Results 1 to 15 of 15
  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    4,051

    Default Heavy vs Medium armor

    Looking at the difference between heavy and medium armor is seems to me that medium armor is almost always best due to higher dodge cap.
    Please enlighten me as to when heavy armor is superior.
    Danskerne
    A Danish Guild on Ghallanda. Send PM if interested.
    Leading Raids Thursdays from 20 CET and Sundays from 21 CET.

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    186

    Default

    When you are piling enhancements/filis/etc that provides % bonus to AC. You also get a bit more PRR with heavy armor but you already know that

  3. #3
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Sarlona
    Posts
    2,727

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Looking at the difference between heavy and medium armor is seems to me that medium armor is almost always best due to higher dodge cap.
    Please enlighten me as to when heavy armor is superior.

    Aside from tanks, which I'm presuming is out of scope...there's a very very limited argument for Heavy over Medium when you know your DPS will take a hit and it's more likely to live with the extra PRR.

    Generally the higher dodge is better.
    Sarlona: Tobril | Syg | Trogbril

  4. #4
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Lacalifusa
    Posts
    5,876
    The Basics of DDO / "Select Adventure Pack" Sales & "How to choose an Adventure Pack"

    "It's hard to win an argument with a smart person, but it's near impossible to win an argument with a stupid person." Bill Murray

  5. #5
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,497

    Default

    pretty simple math
    (discounting spell failure due to armor)
    If your dex is 10 or 12 use heavy
    If your dex is 16+ use medium unless your a dwarf (they still use heavy)

    pretty straight forward.

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    The Abyss
    Posts
    885

    Default

    The real answer is that it depends on your roll, class, build, the specific items you're using, and what content you're running.

    Medium's higher dodge cap is probably overall better.

  7. #7
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Cannith, usually
    Posts
    3,517

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Looking at the difference between heavy and medium armor is seems to me that medium armor is almost always best due to higher dodge cap.
    Please enlighten me as to when heavy armor is superior.
    For toons that aren't hitting Dodge cap (mostly alts) it's strictly superior
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  8. #8
    Community Member fatherpirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    2,497

    Default

    might be easier to just say who NEEDS heavy armor

    Non-dex melee builds
    Non-arcane casters (no spell failure)
    non-dex based specialty builds
    most dwarves

    do keep in mind there is wiggle room on this subject so can
    also fall under personal preference.

  9. #9
    Community Member noinfo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    3,436

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fatherpirate View Post
    might be easier to just say who NEEDS heavy armor

    Non-dex melee builds
    Non-arcane casters (no spell failure)
    non-dex based specialty builds
    most dwarves

    do keep in mind there is wiggle room on this subject so can
    also fall under personal preference.
    MDB while influences the AC provided by the armour really matters more for dodge. Medium provides less innate PRR vs Medium but a higher MDB so higher potential dodge cap. Your AC will probably be a little higher in Heavy as the armour scales more into higher levels but most people will not achieve much from AC later in the game without investment so for most melee Medium is ideal as it is easy to hit dodge cap in it and achieve a few misses in combat as a result.
    Last edited by noinfo; 01-13-2021 at 07:05 AM.
    Milacias of Kyber

    Leader of the Crimson Eagles Kyber

    The Myth- TR will make my character powerful
    The Reality- Those kobolds in Water Works won’t have a chance but nothing else cares-Learn to play your build and all its abilities in actual difficult content, get gear and reaper points in level 30+ content and raids.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    4,051

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    For toons that aren't hitting Dodge cap (mostly alts) it's strictly superior
    At cap a single item is +21 dodge though so hitting dodge cap for medium armor seems pretty easy. Even an augment goes quite a way towards atleast exceeding the heavy armor cap for an alt.

    I know, i didnt specify it was for cap play so your comment may very well apply to lower level play.
    Danskerne
    A Danish Guild on Ghallanda. Send PM if interested.
    Leading Raids Thursdays from 20 CET and Sundays from 21 CET.

  11. #11
    Staggering LightBear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Letters of Lingo
    Posts
    4,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    At cap a single item is +21 dodge though so hitting dodge cap for medium armor seems pretty easy. Even an augment goes quite a way towards atleast exceeding the heavy armor cap for an alt.

    I know, i didnt specify it was for cap play so your comment may very well apply to lower level play.

    True, but the max dodge is also limited by your dex boni.
    And yes, even when sitting as a base 8 dex at char creation of an alt, at end game you prob are looking at a minimum of 28 dex, tho 40 is more likely and 60 common.
    Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that your max dodge and your dex should be raised simultaneously and keep an eye out for things that raise your max dex bonus.

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    3,072

    Default

    The fix is simple, use dodge as implemented in D&D 3.5, where it is an AC bonus. A +21 dodge item then becomes a +21 AC item assuming your dodge chance isn't maxed, which isn't dissimilar from a protection or natural armor item.

  13. #13
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    186

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    The fix is simple, use dodge as implemented in D&D 3.5, where it is an AC bonus. A +21 dodge item then becomes a +21 AC item assuming your dodge chance isn't maxed, which isn't dissimilar from a protection or natural armor item.
    A fix to what?

  14. #14
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Cannith, usually
    Posts
    3,517

    Default

    If you're ever running a tower shield it'll have lower MDB than your armor so might as well get the PRR/AC from Heavy Armor vs Medium.

    And yes, there's times to run a tower shield

    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    At cap a single item is +21 dodge though so hitting dodge cap for medium armor seems pretty easy. Even an augment goes quite a way towards at least exceeding the heavy armor cap for an alt.

    I know, i didnt specify it was for cap play so your comment may very well apply to lower level play.
    I usually can't afford to spare an entire item for one effect on an endgame gearset if it fits neat, but a lot of the time you have a lot of Dodge natively so you're more like getting +5% Dodge or something which really isn't worth an entire item IMO.

    Dodge augments have definitely kicked that argument, but I personally haven't pulled any yet so YMMV.

    Quote Originally Posted by LightBear View Post
    True, but the max dodge is also limited by your dex boni.
    And yes, even when sitting as a base 8 dex at char creation of an alt, at end game you prob are looking at a minimum of 28 dex, tho 40 is more likely and 60 common.
    Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that your max dodge and your dex should be raised simultaneously and keep an eye out for things that raise your max dex bonus.
    Max Dodge is limited by your armor's Max Dex Bonus; AFAIK there's no influence from your character's Dex Bonus. I could totally be missing something though?

    Per Wiki, your Max Dodge is the lowest of these:
    • Your armor's Max Dex Bonus
    • Native Dodge Cap (default 25%)
    • Your Tower shield's Max Dex Bonus
    • Hard Cap of 95% (since U42.4)

    The first three can be raised by enhancements, buffs, etc.

    You can have 8 Dex and 25% Dodge. An easy test is to use Meld Into Darkness; you won't have a 95 Dex Bonus, so it's pretty easy to test that your Dodge > your Dex Bonus.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  15. #15
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Posts
    1,011

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mikarddo View Post
    Looking at the difference between heavy and medium armor is seems to me that medium armor is almost always best due to higher dodge cap. Please enlighten me as to when heavy armor is superior.
    The only reason my tank wears Heavy armor is because Watch-Captain's set doesn't have a Medium or Light armor chest piece in the set. If you have the dodge, dexterity, HP, & PRR for it: Light > Medium > Heavy. Dodgy builds do get pasted when they get hit, they just don't get hit as often. Think of it as making healing more exciting for your cleric.

    Base D&D weighs AC as MUCH more important to reducing damage than DDO does and DDO didn't update the heavier choices to be mathematically superior or even equivalent to the lighter ones when it added scaling factors to mitigation and accuracy.

    It would be pretty easy to fix, too. Instead of a PRR bonus scaled on BAB, it should just be an outright mitigation bonus equivalent to the MDB disparity between the types plus a bit more to cover the armor check penalty "cost" of wearing heavier. Or, they could return to D&D's roots and base the scaling on AC. That trashes a decade? of existing gear, but on the bright side (for SSG), think of all the crystals to be sold for re-farming gear!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload