a wider variety of offensive spellcasters. Artificer in particular suffered from a lack of immunity bypass, and we think this method (tying it directly to your runearm shots) bridges an important thematic and mechanical gap.

    Enhanced Spellpower causes several significant long-term gearing problems for both the casters who had elements represented and the casters who did not. Either you had access to your element, which forced you to always wear the appropriate belt, or you did not, and you were left behind by a large margin of power. This change removes a significant amount of disparity between elemental types of offensive and defensive casting, and was a necessary step to the comprehensive offensive spell pass we are doing at the same time.

    The changes to Shifter are primarily bugfixes, but we also wanted to give an avenue for advancing out of the Fatigue that occurs after Shifting for Shifters that don't get Tireless Rage from Barbarian. In addition, we wanted to bump the durability of Beasthide Shifters slightly. We're keeping an eye on the overall placement of Shifters and may continue to buff Shifters in the future if needed.

    Vanguard (Pal and Ftr) Tree
    • Shield to the Face has been merged into Armored Strength.
    • Disorienting Smash now applies 1d4 stacks of vuln instead of 1.
    • New T5: Shield Specialization V: +3 to hit, damage, and Armor Class when using a shield (req Shield Specialization IV).
    • New T5: Brutal Impact: You gain +1 Critical Damage Mult on a roll of a 19-20.


    Arcanotech (Art) Tree
    • New T5: Charged Recoil: Runearm shots now strip Electric Immunity for 10 seconds.
    • Arcanotech: Lightning Motes and Shocking Vulnerability are now 1ap/rank


    Spellsinger (Brd) Tree
    • Advanced Magical and Advanced Musical Studies are now merged and condensed together into one 2AP single-rank Enhancement named Advanced Musical Studies. It grants +200 Spellpoints, +3 Bard Songs, and will add the spell Hold Monster, Mass, to your spellbook at level 5.
    • Horn of Thunder's SLA is no longer a multiselector and is now 1AP per rank.


    Shifter & Razorclaw Shifter (Racial) Tree
    • The Beasthide, Wildhunt, and Razorclaw Shift feats now clearly state that their effects block things that cannot be used while Raging.
    • Empowered by Nature (both Wildhunt and Beasthide versions) and Destructive Shifting now also grant "You are now immune to Fatigue, including Fatigue from Shifting" in addition to their existing effects.
    • Threatening Shift now also grants +10 PRR in addition to its existing effects.
    • True Hunter now properly lists its Freedom of Movement effect, and no longer lists its nonexistent Immunity to Petrification.


    Thief Acrobat (Rog) Tree
    • Shadow Dodge and Quick Strikes are now 1ap/rank


    Misc Balance Changes
    • Enhanced Spellpower from all sources is now typed as Equipment spellpower.
    • Improved Martial Arts now work with all weapons you are centered with instead of just the basic ki weapons.
    Any chance we could get armored strength up to 20 MP to compete a little bit more with kensei?

  4. #4
    Hatchery Founder Ganak's Avatar
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    While we are updating Vanguard:

    Please consider giving Vanguard a Sprint Action Boost option (selector to choose as an alternative to existing tier 2 Action Boost: Melee Power).

    The notion of the Vanguard is being in the front.
    The Nak Abides - Argo - Ascent
    Ganak Goblinjuicer ~ Xanak the Irregular

  5. #5
    Hatchery Founder Ganak's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    Vanguard (Pal and Ftr) Tree
    • Shield to the Face has been merged into Armored Strength.
    • Disorienting Smash now applies 1d4 stacks of vuln instead of 1.
    • New T5: Shield Specialization V: +3 to hit, damage, and Armor Class when using a shield (req Shield Specialization IV).
    • New T5: Brutal Impact: You gain +1 Critical Damage Mult on a roll of a 19-20.
    In the case of Fighters, the choice between Vanguard and Kensai is not exclusive to the T5, but also the T6 core capstone and there is a gap.


    Vanguard Shield Champion:
    +2 attack, +2 damage
    +5% doublestrike
    +1(W) to your shield
    An additional +5% Combat Style bonus to Melee Attack Speed
    Shield bash stuns 10% of the time

    Kensei Alacrity:
    +2 to all ability scores
    +15% Doublestrike
    +15% Doubleshot
    +4 Action Boost uses
    +2 to the DCs of all Tactical Feats
    +2 uses of Power Surge per Rest.




    Suggestions for Vanguard Shield Champion:
    1. Change from +2 attack, +2 damage TO +2 to all ability scores. The reasoning is that +2 to ability scores > +2 hit/dmg.

    2. Change from +5% doublestrike to +15% Doublestrike to match Kensei.



    Also as noted already, think about an increase for Armored Strength to +20 Melee


    With these further suggested changes, it will entice my FTR vanguard build to make the full investment into Vanguard (and not T5 and capstone Kensai). With the proposed changes as is, I'm not sold.


    Also, it would be GREAT if Shield Rush (T5) matched Dire Charge in its stun ability and would be a big boon/benefit to the build. Dire Charge > Shield Rush, and it's unwieldy to employ both.
    The Nak Abides - Argo - Ascent
    Ganak Goblinjuicer ~ Xanak the Irregular

  6. #6
    Nerino & Daniele's Souls Malex's Avatar
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    Default

    I wont be fighting against the removal of that spell power type (as many do), since Devs have been trying to get it done for so long, but at the very least I want the items not becoming completly useless, especially the long farmed LGS. These are some options (pick whatever seems more feasible, or find something else I did not think about)

    - Change ravenloft belts to a (MUCH, MUCH) lower exceptional spell power. This makes it still a good item, but takes away the stacking nature, but giving it still a purpose, since exceptional spell power is difficult to come by. This spell power, compared to the other source (LGS 3rd slot) would be around 40-45. A respectable number for a fully invested nuker, but not game breaking
    - For LGS sticks, it's a bit more tricky, because they already have exceptional at T3. There are some options though (this could also be used for ravenloft, but I liked the idea of exceptional):
    A- Alchemical spell power (same value as the top potion). This is interesting, because at first it seems stacking, but actually doesnt stack with Inferno potions and the likes. People doing top end content are already using this potions to get top DPS, so for them it is still a nerf, but it may be convenient in saving potion time; also for more casual people it would alleviate the nerf a bit. If our element doesnt have access, you still have the potion.
    B- Psionic spell power (20): this doesnt stack with meridian fragment. Gives an alternative in not needing that augment, but if your element doesnt have access, you still have the augment. Still mostly a convenience.
    C- This is very specifically for LGS: add a (chance of a) stack of burning ambition on that element (same effect as alchemist). Basically you get back some DPS in a different fashion.

  7. #7
    Hatchery Founder Ganak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    Any chance we could get armored strength up to 20 MP to compete a little bit more with kensei?
    I'll also add a rebuttal to the line of thought that the update of "Shield to the Face has been merged into Armored Strength" is balancing out the +20 Melee power equivalent with Kensai.

    With shield bash proc rate capped at once per second, adding 10% has steeply diminishing returns.

    So with:
    Improved Shield Bash for +20%
    Shield Combat I: +10% chance
    Vicious Shield I: additional +10% (total +20%)
    Shield Combat II: additional +10% (total 30%)

    That takes us to 50%.

    Then add an equipment bonus (say 33% found on Legendary Ferrocrystal Shield), which puts us at 83%.

    Adding 10% from the new Armored Strength? Meh, +20 melee power much more impactful (pun intended).

    Perhaps +15 Melee power is middle ground?



    Many thanks for taking the time to update Vanguard. Really appreciate the good work!
    The Nak Abides - Argo - Ascent
    Ganak Goblinjuicer ~ Xanak the Irregular

  8. #8
    Community Member MrChipinator's Avatar
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    Default Bonk

    I know there's whispers of a true Monk revamp floating in the astral sea, but Henshin Mystic (one of the few THF builds that is most definitely not over-performing currently) has basically no Strikethrough Enhancements that improve their Quarterstaff centric style and they're missing a 4th tier and TWO level 5 slots.

    Could we see something like

    Tier 4: Mystic Motions: You are adept at engaging many foes at once. +10%/20%/30% Strikethrough per rank, 1 AP each?
    The tree already could use a couple more useful filler options to get to 41 AP spent...

    If you could find it in your hearts to give the Durability enhancement to that tree (and Thief Acrobat!!) that'd be amazing, since good leveling Quarterstaves are limited in availability and are so fragile, especially against Oozes and the like.

    Nobody would complain or call it overpowered if you tacked on (25/50/75)% Durability boosts to the Quick Strike enhancement. Just a little something to make it slightly easier for an already underperforming subclass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    If given the choice to trust either actual data or what the forums are saying, I will choose the actual data every single time.

  9. #9
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    Default

    Have spell blades (I.e. vile chemist, eldritch knight and to a lesser extent swashbuckler and warpriest) been considered in the balance update?

    They are getting a significant nerf by removing the enhancement bonus to spell power but without getting bumps in spell dice damage to compensate. They aren't exactly top tier DPS as it is.

    Could they instead be made to scale off melee or ranged weapon power?

  10. #10
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    Default Spell power cap

    Can we have a spell power cap instead of the enhancement item nerf?

    Cap spell power at some reasonable number, say, 30 * character level. It would be a nerf to the top end of nukers but wouldn't hurt new and casual players.
    Kmnh * Kmn * Kmm * Knn * Knm

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  11. #11
    2015 DDO Players Council Sebastrd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Misc Balance Changes
    • Enhanced Spellpower from all sources is now typed as Equipment spellpower.


    I'd really rather these were changed to Quality Spellpower or, better yet, Insightful Spellpower/Insightful Spell Lore. That way there'd still be a reason to use them for people that want the Beacon of Magic Set Bonus or to get something useful out of their LGS off-hand.
    Astreya the Unturning

    It's always a shame when the hammer of poor design choices smashes the fun of player tactical adaptation.

  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    Spellsinger (Brd) Tree
    • Advanced Magical and Advanced Musical Studies are now merged and condensed together into one 2AP single-rank Enhancement named Advanced Musical Studies. It grants +200 Spellpoints, +3 Bard Songs, and will add the spell Hold Monster, Mass, to your spellbook at level 5.
    • Horn of Thunder's SLA is no longer a multiselector and is now 1AP per rank.


    While I appreciate the AP cost reduction, as well as the addition of the spell to our spellbook, has there been any discussion in regards to the cool down? Thirty seconds is still one hell of a cooldown. Still, I suppose being able to rotate through the SLA and the actual spell will help. Lord knows as a spellsinger I have plenty of mana.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    Could we get some notes like this next preview?
    Where are you quoting these Warchanter changes from? Are they in the upcoming U48 Patch4 ?!?
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    Where are you quoting these Warchanter changes from? Are they in the upcoming U48 Patch4 ?!?
    yes i hope they are for real . this will stop bards from being forced into SWF. notes i add or changes need to be added is melee power (also needs be added some where in clr/fav soul melee trees too) i add +10 melee power to armorer only while in med ,+5 in weapon training,
    The Leader of The Original Brotherhood

    The game becomes fun once you stop caring how long it take to lvl

  15. #15
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantumFX View Post
    Could we get some notes like this next preview?

    Please don't label things as a quote from Cordo if they are simply your wishes.

    That isn't a good look.

    EDIT: Quoted the wrong person myself, edited to fix
    Last edited by Stravix; 02-17-2021 at 10:43 AM.

  16. #16
    2016 DDO Players Council
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    Where are you quoting these Warchanter changes from? Are they in the upcoming U48 Patch4 ?!?
    Sadly that quote is fake. You can tell because real quotes have the double arrow next to them that have a link to the original post. Like where I quoted you above vs:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hipparan;
    Swim Clerics are obviously the best builds in the game! If anyone is playing Cleric any other way, they're playing it wrong.

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hipparan View Post
    Sadly that quote is fake. You can tell because real quotes have the double arrow next to them that have a link to the original post. Like where I quoted you above vs:
    I thought as much, but hoped against hope that there was a grain of truth to some Warchanter changes.
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  18. #18
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    Default Shadar Kai

    Hi,

    While you're looking at enhancements, is there any chance you can look at the Shadar Kai tree? The spinning chain attack is really not usable and the tree just does not offer very much. There is so much focus on the spiked chain that most would agree is useless. All you're getting is some + to int and several sneak attack dice. Look at the rest of the iconic trees: most have bonuses to multiple weapons or provide unique usable abilities...

  19. #19
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    I’ve come around to understand and accept most of the nerfs except changing enhancement sp to equipment. It’s just too big IMO. Lessening the values would be more acceptable to still make it viable gear. Also, for me, it was comforting to have that spot for the belt and it was the absolute best option. Because of that I loaded all the augments on it. This change goes through as is I’m going to need jewel kits to remove these augments. I pity those who have numerous alts using this belt with augments in place.

    Again, PLEASE, reconsider to at least make these items (belt and lgs) an option for people instead of making these items obsolete. Decrease the values or change sp type to something other than equipment.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arlathen View Post
    I thought as much, but hoped against hope that there was a grain of truth to some Warchanter changes.
    Yeah, I though the playerbase was aware how the QUOTE tag works on these forums. But, maybe the devs will read through the thread, see that "Hey, there's a lot of interest in playing an actual Warchanter archetype, and not a Swashbuckler archetype" and finally do something about it.
    Things worthy of Standing Stone going EXTREME PREJUDICE™ on.:
    • NEW - Setting Unarmed Strike back to what it was and attacking the real problem: Reinforced Fists items.
    • Fix the flipping non-proficiency penalties for Bear and Wolf wildshapes!
    • Redoing the drop rates of tomes in generic and raid loot tables.
    • Keep Lynnabel on task with updating the remaining legacy named loot to not suck.
    • Tiering the Runearms so that artificers aren’t screwed out of the advantages of Cannith Crafting in Epic levels on their signature item.

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