Heavy vs Medium armor

[mikarddo]

Looking at the difference between heavy and medium armor is seems to me that medium armor is almost always best due to higher dodge cap.
Please enlighten me as to when heavy armor is superior.

[LiveFast]

When you are piling enhancements/filis/etc that provides % bonus to AC. You also get a bit more PRR with heavy armor but you already know that

[Tobril]

Looking at the difference between heavy and medium armor is seems to me that medium armor is almost always best due to higher dodge cap.
Please enlighten me as to when heavy armor is superior.

Aside from tanks, which I'm presuming is out of scope...there's a very very limited argument for Heavy over Medium when you know your DPS will take a hit and it's more likely to live with the extra PRR.

Generally the higher dodge is better.

[C-Dog]

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Physical_Re...e_Rating#Items

[fatherpirate]

pretty simple math
(discounting spell failure due to armor)
If your dex is 10 or 12 use heavy
If your dex is 16+ use medium unless your a dwarf (they still use heavy)

pretty straight forward.

[FlavoredSoul]

The real answer is that it depends on your roll, class, build, the specific items you're using, and what content you're running.

Medium's higher dodge cap is probably overall better.

[SpartanKiller13]

Looking at the difference between heavy and medium armor is seems to me that medium armor is almost always best due to higher dodge cap.
Please enlighten me as to when heavy armor is superior.

For toons that aren't hitting Dodge cap (mostly alts) it's strictly superior

[fatherpirate]

might be easier to just say who NEEDS heavy armor

Non-dex melee builds
Non-arcane casters (no spell failure)
non-dex based specialty builds
most dwarves

do keep in mind there is wiggle room on this subject so can
also fall under personal preference.

[noinfo]

might be easier to just say who NEEDS heavy armor

Non-dex melee builds
Non-arcane casters (no spell failure)
non-dex based specialty builds
most dwarves

do keep in mind there is wiggle room on this subject so can
also fall under personal preference.

MDB while influences the AC provided by the armour really matters more for dodge. Medium provides less innate PRR vs Medium but a higher MDB so higher potential dodge cap. Your AC will probably be a little higher in Heavy as the armour scales more into higher levels but most people will not achieve much from AC later in the game without investment so for most melee Medium is ideal as it is easy to hit dodge cap in it and achieve a few misses in combat as a result.

[mikarddo]

For toons that aren't hitting Dodge cap (mostly alts) it's strictly superior

At cap a single item is +21 dodge though so hitting dodge cap for medium armor seems pretty easy. Even an augment goes quite a way towards atleast exceeding the heavy armor cap for an alt.

I know, i didnt specify it was for cap play so your comment may very well apply to lower level play.

[LightBear]

At cap a single item is +21 dodge though so hitting dodge cap for medium armor seems pretty easy. Even an augment goes quite a way towards atleast exceeding the heavy armor cap for an alt.

I know, i didnt specify it was for cap play so your comment may very well apply to lower level play.

True, but the max dodge is also limited by your dex boni.
And yes, even when sitting as a base 8 dex at char creation of an alt, at end game you prob are looking at a minimum of 28 dex, tho 40 is more likely and 60 common.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that your max dodge and your dex should be raised simultaneously and keep an eye out for things that raise your max dex bonus.

[Tilomere]

The fix is simple, use dodge as implemented in D&D 3.5, where it is an AC bonus. A +21 dodge item then becomes a +21 AC item assuming your dodge chance isn't maxed, which isn't dissimilar from a protection or natural armor item.

[LiveFast]

The fix is simple, use dodge as implemented in D&D 3.5, where it is an AC bonus. A +21 dodge item then becomes a +21 AC item assuming your dodge chance isn't maxed, which isn't dissimilar from a protection or natural armor item.

A fix to what?

[SpartanKiller13]

If you're ever running a tower shield it'll have lower MDB than your armor so might as well get the PRR/AC from Heavy Armor vs Medium.

And yes, there's times to run a tower shield

At cap a single item is +21 dodge though so hitting dodge cap for medium armor seems pretty easy. Even an augment goes quite a way towards at least exceeding the heavy armor cap for an alt.

I know, i didnt specify it was for cap play so your comment may very well apply to lower level play.

I usually can't afford to spare an entire item for one effect on an endgame gearset if it fits neat, but a lot of the time you have a lot of Dodge natively so you're more like getting +5% Dodge or something which really isn't worth an entire item IMO.

Dodge augments have definitely kicked that argument, but I personally haven't pulled any yet so YMMV.

True, but the max dodge is also limited by your dex boni.
And yes, even when sitting as a base 8 dex at char creation of an alt, at end game you prob are looking at a minimum of 28 dex, tho 40 is more likely and 60 common.
Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that your max dodge and your dex should be raised simultaneously and keep an eye out for things that raise your max dex bonus.

Max Dodge is limited by your armor's Max Dex Bonus; AFAIK there's no influence from your character's Dex Bonus. I could totally be missing something though?

Per Wiki, your Max Dodge is the lowest of these:

• Your armor's Max Dex Bonus
• Native Dodge Cap (default 25%)
• Your Tower shield's Max Dex Bonus
• Hard Cap of 95% (since U42.4)

The first three can be raised by enhancements, buffs, etc.

You can have 8 Dex and 25% Dodge. An easy test is to use Meld Into Darkness; you won't have a 95 Dex Bonus, so it's pretty easy to test that your Dodge > your Dex Bonus.

[Bjond]

Looking at the difference between heavy and medium armor is seems to me that medium armor is almost always best due to higher dodge cap. Please enlighten me as to when heavy armor is superior.

The only reason my tank wears Heavy armor is because Watch-Captain's set doesn't have a Medium or Light armor chest piece in the set. If you have the dodge, dexterity, HP, & PRR for it: Light > Medium > Heavy. Dodgy builds do get pasted when they get hit, they just don't get hit as often. Think of it as making healing more exciting for your cleric.

Base D&D weighs AC as MUCH more important to reducing damage than DDO does and DDO didn't update the heavier choices to be mathematically superior or even equivalent to the lighter ones when it added scaling factors to mitigation and accuracy.

It would be pretty easy to fix, too. Instead of a PRR bonus scaled on BAB, it should just be an outright mitigation bonus equivalent to the MDB disparity between the types plus a bit more to cover the armor check penalty "cost" of wearing heavier. Or, they could return to D&D's roots and base the scaling on AC. That trashes a decade? of existing gear, but on the bright side (for SSG), think of all the crystals to be sold for re-farming gear!