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  1. #1
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
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    Default Ascendent Bond: Protector has an incorrect bonus % to hit points

    This needs to be changed to 5% Quality bonus to hp from 5% Sacred bonus since several tank builds are exploiting this. Also it would open up more interesting options other than investing 12 points in the falconry tree for that bonus

  2. #2
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    Why do you think it's wrong? Why do you think tanks wanting to take +%HP is an exploit?

    It was less than a year ago that the devs went through all the +%HP bonuses, and changed the typing and/or value of many of them, including Aasimar. From Update 45 Release Notes:

    Various percentage hit point bonuses are being adjusted as follows:
    Percentage HP

    • Stalwart and Sacred Defender: remain at 20% Competence.
    • Nature's Protector: remains at 25% Competence.
    • Unyielding Sentinel: remains at 20% Insightful.
    • Aasimar stays typed as Sacred, goes to 5%, down from 10%.
    • Bladeforged gains 5% Quality in a new Tier 4 (2 AP) in their Racial Tree.
    • Paladin 18th core gains 10% Sacred HP (this is also in the above notes for clarity).
    • Enlightened Spirit level 20 capstone stays at 20% Sacred.
    • Warpriest core 4 (level 12) gets 10% Sacred.
    • Occult Slayer tier 5 Bond of Destruction gains 10% Quality.
    • Renegade Mastermaker goes to a 10% Quality bonus, down from its former 20% Racial bonus.
    • Upgraded Zombie in tier 5 Pale Master goes to 10% Profane.
    • Shintao Tier 5 gains 10% Quality in Meditation of War earth stance (up from 3% untyped).
    • Falconry Tier 3 goes to 5% Quality (already 5% just adds a channel).
    • Dwarf goes from 4% stacking to 5% Quality
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  3. #3
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    Why do you think it's wrong? Why do you think tanks wanting to take +%HP is an exploit?

    It was less than a year ago that the devs went through all the +%HP bonuses, and changed the typing and/or value of many of them, including Aasimar. From Update 45 Release Notes:
    It allows certain tank builds to outperform other tank builds in terms of survivability which was one of the stated design goals of that particular update. It should be changed to a Quality bonus so that all races provide a +5% Quality bonus instead of there being an inconsistency where people are more apt to choose Aasimar so that they can dip for the +5% Sacred bonus and then pick up the +5% Quality bonus from the Falconry tree. Is is the only race that allows for this to be done making it an outlier that should be normalized so that it isn't the one race that everyone picks for the "best" tank build.
    Last edited by Alcides; 01-19-2021 at 07:22 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    It allows certain tank builds to outperform other tank builds in terms of survivability which was one of the stated design goals of that particular update. It should be changed to a Quality bonus so that all races provide a +5% Quality bonus instead of there being an inconsistency where people are more apt to choose Aasimar so that they can dip for the +5% Sacred bonus and then pick up the +5% Quality bonus from the Falconry tree. Is is the only race that allows for this to be done making it an outlier that should be normalized so that it isn't the one race that everyone picks for the "best" tank build.
    So the reason, why aasimar are currently tank-META is because their racial %-hp bonus is sacred and can be taken with Falconry %-XP? Nope. Aasimar are at the top of the tank-chain because they have 7 recovering LoH charges.

    Because every cleric, warlock and paladin can get more sacred %-hp out of their trees, all of them rather good trees even, and still get the Falconry bonus. Especially clerics, which synergize well with it, while warlock/paladins can be dwarves and bladeforges instead to grab the quality.

    The aasimar bonus isn't sacred because someone arbitrarily decided "That's balanced", but because it fits their narrative as being touched by holy powers. The reduction from 10% to 5% is the balance. So it was a narrative-based choice and therefore not wrong in any way.

    Aasimar aren't outliers hp-wise, they just provide a bonus that's otherwise gatekept by certain classes, but if you have one of these classes and enhancements, everyone gets a higher bonus out of it.

    The decision to make Aasimar great tanks were made with their Healing Touch, which isn't even based on their 3rd edition counterparts. So there was no license or edition reason to give them that, it was solely a decision of SSG to give them this ability, which is based on the 5th edition. In the DDO-landscape, having a potent self-heal is expected from a tank, so if a race have it with little effort (only 7 RAP), then of course it has an advantage in this regard, and many of the other enhancements are also adding up to what we expect from a tank build (like proficiency with tower shields, healing amp, bonus to saves, PRR/MRR, in several cases positive spellpower).
    If you want to "balance" tank races, you'd had to dismantle half of the Aasimar tree. So my suggestion is to just accept what D&D supported since its first edition: Some races are better fit for certain roles than others. It would make more sense, to argue that the dwarves need more tankiness in their trees, than to try to blend all races together in a pile of boring goo.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alcides View Post
    This needs to be changed to 5% Quality bonus to hp from 5% Sacred bonus since several tank builds are exploiting this. Also it would open up more interesting options other than investing 12 points in the falconry tree for that bonus
    You're a year late to the conversation. It was brought up and ignored when the change was made.

    Also, LOL at "exploit". You don't understand what that word means.
    DPS solves all problems. R10 or bust. Khyber: Ying-1, Kobeyashi

  6. #6
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    If any change is made, it needs to be typed as "racial" due to being...race based.
    Sarlona: Tobril | Syg | Trogbril

  7. #7
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    If anything, nerf Dwarves. My Dwarven Warpriest already has way too much dps, and the fact that Child of the Mountain's 5% bonus stacks with Warpriest Core 5's 10% makes it completely broken

    /s

  8. #8
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobril View Post
    If any change is made, it needs to be typed as "racial" due to being...race based.
    Yes

    +1
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobril View Post
    If any change is made, it needs to be typed as "racial" due to being...race based.
    Also +1

    Cue tantrum from some dude running an Aasimar (+5% Sacred) PM (+10% Profane), splashing Falconry (+5% Quality) in US (+20% Insight) with the full LGS Opposition (+54% Legendary) set. "But now I only have 12k HP instead of 12.5k!"

  10. #10
    Community Member Alcides's Avatar
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    I can see making them all a racial bonus. However, that doesn't really get rid of the mandatory 12 points in the Falconry tree for Conditioning. If anything make them a racial bonus but then provide some additional ways to get a +5% quality bonus that isn't Conditioning because it's pretty much a default choice at this point.

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