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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U48.4 Preview 2: Balance Changes: Spells

    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    This is the BALANCE CHANGES: SPELLS portion of the release notes.

    Preface
    Nukers are fairly strong right now overall, but we've identified two particular outliers: Alchemists and Fire Sorcerers. There are several factors involved in why they're ahead of others, but one of the largest factors in both are their top-end spells. Multivial and Meteor Swarm are significantly ahead of their fellow top-end-nuker spells, largely due to good damage dice, below-average cooldowns, and significant boosts to caster levels. As a result, we've brought those spells down to be much closer to Acid Well, Iceberg, and Thunderstroke - and met in the middle on cooldowns, buffing those three spells in the process. While this won't solve all disparities between nukers and other kinds of characters, we believe this brings them a little closer together, makes other kinds of wizards and sorcerers a little more viable, and makes partying with these nukers less one-sided.

    On the other side of the spectrum, a lot of offensive spellcasters that don't have access to the Wizard and Sorcerer spell list needed a boost. This patch targets offensive spells across a wide variety of builds and aims to bring up the floor of the spellcaster spectrum considerably. We have also fixed key bugs with Druid to allow its premier CC ability, Earthquake, to correctly scale its Duration in Reaper Mode. We have also made a special effort to target underused spellbooks, such as Artificer, by giving them access to key offensive spells to round out their repertoire. Finally, we have additional plans in certain enhancement trees that address some remaining concerns with Spellsinger and Arcanotechnician specifically. We expect these changes to significantly boost the viability of Divine, Druid, Bardic, and Artificer offensive spellcasters across all levels of play.

    Alchemist, Sorcerer, and Wizard Spells
    • Iceberg's cooldown has been reduced to 6 seconds for Sorcerers, 9 seconds for Wizards.
    • Thunderstroke's cooldown has been reduced to 6 seconds for Sorcerers, 9 seconds for Wizards.
    • Acid Well's cooldown has been reduced to 6 seconds for Sorcerers, 9 seconds for Wizards.
    • Meteor Swarm's cooldown has been raised to 6 seconds for Sorcerers, 9 seconds for Wizards.
    • Multivial's cooldown has been raised to 9 seconds.
    • Multivial's damage dice has changed to 1d4+3 (Element) per caster level per projectile.
    • Master of Spellvials no longer applies to Multivial.
    • Multivial spells now cost 40 SP for both the core spell and the Bombardier SLA versions.
    • Fixed Multivial's tooltip to show the correct Max Caster Level (20).
    • Meteor Swarm's Max Caster Level has been reduced from 30 to 20 to match Iceberg, Thunderstroke, Acid Well, and Multivial.


    Artificer Spells
    • The spell Static Shock has had its damage dice changed to 1d6 per caster level.
    • The spell Lightning Sphere has had its damage dice changed to 1d6 per caster level.
    • The spell Elemental prod has has been reworked:
    • Touch Range. Target enemy takes 1d6 per caster level in two of three elements (Fire, Force, or Electric) chosen randomly each time. Elementals are also Dazed.
    • The spell Blast Rod has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Lightning Motes has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+2 per caster level.
    • The spell Prismatic Strike has been reworked:
    • Ray spell. Enemy takes 1d6 per caster level in two of three elements (Fire, Force, or Electric) chosen randomly each time. The enemy is also subject to 2 of 3 CC effects (from the original Prismatic Strike) chosen randomly each time.
    • The spell Tactical Detonation has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level for both Fire and Force damage.


    Bard Spells
    • The spell Sonic Blast has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level.
    • The spell Soundburst has had tis damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level, and now has a Max Caster Level of 15.
    • The spell Shout has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Greater Shout has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Horn of Thunder has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 Sonic and Electric per caster level.


    Cleric/Favored Soul Spells
    • The spell Nimbus of Light has had its damage dice changed to 1d6 per caster level, and now has a Max Caster Level of 15.
    • The spell Inflict Light Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+2 per caster level.
    • The spell Chill Touch has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+2 per caster level.
    • The spell Deific Vengeance has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+4 per caster level.
    • The spell Inflict Moderate Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+4 per caster level.
    • The spell Searing Light has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    • The spell Inflict Serious Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    • The spell Sun Bolt has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spells Chaos Hammer/Holy Smite/Order's Wrath/Unholy Blight have had their damage dice changed to 1d6+8 per caster level.
    • The spell Inflict Critical Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+10 per caster level.
    • The spell Flame Strike has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+5 per caster level.
    • The spell Slay Living has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+10 per caster level.
    • The spell Cometfall has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Destruction has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+10 per caster level and now has a Max Caster Level of 20.
    • The spell Fire Storm has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+8 per caster level.


    Druid Spells
    • The spell Produce Flame has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level.
    • The spell Splinterbolt has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+4 per caster level.
    • The spell Salt Ray has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    • The spell Call Lightning has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    • The spell Fire Seeds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6 per caster level (per PROJECTILE).
    • The spell Word of Balance has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+12 per caster level.
    • The spell Sunbeam has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+7 per caster level (no max caster level, so it's lower than other spells of this type/level).
    • The spell Sunburst has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+4 damage per caster level.
    • The spell Ice Flowers has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+8 Piercing and 1d6+8 Cold damage per caster level.


    Additional Spell-Related Changes/Clarifications
    • The Inflict Wounds, Mass spells will now use the new versions of their dice as per above.
    • Additionally, the Inflict Wounds spells will only use this new dice against enemies. This will not adjust potential self-healing for Undead players.
    • The Druid spells Call Lightning Storm and Storm of Vengeance will now use the new Call Lightning damage dice.
    • Artificer now has access to the level 1 Sor/Wiz spells Fire Bolt and Shocking Bolt.
    • Artificer now has access to Chain Lightning at spell level level 6.
    • Admixture spells are now properly restricted with Epic Defensive Fighting.
    • All lingering spells (such as Web, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, and Evards) now correctly calculate their duration in Reaper and obey the 6 second floor. This means that spells such as Earthquake will now function even in Reaper 10, where previously they ended almost as soon as they were cast.
    • The feat Epic Eldritch Blast is now: +2d6 Blast Dice, +1 per 2 Epic levels, max +7d6 dice at level 30.
    • The feat Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast is now Epic Pact Dice, and grants +1 Pact dice, +1 per 2 Epic Levels, for a max +6d4 Pact Dice at level 30.
    • Meteor Swarm is no longer penalized by Fire Sorcerer Savant
    • There are now 5 new Alchemist spells, the Concentrated Vial spells, in levels 2 and 3. They deal 1d6 damage +1 per caster level every 2 seconds for 16 seconds, can stack 3x.


    Bugs Fixed Since Preview 1
    • Elemental prod/prismatic strike now can damage non-elementals.
    • Spell tooltips for season's herald are now accurate.
    • Heartstopper Poison can now be chosen by alchemists when they level up.
    • A variety of spells have had their damage dice fixed.
    Last edited by Cocomajobo; 02-16-2021 at 01:10 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal
    By the way... How about "Master of" feats let us bypass Element Immunity?
    For example:
    • Master of Fire: Now your fire spells bypass the fire immunity of your target enemies.
    • Master of Light: Now your light spells bypass the light immunity of your target enemies.
    • Master of the dead: Now your negative spells bypass the negative immunity of your target enemies. (can deal the undead and construct with negative damage)
    • Master of Alignment: Now your alignment spells don't need to be the opposite alignment of your target enemies to deal them. (*You can deal Archons and Angels by Holy Smite)


    the most problem why other spellcasters (beside Alch and Sorc) can't be the main is that all of them don't have element bypass feature unlike them. It even forces sorcerers to be 20-level.
    This was what I suggested in the previous thread. It'll be appreciated if you seriously consider this. Pact Dice damage feat is interesting, but It won't be meaningfully helpful until they have element bypass.


    P.S. Someone in official DDO Discord asked if you can consider adding Lightning Bolt MCL +10 to Master of Artifice feat since they have Lightning Bolt now.
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  3. #3
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal View Post
    This was what I suggested in the previous thread. It'll be appreciated if you seriously consider this. Pact Dice damage feat is interesting, but It won't be meaningfully helpful until they have element bypass.


    P.S. Someone in official DDO Discord asked if you can consider adding Lightning Bolt MCL +10 to Master of Artifice feat since they have Lightning Bolt now.
    That (the lightning bolt part at least) should def be done, but they should make it and Master of Air mutually exclusive, to not have +20 MCL lightning bolt

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo
    There are now 5 new Alchemist spells, the Concentrated Vial spells, in levels 2 and 3. They deal 1d6 damage +1 per caster level every 2 seconds for 16 seconds, can stack 3x.
    So, to be honest, I don't think you really considered this properly since I don't think we are a fan of Dot spells (*Divine Punishment, Eladar, Niac) as their damage is underperforming these days.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    That (the lightning bolt part at least) should def be done, but they should make it and Master of Air mutually exclusive, to not have +20 MCL lightning bolt
    ah, you're right. that'll be a sick boost... or merge them into one rather than being separated..?
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  6. #6
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal View Post
    So, to be honest, I don't think you really considered this properly since I don't think we are a fan of Dot spells (*Divine Punishment, Eladar, Niac) as their damage is underperforming these days.
    Honestly, my thoughts are mixed, while it won't serve it's designed purpose of helping alchs level (which is where AoE is king) a more single target heavy DoT caster would be amazing to have in raids. Do we know the MCL for these, and if it is (1d6+1)*CL, or 1d6 + 1*CL? Because if it is the former, that would be really nice.

  7. #7
    Bounty Hunter slarden's Avatar
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    Default Warlock Feedback

    Thank you for the additional pact dice you added. This definitely offsets the loss of the enhancement spellpower and adds a small amount of dps on top of that which was very needed.

    Comparing this to other spells:

    Quote Originally Posted by Rull View Post
    thunderstrike 190
    AOE chain lighting 190
    AOE blast fireball 210
    AOE Fire Storm 230
    AOE Horn of Thunder 260
    AOE tactical detonation 260
    Word of Balance 310
    destruction (on save) 270
    AOE ice flowers 345
    AOE acid well 430
    AOE meteor swarm 440
    AOE multivial 440
    Word of Balance vs Chaotic/Lawful Evil 620
    thunderstroke 630
    iceberg 630
    Before the change warlock was at 91.5 (using 130% spellpower scaling) and now it will be 111.15 which is much appreciated.

    I understand the concern with raising warlock dice too much as it also impacts all of the warlock aoe SLAs as well. I would like to suggest raising the single target basic eld blast from scaling to 130% spellpower to scaling with 160% spellpower as it won't boost AOE damage, but will give warlocks a bit more single-target dps which they need. That would give the single-target blast 136.8 without impacting any of the AOE slas and shapes which would range from 81.25 to 128.25. The single-target blast also doesn't benefit from metamagic where most of the spells above do. In addition many spells can be increased beyond their max caster level which further increases the potential of some of the spells above.

    My goal here is to boost warlock dps to a level where it's useful for boss fights in raids but certainly not over-powered.
    Last edited by slarden; 02-16-2021 at 01:46 PM.
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  8. #8
    Community Member TPICKRELL's Avatar
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    Default Warlock Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Thank you for the additional pact dice you added. This definitely offsets the loss of the enhancement spellpower and adds a small amount of dps on top of that which was very needed.

    Comparing this to other spells:



    Before the change warlock was at 91.5 (using 130% spellpower scaling) and now it will be 111.15 which is much appreciated.

    I understand the concern with raising warlock dice too much as it also impacts all of the warlock aoe SLAs as well. I would like to suggest raising the single target basic eld blast from scaling to 130% spellpower to scaling with 160% spellpower as it won't boost AOE damage, but will give warlocks a bit more single-target dps which they need. That would give the single-target blast 136.8 without impacting any of the AOE slas and shapes which would range from 81.25 to 128.25. The single-target blast also doesn't benefit from metamagic where most of the spells above do. In addition many spells can be increased beyond their max caster level which further increases the potential of some of the spells above.

    My goal here is to boost warlock dps to a level where it's useful for boss fights in raids but certainly not over-powered.
    Some quick spreadsheeting indicates that this is a 25% increase in eldritch blast damage assuming no resistance to pact damage. The shift to pact damage in the Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast feat takes away some of this increase since we dont have elemental bypass as a warlock.

    This is a much appreciated change, but its more heavily elemental based than before and I doubt its enough to bring DPS up to the same ballpark as other dps casters. I'll give it a try, but I am still concerned that my DPS will be a fraction of all other casters and of most other ranged toons.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal View Post
    So, to be honest, I don't think you really considered this properly since I don't think we are a fan of Dot spells (*Divine Punishment, Eladar, Niac) as their damage is underperforming these days.
    I think that the largest issue with Eldar's and Niac's is that it takes 20 seconds for them to ramp up to maximum stacks. They'd probably be much more tolerable if their cooldowns were reduced to like 2 or 3 seconds so you could build stacks quickly.


    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    Thank you for the additional pact dice you added. This definitely offsets the loss of the enhancement spellpower and adds a small amount of dps on top of that which was very needed.

    I would like to suggest raising the single target basic eld blast from scaling to 130% spellpower to scaling with 160% spellpower as it won't boost AOE damage, but will give warlocks a bit more single-target dps which they need. That would give the single-target blast 136.8 without impacting any of the AOE slas and shapes which would range from 81.25 to 128.25. The single-target blast also doesn't benefit from metamagic where most of the spells above do. In addition many spells can be increased beyond their max caster level which further increases the potential of some of the spells above.

    My goal here is to boost warlock dps to a level where it's useful for boss fights in raids but certainly not over-powered.
    Agreed on both counts.

    With all of that said, while you're making changes to the damage dice of a bunch of spells, would it be possible to go back and make changes to some of the other arcane spells? I'd suggest:

    1. Raise the MCL for Acid Spray, Burning Hands, Chill Touch and Shocking Grasp from 5 to 10 to match the 1st level "Bolt" spells.
    2. Change Electric Loop's scaling from every two caster levels to every caster level.
    3. Raise the base damage for Disintegrate (allowing a save for half instead of 6d3+12) , Polar Ray (dropping MCL to 20), Horrid Wilting, Ruin, Greater Ruin, Hellball and Arcane Pulse to be in line with other spells of their level. Also raise the missile damage for Magic Missile, Chain Missile and Force Missile so that they're actually useful.
    4. As noted above, reduce the cooldown on stacking DoT's so that they stack much more quickly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    Honestly, my thoughts are mixed, while it won't serve it's designed purpose of helping alchs level (which is where AoE is king) a more single target heavy DoT caster would be amazing to have in raids. Do we know the MCL for these, and if it is (1d6+1)*CL, or 1d6 + 1*CL? Because if it is the former, that would be really nice.
    They haven't been, aren't and won't be the former.


    * Venom is 2-level spell.


    * the other regular elements are 3-level spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by niknight View Post
    I think that the largest issue with Eldar's and Niac's is that it takes 20 seconds for them to ramp up to maximum stacks. They'd probably be much more tolerable if their cooldowns were reduced to like 2 or 3 seconds so you could build stacks quickly.
    I can agree. Divine Punishment(5-level spell) is more than cancer to cast because its cooldown time is too long when comparing to Niac and Eladar(4-level spells).
    Last edited by Targal; 02-16-2021 at 02:10 PM.
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    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal View Post
    They haven't been, aren't and won't be.


    * Venom is 2-level spell.

    * the other regular elements are 3-level spells.



    I can agree. Divine Punishment(5-level spell) is more than cancer to cast because its cooldown time is too long when comparing to Niac and Eladar(4-level spells).
    That is a shame, thanks for hopping on to confirm.

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    Haven't gotten on yet, did they fix Firestorms bugged targeting / damage yet? Raising the damage is nice and all but won't help me if the spell remains in it's current almost unusable state.

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    I am really glad you decided not to nerf ice flowers.

    It is a transmutation spell after all where most other druid spells are evocation. It seems fair to be rewarded for having to focus on two spell lines... maybe even 3. Evocation (obviously), necromancy (Finger of death) and now transmutation.

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    Community Member Arkai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Targal View Post
    So, to be honest, I don't think you really considered this properly since I don't think we are a fan of Dot spells (*Divine Punishment, Eladar, Niac) as their damage is underperforming these days.
    That's true, I'm sick of DoT spells so if that's the only thing we are getting after the nerfs, I will just tr out of alchemist to never touch it again :/

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    Please boost spellsinger's reverberate (damage over time sla), and maybe also boost horn of thunder and/or greater shout a bit more.

    Spellsingers have *no* single-target damage spells other than reverberate, and its damage is pitiful. Please change the damage to *at least* 1d6 +1 per caster level (currently 1d10 + 1 per *3* caster levels). Also, lower the cooldown on all similar dots.

    Greater shout is a lvl 6 bard, lvl 8 sorc/wiz spell, but has the same damage dice as level 3 sorc/wiz spells.
    Last edited by peng; 02-16-2021 at 05:01 PM.

  16. #16
    Bounty Hunter slarden's Avatar
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    Default My warlock can only dream of complaining about a dot like this

    Quote Originally Posted by Arkai View Post
    That's true, I'm sick of DoT spells so if that's the only thing we are getting after the nerfs, I will just tr out of alchemist to never touch it again :/
    The dot does base 360 damage at 20 compared to eldritch blast 111.15 and can be boosted by metamagic and improved with max caster level boosts unlike eld blast.

    I would LOVE to complain about a spell like this in the warlock arsenal.

    Please can I have?
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  17. #17
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    The dot does base 360 damage at 20 compared to eldritch blast 111.15 and can be boosted by metamagic and improved with max caster level boosts unlike eld blast.

    I would LOVE to complain about a spell like this in the warlock arsenal.

    Please can I have?
    +1, I legit laughed when I read that.

    We honestly need some more support for a sustained damage caster, and alch and warlock look like they should be the premier options therein. I would love to see them get realized in that.

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    Ok it seems Firestorm is still bugged with targeting and damage applying really late.

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    Default Re: Warlock Eldritch Blast changes.

    Thank you for the scaling Warlock Dice damage - this is a good change. As per the notes, the new feat is:

    The feat Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast is now Epic Pact Dice, and grants +1 Pact dice, +1 per 2 Epic Levels, for a max +6d4 Pact Dice at level 30.

    The average for 6d4 is 15.

    Currently, the feat on the live servers is: +4d6 Eldritch Blast dice which is an average of 14.

    Was it intended to change the level 26 epic destiny from blast dice to pact dice? If so, could we see a bit of a higher increase? Otherwise as per the preview when we take the feat at 26, we'll actually have less damage at that level than on live. Thanks for your consideration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BrokenAgain View Post
    Thank you for the scaling Warlock Dice damage - this is a good change. As per the notes, the new feat is:

    The feat Epic Arcane Eldritch Blast is now Epic Pact Dice, and grants +1 Pact dice, +1 per 2 Epic Levels, for a max +6d4 Pact Dice at level 30.

    The average for 6d4 is 15.

    Currently, the feat on the live servers is: +4d6 Eldritch Blast dice which is an average of 14.

    Was it intended to change the level 26 epic destiny from blast dice to pact dice? If so, could we see a bit of a higher increase? Otherwise as per the preview when we take the feat at 26, we'll actually have less damage at that level than on live. Thanks for your consideration.

    The 4d6 eldritch blast dice got folded into the Epic Eldritch Blast feat. Instead of being just 3d6, it's now 2d6 plus an additional d6 per 2 epic levels, for a total of 7d6.

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