Small Problem Change

[Carpone]

I ran 8 mid/high legendary reaper quests and got 2 keys. High reaper should be dropping more due to increased chance of champs. Its not.

Elite and reaper are treated the same for champion spawns.

[Carpone]

I played for a long time over the past couple days and came up with...oh, I don't know...3 keys. Perhaps you just got lucky.

Luck has nothing to do with it. It's volume of monsters killed, which you can measure by the number of at-level quest completions just playing the game normally. For example, spending 63 minutes in Soul Survivor is going to be an abysmal key drop rate like redoubt has. Completing 50+ quests in 6-7 min (each) on elite+ is going to net you similar to my drop rate.

[Micki]

Completing 50+ quests in 6-7 min on elite+ is going to net you similar to my drop rate.

I don't think even you are completing 50+ quests in 6-7 min.

[Mercureal]

Luck has nothing to do with it. It's volume of monsters killed, which you can measure by the number of at-level quest completions just playing the game normally. For example, spending 63 minutes in Soul Survivor is going to be an abysmal key drop rate like redoubt has. Completing 50+ quests in 6-7 min on elite+ is going to net you similar to my drop rate.

I'm not sure it's true that it's not about luck. I ran through 6 quests on R1, all in Ravenloft, with one of my characters and got 2 chests, both with keys. Another character completed 4 quests on elite and got 3 chests, all with keys. On a third character, I completed 6 quests on hard, got 6 chests and no keys. Everything was solo and fairly good monster density throughout (probably highest with my first character). Yes, small sample size and maybe the numbers balance out with enough quests. But also maybe not.

Even if you ignore the keys, the number of ice chests seems to vary quite a bit.

[Carpone]

I don't think even you are completing 50+ quests in 6-7 min.

6-7 min each, obviously. I updated the post for clarity.

[Thrudh]

The keys from Water Elementals in A Small Problem.

Have you not been reading this thread?

keys aren't a reward... And keys weren't removed. You can still get them in any quest in the game.

Someone explained it later that the reward that was removed was the Glimmerdust vendor.

[Thrudh]

Turning this off has done a couple things...
1: it has lessened the supply of Keys/coins/augments available to the WHOLE community(non of these things are bound) No time to run the event cuz of real life and hoping to pick up a +2 CHA augment? get ready to pay out the nose now.

Um... I ran like 10 short level 4-5 heroic quests yesterday, got three keys, and already have 20 gold coins from the slide. Just need a few more silver for my first augment.

I'm not seeing this as a huge grind.

[Carpone]

16 quests is not a statistically relevant sample size. And obviously the larger the sample size, the smaller your margin of error (1/SQRT(sample size)).

[Iriale]

16 quests is not a statistically relevant sample size. And obviously the larger the sample size, the smaller your margin of error (1/SQRT(sample size)).

Precisely. It is a seasonal event that should be inclusive for everyone, including casuals. If you need a sample of 1000 quests to see a decent drop rate, the festival is a failure. It is already very debatable as a good implementation that people who play normal do not have the opportunity to get keys.

Luck plays a role. It is a random drop (appearance of champions) added to another random event (that the champion is a snow) added to another random event (whether or not there is a key in the chest). To say that luck does not influence is silly.

Devs need to see how other games handle their events. Maybe that way they would learn something.

[Stergan]

Snowpeaks doesn't require farming keys. You get enough of them naturally just playing the game. 7.5 hours of playtime running 53 quests and I obtained 29 keys.

This is the most privileged point of view I've seen today. This means you are running Elite/reaper quests in ~7 min and don't take any breaks for 7.5 hours...this is not the experience of the average player.

[Bunker]

Are quests the metric we want to base a sample size on, or is it really kills?

[Mercureal]

16 quests is not a statistically relevant sample size. And obviously the larger the sample size, the smaller your margin of error (1/SQRT(sample size)).

True, if trying to do a structured and somewhat rigorous statistical analysis. But all I was trying to do was reflect subjective perception based on time spent, and on that basis I think it shows that there is variation in the outcome.

[Carpone]

This is the most privileged point of view I've seen today. This means you are running Elite/reaper quests in ~7 min and don't take any breaks for 7.5 hours...this is not the experience of the average player.

Who says we aren't taking breaks? That's over two nights, and we break for 15-20 min halfway through. We also break 5-min here and there for various reasons.

You make it sound like running elite quests at runspeed with a group is difficult. 10 years ago, that was the case. Not today. Hardcore is a perfect example where people are running elite/R1 with extremely limited access to gear, no past lives, etc. With the accumulation of gear, past lives, reaper points, etc it's a snorefest. The game is about the people, not the content. If it wasn't for the community, I would have abandoned this game years ago.

[Carpone]

Are quests the metric we want to base a sample size on, or is it really kills?

Kills are more accurate than quests for analytics, but good luck getting people to track at that level.

[Bunker]

Kills are more accurate than quests for analytics, but good luck getting people to track at that level.

7000 kills / 51 chests Over leveled character. No orange names. heroic elite.

[Cranjis-of-Orien]

You make it sound like running elite quests at runspeed with a group is difficult. 10 years ago, that was the case. Not today. Hardcore is a perfect example where people are running elite/R1 with extremely limited access to gear, no past lives, etc. With the accumulation of gear, past lives, reaper points, etc it's a snorefest. The game is about the people, not the content. If it wasn't for the community, I would have abandoned this game years ago.

It is easy...for people that haven't started recently, and noobs. Non VIP's can't even run on elite or reaper without running the lower difficulties first, which makes grinding twice as long for them. Not everyone has all the best gear or lives or RP.

[Carpone]

It is easy...for people that haven't started recently, and noobs. Non VIP's can't even run on elite or reaper without running the lower difficulties first, which makes grinding twice as long for them. Not everyone has all the best gear or lives or RP.

Orien has a huge community of people able to run mid-reaper quests. Elite out-of-the-gate is a simple problem to solve as you noted, and only one person in the group needs to be an opener. You don't need the best gear or past lives to run elite/R1 as Hardcore has repeatedly demonstrated.

[Cranjis-of-Orien]

Orien has a huge community of people able to run mid-reaper quests. Elite out-of-the-gate is a simple problem to solve as you noted, and only one person in the group needs to be an opener. You don't need the best gear or past lives to run elite/R1 as Hardcore has repeatedly demonstrated.

But not everyone has a group. Not everyone wants a group. What of the f2p people that prefer to solo, but also want to participate in the event? And gear/pl's are a big part in your performance during higher difficulties.

[Stergan]

Who says we aren't taking breaks? That's over two nights, and we break for 15-20 min halfway through. We also break 5-min here and there for various reasons.

I'm sorry I didn't assume information that wasn't provided. The way you phrased it implied it was one session.

Regardless, that point is moot. Earlier I outlined at least 3 ways this decision was bad, there are probably more. So far, the only reason people have that it is "good" is that is what the Devs intended...That sounds a lot like the babysitter telling the kids they aren't allowed to pretend to be a princess unless they wear the special hat.

Not the strongest argument.

[salmag]

Luck has nothing to do with it. It's volume of monsters killed, which you can measure by the number of at-level quest completions just playing the game normally. For example, spending 63 minutes in Soul Survivor is going to be an abysmal key drop rate like redoubt has. Completing 50+ quests in 6-7 min (each) on elite+ is going to net you similar to my drop rate.

So what your saying is that zerging through a quest will yield higher results?

That penalizes new players and flower sniffers and role players that read everything, search everything, break everything, etc...

That is VERY FAULTY design.

One wonders why the player base keeps shrinking, and then wonders which game the Devs are designing for...