Small Problem Change

[Knightrose]

It's really infuriating that so many known issues drag on for months and years, but when the players are having fun with a new event, turns out changes are possible without even a server shutdown.

Yep. If it effects the in-game store they respond immediately. If it effects any other part of the game they ignore it. I really am disgusted with how DDO is treated by this company. They straight up don't give a ****.

[JohnFlory]

Yep. If it effects the in-game store they respond immediately. If it effects any other part of the game they ignore it. I really am disgusted with how DDO is treated by this company. They straight up don't give a ****.

Well, it took them ages to fix the repair kit "exploit". But you're not wrong in general.

The only really idiotic thing is that by fixing the "exploit", they are essentially rewarding the people who exploited it. They can now sell keys/coins for a mark-up and are done with farming whereas others have to work for it. It's still not all bad because getting enough keys is easy enough, but when changing things one always should consider whether the consequences affect the right target. Here we're going exactly the wrong way.

The right way to handle this is to change it after the event is over or at least compensate for the changes. Personally, I would have put in a new item "Shiny Frozen Key". Old keys would drop you in the old slope while the shiny new keys would drop you in a slope that has a higher ratio of gold and silver coins.

[Thrudh]

WTry learning how to consider something on the merits irrespective of the speaker.

Nope. Sorry, that's not how it works. Learn to speak better, or at least politely, or continue to be disappointed.

[Carpone]

Sorry, but the decision to exclude normal diff players from a seasonal event (yes, I know quite a few) is indefensible.

Anyone touting Casual or Normal difficulty can't have it both ways. You enjoy not having any champions in those difficulties outside of the event. But with the event, you demand champions in Casual and Normal. Pick a lane.

If you can't or refuse to do at least Hard difficulty, then you can purchase keys from the AH or from the store when they are added back in. Or buy coins directly from the AH. Or ask a friend -- surely someone self-proclaimed as "socialable" has friends to help you out.

[NemesisAlien]

Well, it took them ages to fix the repair kit "exploit". But you're not wrong in general.

The only really idiotic thing is that by fixing the "exploit", they are essentially rewarding the people who exploited it. They can now sell keys/coins for a mark-up and are done with farming whereas others have to work for it. It's still not all bad because getting enough keys is easy enough, but when changing things one always should consider whether the consequences affect the right target. Here we're going exactly the wrong way.

The right way to handle this is to change it after the event is over or at least compensate for the changes. Personally, I would have put in a new item "Shiny Frozen Key". Old keys would drop you in the old slope while the shiny new keys would drop you in a slope that has a higher ratio of gold and silver coins.

No, what they should do is roll back the exploiters only. But of course too much effort, so simplier version is roll back ddo to before the event, fix the exploit and just carry on from there. For those who completed some quest during that small window, too bad.

[myliftkk_v2]

Anyone touting Casual or Normal difficulty can't have it both ways. You enjoy not having any champions in those difficulties outside of the event. But with the event, you demand champions in Casual and Normal. Pick a lane.

If you can't or refuse to do at least Hard difficulty, then you can purchase keys from the AH or from the store when they are added back in. Or buy coins directly from the AH. Or ask a friend -- surely someone self-proclaimed as "socialable" has friends to help you out.

They didn't demand a champion, but instead criticized use of the champion mechanic for delivery of required participatory elements of the event.

I don't remember the mechanic they used to deliver Risia coins in quests, I think it was mob type (fire) so there's certainly a precursor for not using champions to deliver event tokens. That said, the Risia tokens, coins I think, may have only accumulated to the individual who killed the mob, but I can't say that for sure, it was ages ago. Even if that was the case, champions are easily a more skilled-player limited and skewed delivery mechanism than Risia's was in that way since nearly a huge chunk of the game is solo, and mob type is assured in numerous quests where champion type or even spawn is gated in both a random and skilled manner. It would have been far easier for a normal skilled player to solo any number of dungeons for Risia coins than participate in this event.

The critique stands pretty solidly on the merits once people stop using the superfluous language to self-inflict wounds to their pride and actually consider only the merits.

[Thrudh]

Anyone touting Casual or Normal difficulty can't have it both ways. You enjoy not having any champions in those difficulties outside of the event. But with the event, you demand champions in Casual and Normal. Pick a lane.

If you can't or refuse to do at least Hard difficulty, then you can purchase keys from the AH or from the store when they are added back in. Or buy coins directly from the AH. Or ask a friend -- surely someone self-proclaimed as "socialable" has friends to help you out.

It appears that one can do quests far underlevel as well.

Can one who can only handle normal quests do level 4 quests on elite when they are level 12?

[Thrudh]

Uh, that's absolutely how it works or one hasn't been paying attention to the last 30+ years of customer service theory and the mechanics of win-win negotiating. The reason why it works has to do with rejecting the instinctual habit of self-injuring one's pride (which is as much of a choice as the speaker's words) and then playing the same over-reaction game as the speaker.

The fact that we don't get keys on normal isn't self-injuring me.

95%+ of us don't need normal and casual to be included in this event in order to participate.

If that one poster wants us to get behind his appeal to the DDO devs, he should appeal to our good nature and fair play, not insult us as despicable human beings almost immediately if we disagree at first.

I don't need win-win. I've already won. He needs a different strategy to convince the rest of us or even the devs (who presumably could "win" if more people enjoyed the event). But making this a huge insult fight on the boards, he lessens his chance to convince the devs as well.

His entire method here has been self-defeating.

It doesn't matter what ideas about customer service you have, because this isn't customer service we're talking about.

[Fivetigers33]

I don't know how this thread is even still going. People seem to want to just argue for the sake of arguing. Anyone that wants rewards can use their highest level toon and literally pick any level 4+ quest and run it on elite and you'll get the same drop rates as people running level 30+ R10. If people's real gripe is that playing on higher difficulty yields more rewards, that's the same as anything else in DDO (Experience, Named Loot, Reaper XP). The event though, is 100% accessible to everyone as shown in my Irestone Inlet at level 30 pic below.

[myliftkk_v2]

The fact that we don't get keys on normal isn't self-injuring me.

95%+ of us don't need normal and casual to be included in this event in order to participate.

If that one poster wants us to get behind his appeal to the DDO devs, he should appeal to our good nature and fair play, not insult us as despicable human beings almost immediately if we disagree at first.

I don't need win-win. I've already won. He needs a different strategy to convince the rest of us or even the devs (who presumably could "win" if more people enjoyed the event). But making this a huge insult fight on the boards, he lessens his chance to convince the devs as well.

His entire method here has been self-defeating.

It doesn't matter what ideas about customer service you have, because this isn't customer service we're talking about.

Lol, rewind and reread what he wrote across the whole thread.

Said poster actually laid out pretty comprehensively their position across numerous posts with zero flowery language towards other posters where they were told over and over to change they style of play to either a) rolfstomp low level quests with their higher level toons, or b) upgrade to a higher difficulty at level. Posts we find neither acknowledged or disagreed with by yourself up and until someone clearly felt their pride injured and jumped in at the end long after their prior posts were clearly laid out and after a couple of late arriving superfluous statements just to what... wag a finger at them and backhandedly acknowledge the potential for support? The only thing sillier than their eventual excessive language was the equally silly response (a response which itself had to be edited because it was also over the top, because that didn't just disappear down a memory hole).

The only thing they didn't do was point out Risia actually provided rewards at all levels of play consistent with the playstyle each player chose to use and thus present a more egalitarian solution already having been used. But, I did that, since I didn't spend any time nursing my wounded pride because I chose to take offense at some random adjectives on the internet.

On top of a questionably-timed injection, your claimed logic doesn't hold water irrespective of the adjectives anyone used. Claiming normal players running at level should be somehow less included in the event because they made a choice? Lol, what about the chest these players are looting from champs they didn't kill? If other toons choose to hold my beer while I kill the champs, should they get keys and coins? Are you yourself turning down, or advocating not, looting those chests from champs your toon doesn't notch the kill on? Because it seems to me, potentially up to 5 players are getting free loot if I'm blasting away a champ and so for consistencies sake it would seem appropriate to have you level the same moral opprobrium at those 5 toons, but I don't see that here.

The only group trying to 'have it both' ways appears to be the one insisting rewards accumulate/aggregate/weigh their roflstomp playstyle and insist on getting free stuff when others do the killing because they were there, while at the exact same time insisting other players who can't kill or even see these mobs in certain settings should get nothing if they kill mobs in their normally played settings.

That is some tomb of the tormented logic.

[Cordovan]

Had to spend some time cleaning up the thread. Stop fighting.

[Cranjis-of-Orien]

Anyway, fighting hopefully done, I have noticed that the Snowpeaks champions seem to carry varying traits that match currently-existing champions. As if they are just existing champions with a different name. Like I have seen some with Stone Guard's damage resist, I have seen some with the blurriness of a Pandemonium, and I have had many be able to dodge like a Fey Touched. Anyone else notice that?

[NemesisAlien]

Had to spend some time cleaning up the thread. Stop fighting.

Note the background

[Dendrix]

No, what they should do is roll back the exploiters only. But of course too much effort, so simplier version is roll back ddo to before the event, fix the exploit and just carry on from there. For those who completed some quest during that small window, too bad.

What do you do about anyone who traded with the exploiters?
What do you do about anyone who bought anything (exploited or not) that the exploiter put up in (Shard)Auction?
What about anyone who grouped with the exploiter and was (indirectly) benefiting from the exploiter being more powerful and thus gained more XP?

[NemesisAlien]

What do you do about anyone who traded with the exploiters?
What do you do about anyone who bought anything (exploited or not) that the exploiter put up in (Shard)Auction?
What about anyone who grouped with the exploiter and was (indirectly) benefiting from the exploiter being more powerful and thus gained more XP?

Thats why I say too much effort, all the little details, at that time the event only roll one less then 24hrs, roll back ddo to before the event solves all that.

[SirValentine]

Our definitions of, "exploit", very obviously differ in dramatic fashion. I do not consider killing Water Elementals in A Small Problem to gain Champion chests an exploit. Players have used that spot for years to farm Mimics and Mysterious Remnants. Obviously, the people at Standing Stone Games have now decided to change the behavior of such spots to slow down event item acquisition. That is their right. However, characterizing long standing game behaviors and resulting player interactions as exploitative because the developers suddenly and without warning change their minds is grossly unfair and unnecessarily inflammatory. You are completely wrong to use such language.

Agreed. All this whining about an "exploit" is nonsense. Those water elementals have been part of that quest for many years. Those water elementals spawning isn't a bug people were using to cheat, it was the intended behavior all along if you take the water without getting the blessing first. Devs just don't want us to use it for keys.

I never used the method mentioned in the original post to obtain keys. In fact, I never used it during the Mimic Hunt or to collect Mysterious Remnants, either.

I did a bit for some keys, and I freely admit it. But I've moved to other and better places to farm since then.

what they should do is roll back the exploiters only.

Nemesis, if farming respawns is an exploit (and it's not, but if), then you should be banned for your work here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/501735-Monster-manual-auto-respawn-locations Posting details on exploits is against forum rules.

[NemesisAlien]

Agreed. All this whining about an "exploit" is nonsense. Those water elementals have been part of that quest for many years. Those water elementals spawning isn't a bug people were using to cheat, it was the intended behavior all along if you take the water without getting the blessing first. Devs just don't want us to use it for keys.

Thats what I been saying also, although in a different thread, the water elementals is there for a reason, you get bashed for not following orders.

But fact is devs dont want us to use that to farm keys, so they rage nerf the whole thing, stealth nerf it also without shutting ddo down too, which is the start of all this controversy.

So now we got 2 camps, 1 with keys and smug, 1 without keys and struggling to get them. Guess where the green eye monster is.

Thus my solution is simple, although now is too late for it, at the time they stealth nerf it, which is less then 24hrs since the roll out of the event, at most it 20 hours from it, less I believe, they should just roll back ddo.

Perhaps yes exploiters is the wrong term, since they didnt break any rules, lets call them advantagers then, since they too advantage of an oversight (which is the devs fault I might add, this quest been around for over 10years, the last problem was making it epic, roll out bugs).

They also took advantage of the glam dust you know, seems few people noticed it.

[adamkatt]

This is the most privileged point of view I've seen today. This means you are running Elite/reaper quests in ~7 min and don't take any breaks for 7.5 hours...this is not the experience of the average player.

Then what is? Play 10 min and then lose interest?

I get 1 key on average per elite/reaper lvl quest i do.

[adamkatt]

The problem is that not all players play like you or me. For example, in my guild there is a group of six friends who only play normal. They play every Monday, religiously, grouped together and only in normal. I tried to encourage them to play with me on a higher difficulty, but they prefer to play on normal because it is the difficulty in which they feel comfortable. Should they be excluded from the event just because they are casual? I do not think so. I think the event is poorly designed from this point of view.

And it's not even difficult to modify it to be more inclusive. What I have said, for example, does not discriminate against this type of player and would not encourage normal farm for those people who prefer to play in other difficulties. And obviously there would be other ways to handle this without excluding a fraction of the base player.

Devs: these events should be inclusive. Forever. Forever. Forever. Stop being elitist.

I thought r1 was the new normal...

[adamkatt]

Nope PDK bug still here.



Please no snarky comments my warchanter is embarrassed enough.

Nice Legs.