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  1. #1
    Associate Producer Cocomajobo's Avatar
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    Default U48.4 Preview 1: Balance Changes: Spells

    Disclaimer
    Everything seen on the preview server, Lamannia, is not final and is subject to change or removal before live release.

    This is the BALANCE CHANGES: SPELLS portion of the release notes.

    Preface
    Nukers are fairly strong right now overall, but we've identified two particular outliers: Alchemists and Fire Sorcerers. There are several factors involved in why they're ahead of others, but one of the largest factors in both are their top-end spells. Multivial and Meteor Swarm are significantly ahead of their fellow top-end-nuker spells, largely due to good damage dice, below-average cooldowns, and significant boosts to caster levels. As a result, we've brought those spells down to be much closer to Acid Well, Iceberg, and Thunderstroke - and met in the middle on cooldowns, buffing those three spells in the process. While this won't solve all disparities between nukers and other kinds of characters, we believe this brings them a little closer together, makes other kinds of wizards and sorcerers a little more viable, and makes partying with these nukers less one-sided.

    On the other side of the spectrum, a lot of offensive spellcasters that don't have access to the Wizard and Sorcerer spell list needed a boost. This patch targets offensive spells across a wide variety of builds and aims to bring up the floor of the spellcaster spectrum considerably. We have also fixed key bugs with Druid to allow its premier CC ability, Earthquake, to correctly scale its Duration in Reaper Mode. We have also made a special effort to target underused spellbooks, such as Artificer, by giving them access to key offensive spells to round out their repertoire. Finally, we have additional plans in certain enhancement trees in a later post that address some remaining concerns with Spellsinger and Arcanotechnician specifically. We expect these changes to significantly boost the viability of Divine, Druid, Bardic, and Artificer offensive spellcasters across all levels of play.

    Alchemist, Sorcerer, and Wizard Spells
    • Iceberg's cooldown has been reduced to 6 seconds for Sorcerers, 9 seconds for Wizards.
    • Thunderstroke's cooldown has been reduced to 6 seconds for Sorcerers, 9 seconds for Wizards.
    • Acid Well's cooldown has been reduced to 6 seconds for Sorcerers, 9 seconds for Wizards.
    • Meteor Swarm's cooldown has been raised to 6 seconds for Sorcerers, 9 seconds for Wizards.
    • Multivial's cooldown has been raised to 9 seconds.
    • Multivial's damage dice has changed to 1d4+3 (Element) per caster level per projectile.
    • Master of Spellvials no longer applies to Multivial.
    • Multivial spells now cost 40 SP for both the core spell and the Bombardier SLA versions.
    • Fixed Multivial's tooltip to show the correct Max Caster Level (20).
    • Meteor Swarm's Max Caster Level has been reduced from 30 to 20 to match Iceberg, Thunderstroke, Acid Well, and Multivial.


    Artificer Spells
    • The spell Static Shock has had its damage dice changed to 1d6 per caster level.
    • The spell Lightning Sphere has had its damage dice changed to 1d6 per caster level.
    • The spell Elemental prod has has been reworked:
    • Touch Range. Target enemy takes 1d6 per caster level in two of three elements (Fire, Force, or Electric) chosen randomly each time. Elementals are also Dazed.
    • The spell Blast Rod has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Lightning Motes has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+2 per caster level.
    • The spell Prismatic Strike has been reworked:
    • Ray spell. Enemy takes 1d6 per caster level in two of three elements (Fire, Force, or Electric) chosen randomly each time. The enemy is also subject to 2 of 3 CC effects (from the original Prismatic Strike) chosen randomly each time.
    • The spell Tactical Detonation has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level for both Fire and Force damage.


    Bard Spells
    • The spell Sonic Blast has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level.
    • The spell Soundburst has had tis damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level, and now has a Max Caster Level of 15.
    • The spell Shout has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Greater Shout has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Horn of Thunder has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 Sonic and Electric per caster level.


    Cleric/Favored Soul Spells
    • The spell Nimbus of Light has had its damage dice changed to 1d6 per caster level, and now has a Max Caster Level of 15.
    • The spell Inflict Light Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+2 per caster level.
    • The spell Chill Touch has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+2 per caster level.
    • The spell Deific Vengeance has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+4 per caster level.
    • The spell Inflict Moderate Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+4 per caster level.
    • The spell Searing Light has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    • The spell Inflict Serious Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    • The spell Sun Bolt has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spells Chaos Hammer/Holy Smite/Order's Wrath/Unholy Blight have had their damage dice changed to 1d6+8 per caster level.
    • The spell Inflict Critical Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+10 per caster level.
    • The spell Flame Strike has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+5 per caster level.
    • The spell Slay Living has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+10 per caster level.
    • The spell Cometfall has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Destruction has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+10 per caster level and now has a Max Caster Level of 20.
    • The spell Fire Storm has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+8 per caster level.


    Druid Spells
    • The spell Produce Flame has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level.
    • The spell Splinterbolt has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+4 per caster level.
    • The spell Salt Ray has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    • The spell Call Lightning has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    • The spell Fire Seeds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6 per caster level (per PROJECTILE).
    • The spell Word of Balance has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+12 per caster level.
    • The spell Sunbeam has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+7 per caster level (no max caster level, so it's lower than other spells of this type/level).
    • The spell Sunburst has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+4 damage per caster level.
    • The spell Ice Flowers has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+8 Piercing and 1d6+8 Cold damage per caster level.


    Additional Spell-Related Changes/Clarifications
    • The Inflict Wounds, Mass spells will now use the new versions of their dice as per above.
    • Additionally, the Inflict Wounds spells will only use this new dice against enemies. This will not adjust potential self-healing for Undead players.
    • The Druid spells Call Lightning Storm and Storm of Vengeance will now use the new Call Lightning damage dice.
    • Artificer now has access to the level 1 Sor/Wiz spells Fire Bolt and Shocking Bolt.
    • Artificer now has access to Chain Lightning at spell level level 6.
    • Admixture spells are now properly restricted with Epic Defensive Fighting.
    • All lingering spells (such as Web, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, and Evards) now correctly calculate their duration in Reaper and obey the 6 second floor. This means that spells such as Earthquake will now function even in Reaper 10, where previously they ended almost as soon as they were cast.
    Tell me about any and all bugs you encounter by clicking here!


    NOTE: Submitting a bug in this manner is not a quick fix for past occurrences; it is instead a means of bringing issues to our attention to prevent future occurrences for both you and others. Providing detailed information, especially specifics about your account and character as well as what steps you took leading up to the issue, are critical to us being able to pinpoint the cause of any problems you have encountered.

  2. #2
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    With it's cooldown and max caster level being adjusted can we get a bugfix to meteor swarm losing caster levels (because it's tagged as a earth spell) from the Fire savant capstone? This matters less with it's max caster level being reduced but people have been asking for this for years.

  3. #3
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    While you're changing firestorm, can you normalize it to a regular AE? Its targeting and so forth are exceedingly wonky.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Finally, we have additional plans in certain enhancement trees in a later post that address some remaining concerns with Spellsinger and Arcanotechnician specifically.
    Apart from what is listed here? And are they expected to be in this patch/this iteration of Lammania or in a future pass/patch?

    Edit: Ignore this. Just got a pass at the enhancement post. XD

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Bard Spells
    • The spell Sonic Blast has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level.
    • The spell Soundburst has had tis damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level, and now has a Max Caster Level of 15.
    • The spell Shout has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Greater Shout has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Horn of Thunder has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 Sonic and Electric per caster level.

    Someone pinch me cause I must be dreaming. My banjo boy getting some much needed lovin'.
    I'm a Bard... I don't just take down enemies... I do it with style!... oh and lots of Music Buffs.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ValariusK View Post
    While you're changing firestorm, can you normalize it to a regular AE? Its targeting and so forth are exceedingly wonky.
    Yeah Firestorm needs more than a numeric rework. The targeting needs a pass too.
    I'm a Bard... I don't just take down enemies... I do it with style!... oh and lots of Music Buffs.

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    Are these changes meant to make people stop playing Alchemists and Sorcerers?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by aGarde View Post
    Are these changes meant to make people stop playing Alchemists and Sorcerers?
    The goal is to bring them in line closer to other nuke casters, so that they aren't hands down the best-in-slot for a party for that role. With the Borovian Belt nerfs on top of these nerfs to Fire Sav and Alch, they will definitely be dethroned from being just that.

    Alchemist's definitely needed some nerfing. Anything that can safely solo high reapers that efficiently needs some down tuning. Looking forward to getting to test out the feel. As someone who has played multiple lives to 30 on Light Clerics/Favored Souls and Shout Bards, I don't expect them to feel as terrible as some are anticipating. Compared to where they are on live, yeah sure it's going to sting, but all nerfs do. Can't go from OP to average without some pain.
    I'm a Bard... I don't just take down enemies... I do it with style!... oh and lots of Music Buffs.

  8. #8
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aGarde View Post
    Are these changes meant to make people stop playing Alchemists and Sorcerers?
    They also killed ravenloft belts, but that's mentioned in another thread. 200 less spell power at cap and 77 less during heroic is going to hurt worse than the other nerfs listed here

  9. #9
    Community Member Synthala's Avatar
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    Initially it looks good! Nice to see all the casters get a little bit of love. I still feel like Bard should maybe get a little bit more to their Shout and Greater Shout dice. Also, the cooldown for Shout (4secs) is larger that the cooldown for Greater Shout (3secs) which seems a little bit backwards to me.

    Another thing that I wanted to mention was the dice of Blast Rod. Originally it was 1d4+4 per caster level, but is being changed to 1d6+3 per caster level. Assuming that the cap is still 10, this new dice means that the average damage will be the same. (1d4+4 ~ 2x10+40=60, 1d6+3 ~ 3x10+30=60) The only difference is a chance for slightly higher damage or slightly lower damage. I do understand that it now shares a more standard dice however (i.e. fireball and acid blast).

    Anyways, this pass took me by surprise! Color me impressed.
    Last edited by Synthala; 02-09-2021 at 02:40 PM.

  10. #10
    Community Member Lonnbeimnech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xezom View Post
    The goal is to bring them in line closer to other nuke casters, so that they aren't hands down the best-in-slot for a party for that role. With the Borovian Belt nerfs on top of these nerfs to Fire Sav and Alch, they will definitely be dethroned from being just that.

    Alchemist's definitely needed some nerfing. Anything that can safely solo high reapers that efficiently needs some down tuning. Looking forward to getting to test out the feel. As someone who has played multiple lives to 30 on Light Clerics/Favored Souls and Shout Bards, I don't expect them to feel as terrible as some are anticipating. Compared to where they are on live, yeah sure it's going to sting, but all nerfs do. Can't go from OP to average without some pain.
    if they are trying to equalize the nuking casters, can we expect sorcs to get the heal spell soon?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    We have also fixed key bugs with Druid to allow its premier CC ability, Earthquake, to correctly scale its Duration in Reaper Mode.
    ...

    • All lingering spells (such as Web, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, and Evards) now correctly calculate their duration in Reaper and obey the 6 second floor. This means that spells such as Earthquake will now function even in Reaper 10, where previously they ended almost as soon as they were cast.
    Hallelujah! This has been badly, badly needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Bard Spells
    • The spell Sonic Blast has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level.
    • The spell Soundburst has had tis damage dice changed to 1d6+1 per caster level, and now has a Max Caster Level of 15.
    • The spell Shout has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    • The spell Greater Shout has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+3 per caster level.
    Are those changes only for Bards? Or for the spells themselves, regardless of source? I'm hoping the latter. Please don't break consistency of these spells across classes. If these new values are fine for Bards, they should be fine for Wizards or Clerics (or anyone running in EA, etc.) too. It's the same spell either way!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    • The spell Inflict Light Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+2 per caster level.
    • The spell Inflict Moderate Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+4 per caster level.
    • The spell Inflict Serious Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    • The spell Inflict Critical Wounds has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+10 per caster level.
    • ...


    • The Inflict Wounds, Mass spells will now use the new versions of their dice as per above.
    I was going demand Cures be given the same treatment, or complain about you giving PMs an even bigger healing advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    • Additionally, the Inflict Wounds spells will only use this new dice against enemies. This will not adjust potential self-healing for Undead players.
    OK, if you can do that, then you can still upgrade Cures to use similar new dice, only against enemies, the same way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    • The spell Salt Ray has had its damage dice changed to 1d6+6 per caster level.
    I don't care about it's damage. Did you fix it's status effect? It's a Force spell, and should fully affect Incorporeal creatures. Earthquake and most other Druid CC doesn't, and shouldn't work on flying incorporeal Reapers, but Salt Ray should. Don't worry, Druids having a single-target short-duration CC that actually works on Reapers is not going to invalidate Mass Hold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post

    • Admixture spells are now properly restricted with Epic Defensive Fighting.
    Good.

    While you're at it, how about having the Heal Admixture take (or not take) the same metamagics as the Heal & Mass Heal spells? If Alchs can Empower/Maximize/Intensify their Heal, Clr/Dru/FvS should be able to, too. Or if they shouldn't be able to, neither should Alch.
    Last edited by SirValentine; 02-09-2021 at 02:41 PM.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Are those changes only for Bards? Or for the spells themselves, regardless of source? I'm hoping the latter. Please don't break consistency of these spells across classes. If these new values are fine for Bards, they should be fine for Wizards or Clerics (or anyone running in EA, etc.) too. It's the same spell either way!
    Change should apply regardless of source.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  13. #13

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    I've gained more than 25 million reaper XP as an alchemist. Look through my post history, and you'll find me advocating for adjustments including the removal of enhanced spell power. However, the alchemist changes bring a butcher's knife instead of a scalpel to open heart surgery. Cumulatively you've gone too far with reduced MCL, decreased damage on top of diminished spellpower and increased cooldown.

    There is little reason to play an alchemist bombardier anymore, which is super disappointing. By far, bombardier has been the most interesting and fun I've ever played in the game. And you've ruined it for high skull reapers.

    It's also a poke in the eye that alchemist bugs that have persisted since release have not been fixed. But I don't really care anymore, because Alchemist is dead to me.
    DPS solves all problems. R10 or bust. Khyber: Ying-1, Kobeyashi

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    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post

    There is little reason to play an alchemist bombardier anymore, which is super disappointing. By far, bombardier has been the most interesting and fun I've ever played in the game. And you've ruined it for high skull reapers.

    It's also a poke in the eye that alchemist bugs that have persisted since release have not been fixed. But I don't really care anymore, because Alchemist is dead to me.
    Ah, good. No reason for me to ever buy it, then.

    I learned my lesson this time.

    Don't buy a class until after it's been nerfed to see if it's still fun/viable.
    Last edited by Arkat; 02-09-2021 at 02:50 PM.
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    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carpone View Post
    I've gained more than 25 million reaper XP as an alchemist. Look through my post history, and you'll find me advocating for adjustments including the removal of enhanced spell power. However, the alchemist changes bring a butcher's knife instead of a scalpel to open heart surgery. Cumulatively you've gone too far with reduced MCL, decreased damage on top of diminished spellpower and increased cooldown.

    There is little reason to play an alchemist bombardier anymore, which is super disappointing. By far, bombardier has been the most interesting and fun I've ever played in the game. And you've ruined it for high skull reapers.

    It's also a poke in the eye that alchemist bugs that have persisted since release have not been fixed. But I don't really care anymore, because Alchemist is dead to me.
    I don't think the proposed changes to multivial or meteor swarm are wrong. I think the issue is the combined other changes around it: Losing enhanced spell power, all other casters getting buffs, other (useless) alchemist spells untouched...

    Elemental combination and Gold breath could use a buff.
    Firewall/Icestorm could use a buff.
    Thelanis

  16. #16
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    Can you please make Curative Admixture: Heal level 6 Alchemist spell affected by the quicken metamagic. It would be an incredible quality of life improvement for alchemist. If anyone plays it after this.

    And my comments for alch changes are as follows.

    The dice change to multivial doesnt do anything. Either way the average damage remains 5.5 damage per caster level but less variation in spell damage. Whats the point?

    Multivial removal from master of spells vials and a nine second cooldown effectively kills alchemist as a nuker. The spell vial change to CL alone it at least a 25% reduction in damage. With the additional 3 second cooldown the overall dps loss of multivial is 50%. Overall alchemist dps is being gutted by greater than 75%. This is worse then your inquistive nerf. I dont think there is suffcient evidence that alch was so over perfoming that it needed 75% less dps.

    Guess its back to DC casting being the only viable spell casting in r10s.

    The only reason to take master of spell vials was for multivial. Now its a useless feat that affects a whopping 2 spells that are only every cast to set reaction spikes.

    SO:
    Add quicken to metamigc to heal admixture.
    LOWER spellvial caster level increase from feat to + 5 for multvial from + 10 and keep +10 for other spells. Which keeps it worthwhile to take.
    Cooldown to 9 seconds is fine.
    Last edited by Avocado; 02-09-2021 at 03:07 PM.

  17. #17
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    What about Harm? Is it going to get enhanced damage vs. mobs too? ICW is now going to do way more damage than Harm as an offensive spell.

    Also, can Cure Wounds spells get a similar update to when they're used offensively against Undead? Or, alternatively, just remove that function altogether since all it does now is cause targeting issues when trying to self-heal?

    Are the AT tree changes coming in a later post this patch cycle? Or a future patch this year?

    Adding CL is a good step for Caster Artis. Its probably too big of an ask, but Thunderstroke would really help round out their casting rotation in Epic. I'm guessing the answer on that is "no", but then alternatively, Eladar's would be another good tool to have in their electric caster box since they currently dont have a DOT.

  18. #18
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    Default Epic Spells

    Does anyone use Ruin and Greater Ruin? Can those spells get a buff? They cost so much for the damage they do, granted no save but, I don't know if that's enough to compete. Still rather cast meteor a few times.

  19. #19
    Community Member rabidfox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avocado View Post
    Can you please make Curative Admixture: Heal level 6 Alchemist spell affected by the quicken metamagic. It would be an incredible quality of life improvement for alchemist. If anyone plays it after this.
    It's about on par with what I'd expect for an AoE heal spell speedwise (unless they want boost mass heals cast time- which I'd be down for hehehe). What alch is really lacking a faster casting single target heal spell that actually lands every time so a tank can be kept up without the RNG of a vial missing; like "healing injection dart" or whatever silly name they want to give it.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Xezom View Post
    The goal is to bring them in line closer to other nuke casters, so that they aren't hands down the best-in-slot for a party for that role. With the Borovian Belt nerfs on top of these nerfs to Fire Sav and Alch, they will definitely be dethroned from being just that.
    Optimal nuker gear doesn't use RL belts. The classes getting hit the worst with the RL belt change are healers, and Pale Masters.

    Alchemist's definitely needed some nerfing. Anything that can safely solo high reapers that efficiently needs some down tuning. Looking forward to getting to test out the feel.
    Soloing R10 has always been more about player competence than the class. You can still solo R10s as an alch or sorcerer, but you'll be using way more mana pots to do it. And the folks that solo R10s do it for a highlight reel for achievement threads. It's not something they do on a reoccurring basis.
    DPS solves all problems. R10 or bust. Khyber: Ying-1, Kobeyashi

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