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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varr View Post
    Lol, 9.2 Million, whoa. Gross, not even net income. Whoa! Our disconnect is likely in the definition of Rich. I'm quite comfortable with my understanding of the financials and how DDO makes up about 10% of their Gross. And how the 41% margins means they have about 4 mill to kick around when it is all said and done. Pretty sure you need to dig a little deeper on what makes companies tick and how 125 emails from DDO dopes to a handful of the board members secretaries will do nothing more than annoy the secretaries.

    To put it in perspective, the 260th player in the NBA Jake Layman nets about the same as DDO does. And he gets all of it with his 6 pts a game and 15 minutes off the bench. I guess he is rich, not NBA or Corporation Rich, but like DDO gamer rich.

    The average of the emails goes like..........oh we don't like what's happening and feel like we deserve free respecs and stuff. Garbage to be ignored ranging up to garbage to be annoyed by.
    Moving the goal posts won't help.

  2. #42
    Community Member Varr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LT218 View Post
    Moving the goal posts won't help.
    How about I say you are right, I don’t know what I was thinking. You have won the argument while at the same time enlightening me.

    Congrats! Victory is yours.

    Please feel empowered with my support to spend time writing to the very invested board and make change happen! As I said earlier, it’s an epically foolish idea, but I see your qualifications are strong.

    Enjoy Cyberpunk as you wait for what is sure to be a quick and productive response to your emailed grievances.
    Last edited by Varr; 02-12-2021 at 01:43 AM.
    Varr's all over. Cannith Varr getting the love currently.

  3. #43
    Community Member Gniewomir's Avatar
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    While i'm the first to admit ssg is greedy, tho lets be honest - if they did not released +20 hearts, then today instead of this thread we would have one like "so, you nerfed classes and now you're not allowing us to buy hearts and move on from those junk post-nerf builds without relvling?!". Ofc it's bad PR, but at least those who would indeed prefer to buy hearts rather than full reincarnation got opportunity to do so. It's perfectly logical to bring hearts back to store when nerf is happening, cause despite the fact that everyone knew for last 12 months that sorc/alche nerf is coming - if they gave opportunity to buy hearts 3 months ago now everyone would be whining that they had no idea the nerf will come and they didnt bought hearts when they had opportunity.

    And if we speak about being greedy...
    Quote Originally Posted by LT218 View Post
    snip
    10$s for one of the best rpg ever created with all the expansions while 15 years old mmorpg for 10$s offers you one hireling, one f2p class, one race, 5 quests (less than 1% out of 500+ available in game). This is something imo players should really whine about.

  4. #44
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gniewomir View Post
    While i'm the first to admit ssg is greedy, tho lets be honest - if they did not released +20 hearts, then today instead of this thread we would have one like "so, you nerfed classes and now you're not allowing us to buy hearts and move on from those junk post-nerf builds without relvling?!". Ofc it's bad PR, but at least those who would indeed prefer to buy hearts rather than full reincarnation got opportunity to do so. It's perfectly logical to bring hearts back to store when nerf is happening, cause despite the fact that everyone knew for last 12 months that sorc/alche nerf is coming - if they gave opportunity to buy hearts 3 months ago now everyone would be whining that they had no idea the nerf will come and they didnt bought hearts when they had opportunity.
    To a point, there's truth in this.
    But I purchased a product from them. We'll call it a Porche. It goes well above the speed limit, spews carbon, etc... (Which the manufacturer knew it would...)
    The coding was changed in how that purchased item works. It's now a Prius. It can barely reach the highway speed limit, gets 50 miles on a charge, and people point/ laugh at you.

    Making a single +20 heart available to address most of the grief this change in quality caused requires... nothing. 1 free heart for every account... It buys a small amount of goodwill, though. It avoids the crassness of the money grab in a +20 heart being made available.

    Heck, I don't even want to heart. It's the poorly conceived manner in which they did this whole thing. At least fake that you care about the customer.
    I'm starting to get jaded about this whole process- OP release, backend nerf- it's the proverbial mule and the carrot and I end up feeling like an ***.

  5. #45
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    The +20 Heart sale is just to let players who have already built their final toons move out of those toons if they are heavily affected by the nerfs.

    Other people will buy the hearts, which normally are not in the store, but the intended market is as a relatively cheap life raft for people who think their final build is sinking due to the changes.

    I bought a +20 heart like 5 years ago alongside a +5. I have yet to use either because it is easy to cap a toon and TR into whatever you want fix or do next.

    The sale I'd like to see is a real sale on +1 Hearts. I've never understood why they are so expensive when many people would buy them like penny candy if they had a reasonable cost. Think about it, $3 or $4 bucks to get rid of the Iconic character first level is an expense that many people would pay. SSG would probably sell those hearts at a 10-1 ratio over what they do now.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varr View Post
    How about I say you are right, I don’t know what I was thinking. You have won the argument while at the same time enlightening me.

    Congrats! Victory is yours.

    Please feel empowered with my support to spend time writing to the very invested board and make change happen! As I said earlier, it’s an epically foolish idea, but I see your qualifications are strong.

    Enjoy Cyberpunk as you wait for what is sure to be a quick and productive response to your emailed grievances.

    CDPR is going under faster then DDO ever has.
    Check news what happened with the account wide data leak of personal information of employees and how the source code got sold on the dark web same as bank details of employees.

    Cyberpunk is a total complete mess of a game, even worse then ddo and the developers there have so many barriers that they did not manage to pass trough (language, bad development, disconnect between players and the devs, lies about performance on consoles etc etc), in ddo barriers are at least timed same as this nerf, people will rage now, but come 2 months everyone will jump onto the next thing, whatever it is, swf, bow builds, druid casters, idk.
    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    There is no shortage of content in this game for the weakest 5% of players.

    For most content, they have three difficulties designed solely for them, Casual, Normal and Hard.

  7. #47
    Community Member Valerianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoscheerio View Post
    Am I the only one here that sees this as a response to the nerf backlash? Like yeah we're nerfing **** and you just gotta deal with it; but hey we're making it cheaper to respec if that's your decision.

    from a point of view, yes, it's a helpful sale.

    from another, it's an attempt to cash grab.


    i think the second. because...

    the issue is about yet another issue the players are asking over and over and get ignored over and over, not even a word, about respec cost in ddo. any respec, feats, enhancements, reaper points, hearts.

    can we players agree that there's something off with respec cost in ddo? without details, generic, like, just there's something off? i can't speak for you people but i think we all tend to agree on this.

    imho ddo's respec is old, outdated, overpriced, both in plat and ddo points. imho this is another issue that, if addressed, would prevent these kind of problems and outrages, a smoother post-update respec and more in game testing. but they don't listen, don't even say something like nope, it will go on like this forevermore, it would be at least an answer.

    imho in such a scenario, it would have been better no sale at all instead of a blatant pointing out at the overpriced store respec...but if you think about it, ssg put itself in a bad position in such a scenario whatever they do because they keep ignoring long standing issues that present themselves over and over (not this alone) issues that make up the ground on which the game is built. sale or not sale? no matter what they do, there will be rage and accusations. but Vale my dude you'll say, at least a sale is good for players. nope my friend, a sale means they are trying to sell you something, you are spending in something you should not, other games just let you respec.

    i support ssg making money, they must make money, i like them making money but not this way, if they want to overprice respec to make money there's something very wrong. the outcome is that it is imho all on purpose, respec is overpriced on purpose, and back to square one, the sale is helpful but opportunist at its core. a limited time overpriced sale.

    saying that it is a really welcome helping hand unfortunately limited by how the system works is a sad excuse imho.


    or simply, don't do such changes just before a new raid people already paid for, the common sense of avoiding to expose yourself to problems and accusations.


    (edited out "discount", there's no discount, they are on sale for limited time, my bad, thx for pointing that out. the meaning of the post does not change anyway)
    Last edited by Valerianus; 02-12-2021 at 10:09 AM.

  8. #48
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    SSG is the super shady used car dealership of game developers.
    I feel like you haven't been around enough game developers? There's some real sketch out there.

    They're definitely no paragons of virtue, but they're pretty far from super shady used car dealership lol.

    FWIW I'll probably pick up a 20 for future use, but I'm definitely not going to use it for my current Alchemist lol. I'll be on another life before the nerf hits, as I want to be raid-ready for my guild
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  9. #49
    Community Member Gniewomir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kebtid View Post
    CDPR is going under faster then DDO ever has.
    Check news what happened with the account wide data leak of personal information of employees and how the source code got sold on the dark web same as bank details of employees.

    Cyberpunk is a total complete mess of a game, even worse then ddo and the developers there have so many barriers that they did not manage to pass trough (language, bad development, disconnect between players and the devs, lies about performance on consoles etc etc), in ddo barriers are at least timed same as this nerf, people will rage now, but come 2 months everyone will jump onto the next thing, whatever it is, swf, bow builds, druid casters, idk.
    Huh? As far as i know data leak was just fake news and it was confirmed fake by cdpr. Source code got hacked and it's not something any company can avoid. If there'll be hacker skilled enough he can hack almost everything, it does not mean company didnt did their best to protect their data. The only difference here is that noone finds ddo worth hacking and it's kinda sad... But trust me, it's not like ddo is protected by some mystical force, it's just not attractive prey for hackers skilled enough to hack something more than primary school grades register. Whats more: it was cdpr who first informed public that they've got hacked. Do you think it's something ssg would ever admit?

    If we speak about cyberpunk itself - can't said i played it, im not really fan of games based on future - but from what i heard the game is huge mess on older consoles and majority of players it's just exaggerating cause of this, it's glitchy, yes, but not so bad on ports like pc and still very enjoyable. The fact that ddo players are so commited to the universe that they've got nothing against spitting in their faces over and over again is entirely different, irrelevant matter. It's not like ssg won players loyality with years of so player friendly pratices that players from other games never even heard about such hospitality. You can't blame/praise company for attracting haters/fanboys/casuals/uber games and all different types of players. Again: the only real difference here is that cdpr, unlike ssg, offered full refund, even from their own wallet if shops will cause problems, and they went public with all their plans, patches, fixes and everything they're going to do to fix their game, something ssg never did in 15+ years of their existance.


    Edit: also i suggest checking out https://haveibeenpwned.com/ site, cause for example my personal data like email was already leaked/hacked by breach in ddo two times, for example in 2013.


    Dungeons & Dragons Online: In April 2013, the interactive video game Dungeons & Dragons Online suffered a data breach that exposed almost 1.6M players' accounts. The data was being actively traded on underground forums and included email addresses, birth dates and password hashes.

    Compromised data: Dates of birth, Email addresses, IP addresses, Passwords, Usernames, Website activity

    Have you ever heard about any warnings from ssg that their players data was leaked? I do not remember anything.
    Last edited by Gniewomir; 02-12-2021 at 08:31 AM.

  10. #50
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    to put a fine point on it:

    The +20 Hearts are merely available...
    They aren't discounted, currently, so not on sale.
    I'm starting to get jaded about this whole process- OP release, backend nerf- it's the proverbial mule and the carrot and I end up feeling like an ***.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gniewomir View Post
    Huh? As far as i know data leak was just fake news and it was confirmed fake by cdpr. Source code got hacked and it's not something any company can avoid. If there'll be hacker skilled enough he can hack almost everything, it does not mean company didnt did their best to protect their data. The only difference here is that noone finds ddo worth hacking and it's kinda sad... But trust me, it's not like ddo is protected by some mystical force, it's just not attractive prey for hackers skilled enough to hack something more than primary school grades register. Whats more: it was cdpr who first informed public that they've got hacked. Do you think it's something ssg would ever admit?

    If we speak about cyberpunk itself - can't said i played it, im not really fan of games based on future - but from what i heard the game is huge mess on older consoles and majority of players it's just exaggerating cause of this, it's glitchy, yes, but not so bad on ports like pc and still very enjoyable. The fact that ddo players are so commited to the universe that they've got nothing against spitting in their faces over and over again is entirely different, irrelevant matter. It's not like ssg won players loyality with years of so player friendly pratices that players from other games never even heard about such hospitality. You can't blame/praise company for attracting haters/fanboys/casuals/uber games and all different types of players. Again: the only real difference here is that cdpr, unlike ssg, offered full refund, even from their own wallet if shops will cause problems, and they went public with all their plans, patches, fixes and everything they're going to do to fix their game, something ssg never did in 15+ years of their existance.


    Edit: also i suggest checking out https://haveibeenpwned.com/ site, cause for example my personal data like email was already leaked/hacked by breach in ddo two times, for example in 2013.


    Dungeons & Dragons Online: In April 2013, the interactive video game Dungeons & Dragons Online suffered a data breach that exposed almost 1.6M players' accounts. The data was being actively traded on underground forums and included email addresses, birth dates and password hashes.

    Compromised data: Dates of birth, Email addresses, IP addresses, Passwords, Usernames, Website activity

    Have you ever heard about any warnings from ssg that their players data was leaked? I do not remember anything.

    The personal data safety agreement was not a existing concern for most internet users til it started getting bloated in europe and is now part of official data privacy rules, given how States just recently started to pick up that personal data should stay personal it was evident that the breach should not be mentioned to players since it was never required from them to do so.

    I know the logic is not good in that, but that is how it goes with laws, if there are none, do whatever you can while you can.
    Personalized adds on ytube and fbook got all their wealth for their companies that way.

    Cdpr actually had a major leak, this week and especially today on polish twitter the employees are massively concerned about their privacy as they have massive data breaches and some of their bank accounts were attacked, so they are changing their ids, personal car plate licence numbers, bank accounts freeze ups, its massive and polish twitter is exploding right now with reports from employees.
    The stock price fell down, the game is barely playable, its a mockery since it was 7 years in production with false advertisement.

    DDo is a functional game, given its age, but what devs are trying is their vision of balance changes.
    The problem with such changes is that not all agree with them.
    Example i think all those nerfs were required since we were flying through r10 quests with ease, i would just tone down swf since its to strong with this proposal and possibly add some more power to warlock so that we do not have outliners like we always do that out perform (also possibly nerf throwers slightly).
    But people would not agree with my opinion even if it is purely logical and something where i just want the best for the game.
    Last edited by Kebtid; 02-12-2021 at 09:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    There is no shortage of content in this game for the weakest 5% of players.

    For most content, they have three difficulties designed solely for them, Casual, Normal and Hard.

  12. #52
    Community Member AbyssalMage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    I would suggest not using these contacts as they can't really help with game issues and it might end up taking developer time away from the game to deal with management bs.
    You mean it will take away from time spent to nerf the next thing a minority of forumites want nerfed so they can feel better about their pathetic existence. I am all for that.
    You mean it will take away time from developers openly lying to us on the forums. I am all for that (I personally rather them be honest and say, "We are nerfing this because we need sales at this point." Not lie to my face after doing the very same thing two times already now). Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me trice saying. It's agitating that there are a lot of fools.
    You mean it will take away developer resources to fix a problem they have personally caused. I am all for it.

    Yeah, I can see where you are coming from. We, as a community would love new content and problems like lag solved. Here's the thing though, the new content leads to the massive nerfs so they can generate sells for their new shiny. The lag isn't getting solved because they have to work on the next new shiny. And because they didn't solve the problems from Update X, and the previous 7 releases prior to it, they have now compounded the problems when they release Update X+1, therefor compounding the lag and other bugs we experience. So....

    Taking the developers away from the game so they have to deal with "Upper" Management who have an inbox full of irate e-mails at this point may be the solution. Because the previous solutions sure the H-E-Double Hockey Stick haven't worked. More importantly I want the game to succeed. Raising the floor is a lot more rewarding than crashing the roof down, IMO.
    Quote Originally Posted by hp1055cm View Post
    They have been tweaking the game since I started and often I disagree with them. They focus on wrong stuff, over or under compensate and abandon too much stuff. Every once in awhile they get something right, if only temporarily.

  13. #53
    Community Member Gniewomir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kebtid View Post
    The personal data safety agreement was not a existing concern for most internet users til it started getting bloated in europe and is now part of official data privacy rules, given how States just recently started to pick up that personal data should stay personal it was evident that the breach should not be mentioned to players since it was never required from them to do so.

    I know the logic is not good in that, but that is how it goes with laws, if there are none, do whatever you can while you can.
    Personalized adds on ytube and fbook got all their wealth for their companies that way.
    Data stolen from cdpr was employees data. They were not forced by any law to inform public about it. None players/users data was stolen. And, no matter the law, if your personal data is compromised, i think you would like to know about it, even if law is/was not forcing company to reveal it. And there's difference between signing terms of use and allowing companies to share data for (for example) marketing purposes, and not informing your own players that their data leaked and whole internet might be trying right now to access their bank accounts. Cdpr let everyone know about the problem that affected only few employees. DDO never let know anyone about the fact that informations about milions of their players was stolen and not only once.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kebtid View Post

    Cdpr actually had a major leak, this week and especially today on polish twitter the employees are massively concerned about their privacy as they have massive data breaches and some of their bank accounts were attacked, so they are changing their ids, personal car plate licence numbers, bank accounts freeze ups, its massive and polish twitter is exploding right now with reports from employees.
    The stock price fell down, the game is barely playable, its a mockery since it was 7 years in production with false advertisement.
    I'm polish and im twitter user and i heard nothing about massive concerns. There's a difference between news media reporting that "whole world is panicking" and actual scale of the problem, cause for news media even one employee will be enough to report worldwide panic. Yes, there're some worried employees, yes some of them are (according to news) changing IDs, but so early noone is able to provide trustworthy data about the scale of it. I heard about literally one attempt to take loan, denied by bank cause of false data and it was described as "someone said it happened" so i'm far from assuming so many bank accounts were attacked. And even if this one, single incident happened - there's no way to confirm it was connected with leak, not just a coincidence. In fact if it would be connected with the leak, then probably more than one person would suffer from such attempt, cause if someone have data of few hundreds of people and using single person data won't work, he probably would just try with different one rather than abandon the idea and give up on easy money.

    Stock price fluctuation is perfectly normal and does not really represent company value. Just read about recent reddit vs wall street fights - how easly it's to manipulate with stock price. For a short time - it's meaningless for average user and meaningfull only to those who wish to buy/sell shares to earn easy money. What matters is what will happen after stock panic/hype will calm down and how company will prosper after it.

    And like i said: as far as i know game is perfectly playable on platforms other than older consoles and everyone not satisfied with the product was allowed to return it and cdpr offered full costs refund. Right now it's just trendy to attack cyberpunk despite the actual value of the game/it's performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kebtid View Post
    DDo is a functional game, given its age, but what devs are trying is their vision of balance changes.
    The problem with such changes is that not all agree with them.
    Example i think all those nerfs were required since we were flying through r10 quests with ease, i would just tone down swf since its to strong with this proposal and possibly add some more power to warlock so that we do not have outliners like we always do that out perform (also possibly nerf throwers slightly).
    But people would not agree with my opinion even if it is purely logical and something where i just want the best for the game.

    Now you made me laugh. Every single expansion, every single update, every single major patch in ddo is bugged. Hotfix day after is almost certain. Sometimes few hotfixes in row and it still does not mean they care to fix all problems, just take a look at bugged for year chat. There were months when ddo was unplayable cause of lags (for example literally for two months after moving datacenter few years ago). I really do not understand how you can attack cdpr for doing the best they can to solve disaster and at the same time do not see that ddo is similar disaster but ssg dont give a **** about it.

    Ps: i wholeheartedly agree with nerfs, just wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view that cdpr is doing much worse than ddo when facing the problems.
    Last edited by Gniewomir; 02-12-2021 at 10:44 AM.

  14. #54
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    The timing is purely coincidental; this was put on sale as a light thematic link to Valentine's Day and because players had been asking to have it return.
    Last edited by Cordovan; 02-12-2021 at 10:43 AM.
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  15. #55
    Community Member Vish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The timing is purely coincidental; this was put on sale as a light thematic link to Valentine's Day and because players had been asking to have it return.
    Ahh synchronicity
    There are no coincidences

    Maybe a bit of subconscious reflex
    There was planning involved, ya?

    Anyways, I appreciate it as the one of the greater troll responses
    To a raging forum

    We love you too
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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gniewomir View Post

    Ps: i wholeheartedly agree with nerfs, just wholeheartedly disagree with your point of view that cdpr is doing much worse than ddo when facing the problems.
    Its simple, because i expect bugs in ddo and they do not promise a update and expansion without bugs heh.
    With project red, we knew what was gonna happen but with 3 delays they tried to lie their way out that it will be brilliantly polished at release.

    Its a entirely different approach.

    When we get a bug in ddo, or when we had the major server freeze ups, i did not log til it was fixed, but when i pay a preordered game that was announced 7 years ago with amazing footage and get my first npc broken in dialogue so that i cant progress the main quest...
    its different, one thing i say bollocks, the 2nd i ask myself, ok what now.
    Quote Originally Posted by sirgog View Post
    There is no shortage of content in this game for the weakest 5% of players.

    For most content, they have three difficulties designed solely for them, Casual, Normal and Hard.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Really?
    Why should I care ?

    I'm not playing for minmaxing. Should I bother, then ?

    Oh, no, you won't answer me. You'd rather put me on your ignore list because I don't fulfill your estimated/expected role of a DDO player.
    "You are a Tiefling. And a Cleric, with the Domain of the Sun. Doesn't that contradict each other ?" "No, all my friends are playing evil. I found that so boring that I decided to be on the good side. And, besides, Sun and Fire, where is the difference, really ?"

  18. #58
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vish View Post
    Ahh synchronicity
    There are no coincidences

    Maybe a bit of subconscious reflex
    There was planning involved, ya?
    Oh sure it's a mere coincidence. They did the same when the nerf to the inquisitive, but then it was also a coincidence. They are also concerned that belts are permanently blocking a slot, but they keep adding new stackable bonuses to the game. Of course, they would never think of selling something OP and then nerf it to uselessness; They have never done such a thing, never in their history. Of course, of course. The players are so badly thought out. How can they think ill of a company with such holy purposes?
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  19. #59
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    Oh sure it's a mere coincidence. They did the same when the nerf to the inquisitive, but then it was also a coincidence. They are also concerned that belts are permanently blocking a slot, but they keep adding new stackable bonuses to the game. Of course, they would never think of selling something OP and then nerf it to uselessness; They have never done such a thing, never in their history. Of course, of course. The players are so badly thought out. How can they think ill of a company with such holy purposes?
    Why should I play something OP at all ? Really, why should I ?
    "You are a Tiefling. And a Cleric, with the Domain of the Sun. Doesn't that contradict each other ?" "No, all my friends are playing evil. I found that so boring that I decided to be on the good side. And, besides, Sun and Fire, where is the difference, really ?"

  20. #60
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    The timing is purely coincidental; this was put on sale as a light thematic link to Valentine's Day and because players had been asking to have it return.
    oh i thought the valentine's gift was the excessive nerfs you have planned. You see, I'm a very bad thinking girl.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

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