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  1. #1
    Community Member Ripjaw7's Avatar
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    Default Overall Thoughts and Experience Playing a Rogue [Melee Focused]

    For about a week now, I have been playing a 'Vistani double-dagger rogue', and have had a lot of leveling and gearing it. Overall, its ability in groups is outstanding, however, when you want to solo, that's when things can get a bit hairy.

    Starting off, rogue is not what you may consider a straightforward defensive class. It's lack of proficiencies in heavy armor and other common weapons makes it so you really only have three paths to take. Although it can be a very agile class if built correctly, this does not account for the times that the monsters do see you, and are able to hit you. Rogues do not get very high physical and magical resistance scores, so when they are hit, it really hurts. Additionally, since rogues are not proficient in heavy armor, and must choose between heavy armor and evasion, evasion is always the answer. However, evasion is only protecting you from monsters hitting you, not when they do hit you. This said, evasion makes it really easy to dodge out of the way of enemies quickly, and avoid trap damage too. However, since I like to play in reaper mode, specifically higher reaper mode with groups, evasion is not the only thing I can account for. I also need to account for my dodge chance, because in reaper mode, not only do the monsters hit harder, they hit more often.

    Increasing your dodge percentage as a rogue is priority over most other things because it is a whole other chance that a monster has to bypass to hit you. They do roll to hit but then they also have to see if their roll passes your dodge percentage. The maximum dodge chance that I have been able to achieve is 40%, which is a very good percentage to have as a rogue. The only problem with increasing your dodge, is your dodge cap. Different armor types have different dodge capstones, where they don't allow your dodge to contribute any more to your defensive ability. A light armor normally caps around 28-30% dodge, whereas cloth armor does not have a capstone. To attain a dodge of 40%, you will need to wear cloth armor. Cloth armor is not the most defensive because, yes, it does give you move dodge, but it takes a ton away from your armor class. In the game, I have found it to be easier to wear light armor and have my dodge cap off, and have more armor class, than have more dodge. I have figured that the armor class is possibly rolled and calculated before your dodge chance, which I cannot be 100% on.

    Although it is hard to find the right items to increase your dodge, rogue's get Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge, which gives you an uncapped 25%/50% dodge for 20 seconds. Additionally, in epic and legendary levels, rogues can take 'Meld into Darkness' in the "Shadowdancer" epic destiny. When you activate this ability, you gain 100% dodge chance, uncapped, for up to 15 seconds. I will write up my build and my gear list if you are interested in seeing this mechanic in action. Besides a rogue's lack of defenses, it's offensive capabilities are pure outstanding. Rogues can acquire several debuffing attacks such as Shiv, from the assassin tree, which will lower their opponent's fortitude score. Although a lower fortitude score does not deal extra damage to the monster, it helps reduce the save roll of a rogue's assassinate ability. Assassinate is probably the most important attack that a rogue has, because as a rogue assassin, you are a trash-clearer, and boss beater. The easiest way to clear trash and minibosses is putting them up with a fortitude saving throw. The way that I like to assassinate, is to lower their fortitude saving throw with either Shiv or Heartseeker Poison, (two attacks from the Assassin tree), and then sneak, and assassinate. The DC for a rogue assassinate attempt is (10 + rge level + DEX or INT mod). Shiv and Heartseeker do not impose any saves on the monsters, and they automatically lose their fortitude on hit. The hard part of assassinating is that you need to be sneaking to do the attack, and if they can see or hear you, the assassinate attempt might backfire. While attacking a monster who is not a raid boss or red named boss, you need to make sure that you do not have the attention and 'agro' of that monster. This will make it so you can debuff them, and then sneak and assassinate them without being noticed. Sneaking is a whole other thing to talk about, which leads me into our next topic: a rogue's sneaking ability.

    Sneaking as a rogue is crucial for it's success, as it is in their best interest not to be seen or attacked at all. A rogue's sneaking ability takes the skills; Move Silently, and Hide, into account. It is important to increase both of these as you level because you need to have both of them high to sneak past some monsters. If you only increase move silently, the monster will still see you, so it won't matter, and if you increase your hide, they will still hear you, so again, sneaking won't matter.

    Besides sneaking around, I feel that it is important for a rogue to have good trapping skills, as this can make or break a party. During my heroic leveling process, I completely neglected to improve my intelligence score, as well as the spot/search, and the disable device skill. As a rogue in my groups, I found it difficult to help with the trapping because of this, and in some cases, I had to finish on my own. I decided to lesser reincarnate to give myself more intelligence and trapping skills, which are right where they need to be for my trapping ability.

    I cannot stress enough that if you play a rogue, it is not only your ability to assassinate and sneak that you can contribute to your groups. By creating a balanced character with Dexterity and Intelligence as your main stats, and then adding in Charisma into the build, you will be so beneficial to your groups! Charisma will help your bluff attacks if you choose to take any, but mainly to increase your Use Magical Device (UMD) score. UMD might not seem important at lower levels, but your ability to use certain scrolls really comes in handy in epic leveling and at cap. By making a rogue, any character at that, have the ability to trap, raise and heal, that one person will be a very beneficial person to have in your party.

    I think that the main problem of rogue is that you have to be properly geared for it. It becomes very hard when you are trying to farm up gear during the actual time you are a rogue because you will probably be weaker without that piece you need. I recommend farming your gear on another character so you are already fully geared when you play your rogue, and so you can get right into the fun. This said, many weapons that a rogue would want drop in raids, and the standard daggers in the game from Ravenloft or Sharn will not suffice. Gearing a rogue can be very difficult, so planning out your gear is essential to make a rogue that fits your vision.

    In the end, rogue is a very powerful class, it can be very evasive and deadly, but I feel that it's lack of defenses when they actually get hit can be deadly as well. The lack of gear for a rogue makes it so you have to set on a straight path for your rogue, and have a specific idea of what you want your character to be. I feel that rogue is a very fun class to play, but it is limiting as well. It is not a very flexible class, especially if you are a min/max-er. It brings a whole new playstyle into the mix as well, which can be pretty hard to get the grasp of right away, and it becomes harder the higher in level you go. I do recommend playing this class, but it is a class you really need to learn to play and gear. Although this thread has been focused on a double dagger rogue, I feel that playing a ranged one can be just as hard. Throughout the leveling process, make sure you continuously identify what you want to be able to do as a rogue. Do you want to trap more? or kill more? This will help prioritize your character, and will allow you to increase what you think is best. For a rogue, it is hard to think about level 30 when starting character creation, so I recommend taking it slow, and getting to know the playstyle. This will get you the best rogue that you can think of!

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripjaw7 View Post
    For about a week now, I have been playing a 'Vistani double-dagger rogue', and have had a lot of leveling and gearing it. Overall, its ability in groups is outstanding, however, when you want to solo, that's when things can get a bit hairy.

    Starting off, rogue is not what you may consider a straightforward defensive class. It's lack of proficiencies in heavy armor and other common weapons makes it so you really only have three paths to take. Although it can be a very agile class if built correctly, this does not account for the times that the monsters do see you, and are able to hit you. Rogues do not get very high physical and magical resistance scores, so when they are hit, it really hurts. Additionally, since rogues are not proficient in heavy armor, and must choose between heavy armor and evasion, evasion is always the answer. However, evasion is only protecting you from monsters hitting you, not when they do hit you. This said, evasion makes it really easy to dodge out of the way of enemies quickly, and avoid trap damage too. However, since I like to play in reaper mode, specifically higher reaper mode with groups, evasion is not the only thing I can account for. I also need to account for my dodge chance, because in reaper mode, not only do the monsters hit harder, they hit more often.

    Increasing your dodge percentage as a rogue is priority over most other things because it is a whole other chance that a monster has to bypass to hit you. They do roll to hit but then they also have to see if their roll passes your dodge percentage. The maximum dodge chance that I have been able to achieve is 40%, which is a very good percentage to have as a rogue. The only problem with increasing your dodge, is your dodge cap. Different armor types have different dodge capstones, where they don't allow your dodge to contribute any more to your defensive ability. A light armor normally caps around 28-30% dodge, whereas cloth armor does not have a capstone. To attain a dodge of 40%, you will need to wear cloth armor. Cloth armor is not the most defensive because, yes, it does give you move dodge, but it takes a ton away from your armor class. In the game, I have found it to be easier to wear light armor and have my dodge cap off, and have more armor class, than have more dodge. I have figured that the armor class is possibly rolled and calculated before your dodge chance, which I cannot be 100% on.

    Although it is hard to find the right items to increase your dodge, rogue's get Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge, which gives you an uncapped 25%/50% dodge for 20 seconds. Additionally, in epic and legendary levels, rogues can take 'Meld into Darkness' in the "Shadowdancer" epic destiny. When you activate this ability, you gain 100% dodge chance, uncapped, for up to 15 seconds. I will write up my build and my gear list if you are interested in seeing this mechanic in action. Besides a rogue's lack of defenses, it's offensive capabilities are pure outstanding. Rogues can acquire several debuffing attacks such as Shiv, from the assassin tree, which will lower their opponent's fortitude score. Although a lower fortitude score does not deal extra damage to the monster, it helps reduce the save roll of a rogue's assassinate ability. Assassinate is probably the most important attack that a rogue has, because as a rogue assassin, you are a trash-clearer, and boss beater. The easiest way to clear trash and minibosses is putting them up with a fortitude saving throw. The way that I like to assassinate, is to lower their fortitude saving throw with either Shiv or Heartseeker Poison, (two attacks from the Assassin tree), and then sneak, and assassinate. The DC for a rogue assassinate attempt is (10 + rge level + DEX or INT mod). Shiv and Heartseeker do not impose any saves on the monsters, and they automatically lose their fortitude on hit. The hard part of assassinating is that you need to be sneaking to do the attack, and if they can see or hear you, the assassinate attempt might backfire. While attacking a monster who is not a raid boss or red named boss, you need to make sure that you do not have the attention and 'agro' of that monster. This will make it so you can debuff them, and then sneak and assassinate them without being noticed. Sneaking is a whole other thing to talk about, which leads me into our next topic: a rogue's sneaking ability.

    Sneaking as a rogue is crucial for it's success, as it is in their best interest not to be seen or attacked at all. A rogue's sneaking ability takes the skills; Move Silently, and Hide, into account. It is important to increase both of these as you level because you need to have both of them high to sneak past some monsters. If you only increase move silently, the monster will still see you, so it won't matter, and if you increase your hide, they will still hear you, so again, sneaking won't matter.

    Besides sneaking around, I feel that it is important for a rogue to have good trapping skills, as this can make or break a party. During my heroic leveling process, I completely neglected to improve my intelligence score, as well as the spot/search, and the disable device skill. As a rogue in my groups, I found it difficult to help with the trapping because of this, and in some cases, I had to finish on my own. I decided to lesser reincarnate to give myself more intelligence and trapping skills, which are right where they need to be for my trapping ability.

    I cannot stress enough that if you play a rogue, it is not only your ability to assassinate and sneak that you can contribute to your groups. By creating a balanced character with Dexterity and Intelligence as your main stats, and then adding in Charisma into the build, you will be so beneficial to your groups! Charisma will help your bluff attacks if you choose to take any, but mainly to increase your Use Magical Device (UMD) score. UMD might not seem important at lower levels, but your ability to use certain scrolls really comes in handy in epic leveling and at cap. By making a rogue, any character at that, have the ability to trap, raise and heal, that one person will be a very beneficial person to have in your party.

    I think that the main problem of rogue is that you have to be properly geared for it. It becomes very hard when you are trying to farm up gear during the actual time you are a rogue because you will probably be weaker without that piece you need. I recommend farming your gear on another character so you are already fully geared when you play your rogue, and so you can get right into the fun. This said, many weapons that a rogue would want drop in raids, and the standard daggers in the game from Ravenloft or Sharn will not suffice. Gearing a rogue can be very difficult, so planning out your gear is essential to make a rogue that fits your vision.

    In the end, rogue is a very powerful class, it can be very evasive and deadly, but I feel that it's lack of defenses when they actually get hit can be deadly as well. The lack of gear for a rogue makes it so you have to set on a straight path for your rogue, and have a specific idea of what you want your character to be. I feel that rogue is a very fun class to play, but it is limiting as well. It is not a very flexible class, especially if you are a min/max-er. It brings a whole new playstyle into the mix as well, which can be pretty hard to get the grasp of right away, and it becomes harder the higher in level you go. I do recommend playing this class, but it is a class you really need to learn to play and gear. Although this thread has been focused on a double dagger rogue, I feel that playing a ranged one can be just as hard. Throughout the leveling process, make sure you continuously identify what you want to be able to do as a rogue. Do you want to trap more? or kill more? This will help prioritize your character, and will allow you to increase what you think is best. For a rogue, it is hard to think about level 30 when starting character creation, so I recommend taking it slow, and getting to know the playstyle. This will get you the best rogue that you can think of!


    Welcome aboard the Rogue Express, the fast track to a long ride.
    Playing rogue is hard fun, but when you do it right, it's very rewarding. Play skills is very important.
    If you never played a sneak/stealth recovery type class. One way to practice is to go in a mid level quest to your level. Grab some aggro while not having anything on(armour/gear/weapons) except maybe things to help your hide/move silently. Practice getting out of that mess(escaping it). Since you won't be one-shotted, it will be a little forgiving if you get hit several times. If you can recover from that, then you are going down the right path. Assassinating can be a little tricky if you are new, but practice and you should be proficient enough from there.
    After you can get away from mobs enough to live out of that blown cover. Then work in the offense/counter attack, knowing if your HP is low you have a better chance of surviving and recovering.

    Tip 01: Blinding mobs can be a get out of jail card to use on mobs chasing you. Use Glitterdust trap/scrolls. When your UMD is high enough carry Power Word: Blind scrolls/or Radiance weapons(a dagger/ranged throwing dagger or repeater/Great xbow).
    This can buy you more time and ability to counter ambush.
    Blinding stuff gets you Sneak Attack damage as well. An often forgotten art.
    Back in the day playing Chronoscope, I actually was able to sneak in the beginning area/circle. Assassinate Casters. Go to second floor and Neg level a Bearded Devil several times and FOD him all with scrolls. Not the fastest way to take out a mob, but it was stealthy.
    Of course a caster could do that with a quickness. But it was satisfying being able to do it as a rogue and maintain my anonymity.

    Would be great if devs could rework scroll casting for rogues as the Mechanic Tree use to give us mechanical canines before.
    Artificer was what a mechanic rogue resembled minus the rune arm.
    Would be nice if they put back Vorpal on any weapon with Assassin capstone.
    Monks seem to still have it as one of there options.

  3. #3
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Some issues with Assassin tree include:

    Poison Strikes (Heartseeker, Icy Chill, Soulshatter): Never had it's DC's improved during the pass, so not worth taken one until around levels 10-12. When trying Icy Chill I've never seen anything become Paralysis. Same with the other strikes as DC is useless.

    Toxin Affinity: Poison Strikes issue makes this useless other than 3 saves vs poison that not worth 3 action points.

    Shiv: Cooldown of 12 seconds is too long. Compared to Exposing Strike 6 seconds and Unbalancing Strike 3 seconds.

    Venomed Blades: Useful at lower levels but doesn't scale too well.

    Bleed Them Out: Weaker version of Vistani's Bleeding Cuts and I have no idea if they stack as I never use them.

    Shadow Dagger: Projectile speed is far too slow to be useful and should move as fast as a throwing dagger.

  4. #4
    Bounty Hunter slarden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripjaw7 View Post
    For about a week now, I have been playing a 'Vistani double-dagger rogue', and have had a lot of leveling and gearing it. Overall, its ability in groups is outstanding, however, when you want to solo, that's when things can get a bit hairy.

    Starting off, rogue is not what you may consider a straightforward defensive class. It's lack of proficiencies in heavy armor and other common weapons makes it so you really only have three paths to take. Although it can be a very agile class if built correctly, this does not account for the times that the monsters do see you, and are able to hit you. Rogues do not get very high physical and magical resistance scores, so when they are hit, it really hurts. Additionally, since rogues are not proficient in heavy armor, and must choose between heavy armor and evasion, evasion is always the answer. However, evasion is only protecting you from monsters hitting you, not when they do hit you. This said, evasion makes it really easy to dodge out of the way of enemies quickly, and avoid trap damage too. However, since I like to play in reaper mode, specifically higher reaper mode with groups, evasion is not the only thing I can account for. I also need to account for my dodge chance, because in reaper mode, not only do the monsters hit harder, they hit more often.

    Increasing your dodge percentage as a rogue is priority over most other things because it is a whole other chance that a monster has to bypass to hit you. They do roll to hit but then they also have to see if their roll passes your dodge percentage. The maximum dodge chance that I have been able to achieve is 40%, which is a very good percentage to have as a rogue. The only problem with increasing your dodge, is your dodge cap. Different armor types have different dodge capstones, where they don't allow your dodge to contribute any more to your defensive ability. A light armor normally caps around 28-30% dodge, whereas cloth armor does not have a capstone. To attain a dodge of 40%, you will need to wear cloth armor. Cloth armor is not the most defensive because, yes, it does give you move dodge, but it takes a ton away from your armor class. In the game, I have found it to be easier to wear light armor and have my dodge cap off, and have more armor class, than have more dodge. I have figured that the armor class is possibly rolled and calculated before your dodge chance, which I cannot be 100% on.

    Although it is hard to find the right items to increase your dodge, rogue's get Uncanny/Improved Uncanny Dodge, which gives you an uncapped 25%/50% dodge for 20 seconds. Additionally, in epic and legendary levels, rogues can take 'Meld into Darkness' in the "Shadowdancer" epic destiny. When you activate this ability, you gain 100% dodge chance, uncapped, for up to 15 seconds. I will write up my build and my gear list if you are interested in seeing this mechanic in action. Besides a rogue's lack of defenses, it's offensive capabilities are pure outstanding. Rogues can acquire several debuffing attacks such as Shiv, from the assassin tree, which will lower their opponent's fortitude score. Although a lower fortitude score does not deal extra damage to the monster, it helps reduce the save roll of a rogue's assassinate ability. Assassinate is probably the most important attack that a rogue has, because as a rogue assassin, you are a trash-clearer, and boss beater. The easiest way to clear trash and minibosses is putting them up with a fortitude saving throw. The way that I like to assassinate, is to lower their fortitude saving throw with either Shiv or Heartseeker Poison, (two attacks from the Assassin tree), and then sneak, and assassinate. The DC for a rogue assassinate attempt is (10 + rge level + DEX or INT mod). Shiv and Heartseeker do not impose any saves on the monsters, and they automatically lose their fortitude on hit. The hard part of assassinating is that you need to be sneaking to do the attack, and if they can see or hear you, the assassinate attempt might backfire. While attacking a monster who is not a raid boss or red named boss, you need to make sure that you do not have the attention and 'agro' of that monster. This will make it so you can debuff them, and then sneak and assassinate them without being noticed. Sneaking is a whole other thing to talk about, which leads me into our next topic: a rogue's sneaking ability.

    Sneaking as a rogue is crucial for it's success, as it is in their best interest not to be seen or attacked at all. A rogue's sneaking ability takes the skills; Move Silently, and Hide, into account. It is important to increase both of these as you level because you need to have both of them high to sneak past some monsters. If you only increase move silently, the monster will still see you, so it won't matter, and if you increase your hide, they will still hear you, so again, sneaking won't matter.

    Besides sneaking around, I feel that it is important for a rogue to have good trapping skills, as this can make or break a party. During my heroic leveling process, I completely neglected to improve my intelligence score, as well as the spot/search, and the disable device skill. As a rogue in my groups, I found it difficult to help with the trapping because of this, and in some cases, I had to finish on my own. I decided to lesser reincarnate to give myself more intelligence and trapping skills, which are right where they need to be for my trapping ability.

    I cannot stress enough that if you play a rogue, it is not only your ability to assassinate and sneak that you can contribute to your groups. By creating a balanced character with Dexterity and Intelligence as your main stats, and then adding in Charisma into the build, you will be so beneficial to your groups! Charisma will help your bluff attacks if you choose to take any, but mainly to increase your Use Magical Device (UMD) score. UMD might not seem important at lower levels, but your ability to use certain scrolls really comes in handy in epic leveling and at cap. By making a rogue, any character at that, have the ability to trap, raise and heal, that one person will be a very beneficial person to have in your party.

    I think that the main problem of rogue is that you have to be properly geared for it. It becomes very hard when you are trying to farm up gear during the actual time you are a rogue because you will probably be weaker without that piece you need. I recommend farming your gear on another character so you are already fully geared when you play your rogue, and so you can get right into the fun. This said, many weapons that a rogue would want drop in raids, and the standard daggers in the game from Ravenloft or Sharn will not suffice. Gearing a rogue can be very difficult, so planning out your gear is essential to make a rogue that fits your vision.

    In the end, rogue is a very powerful class, it can be very evasive and deadly, but I feel that it's lack of defenses when they actually get hit can be deadly as well. The lack of gear for a rogue makes it so you have to set on a straight path for your rogue, and have a specific idea of what you want your character to be. I feel that rogue is a very fun class to play, but it is limiting as well. It is not a very flexible class, especially if you are a min/max-er. It brings a whole new playstyle into the mix as well, which can be pretty hard to get the grasp of right away, and it becomes harder the higher in level you go. I do recommend playing this class, but it is a class you really need to learn to play and gear. Although this thread has been focused on a double dagger rogue, I feel that playing a ranged one can be just as hard. Throughout the leveling process, make sure you continuously identify what you want to be able to do as a rogue. Do you want to trap more? or kill more? This will help prioritize your character, and will allow you to increase what you think is best. For a rogue, it is hard to think about level 30 when starting character creation, so I recommend taking it slow, and getting to know the playstyle. This will get you the best rogue that you can think of!
    Nice write-up! I am a long-time assassin-player, but switched out after the stealth changes but more recently have been building up gear to play assassin on an alt. Assassins are much better in group play because a big part of their defense is threat reduction which isn't as effective soloing. What I found is I could still solo alot of content, but I had to be flexible with destiny - I always prefer shadowdancer but sometimes would switch to legendary dreadnought for some quests.

    My opinion is that you should never be using bluff as an assassin. It's slow and in general inferior to improved deception which happens automatically while attacking. You should try to have improved deception on a weapon and an item as they stack - and if you do that it's basically proc'd 100%. Between dire charge and balanced attacks it's easy to generate helplessness.

    The biggest issue assassins face is high damage melee cleaves because all the threat reduction in the world doesn't matter if the tank has aggro but you are still getting hit with big cleaves. This is less of a problem now than it was when level cap just moved to 30 and alot of those cleaves resulted in one shots. PRR and HP potential are much higher now so an assassin isn't relying solely on dodge so much. Displacement clickies are a must - I use heroic gs for mine because it's less of a grind. Good use/timing of meld and uncanny dodge are still key defensive elements. And of course in shadowdancer you have 25% incorporeal. Between displacement clickies, dodge and incorporeal you are eliminating 80% of the hits right from the start.

    In terms of build I think assassin has two flavors - dex build with heavy investment in thief-acrobat for defensive benefits or a KTA int build for max dps and dire charge DC.

    I personally prefer int. I have my level 30 gearset figured out and there are quite a few raid items for sure - so you are absolutely right about gearing being tough.
    DC Warlock Reaper Build (U48)
    Max DC Illusionist Reaper Build (U48)

  5. #5

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    assassin rogue-- levels 1-11 good dps, glass cannon
    12+--instakill, superb dps, glass cannon

    If only playing heroics, the problem becomes half those levels, 1-11

    Ways to make things funner:
    1) splash 1 monk (get use wraps against pesky blobby things, skellies, rusties etc basically stuff rogues don't like); run in fire stance later with perfect pinnacle and vistani daggers for blinding foes often (perfect pinnacle ring does this)
    2) splash 1 barb instead of monk makes you run waaaay faster and sneak much faster. You give up capstone DPS. Since you are already giving up the capstone, do 1 cleric as well and then you can 1) get blood of vol and maybe that nice dull dagger... 2) turn undead so you can twist Confront any Foe without wasting another twist on having Turn undead. FYI Confront any foe does not break stealth
    3) splash 1 barb and 1 wizard. GTWF pushed back to level 18 (not great) but you gain magical training, quicken and two options from enhancements: archmage invisi sla for 1 AP and Eldritch strike for 1 AP (which does not break stealth either...). You can also take extend as a free feat and use elven dragonmarks if you want to burn AP in the elf tree and assuming you are an elf. Just make sure to have gear that gives you an extra DM use so you can shrine/start of quest swap
    4) get PL Delver of Forbidden for 10 uses per rest of confuse, no save, does not break stealth. BUT the duration is very short in reaper mode when you really want tricks like these
    Wiki dashboard with some useful stealthplay links
    Proud Knight Templar of the Silver Legion, Cannith: Saekee (main; epic completionist); Parked Toons: Katwoemyn (10), Saelegion (4), Alitirala (>17), Naerfelka (>21)
    wounded and burnt from many mistakes and still stumbling!


  6. #6
    Community Member HuneyMunster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slarden View Post
    My opinion is that you should never be using bluff as an assassin.
    For heroics bluff is almost necessary due to not having easy access for Improved Deception items. I would suggest maxing Bluff ranks and Cha/Bluff item, take Improved Feint for AoE bluff and use the regular bluff skill to bluff target as you approach it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Saekee View Post
    assassin rogue-- levels 1-11 good dps, glass cannon
    12+--instakill, superb dps, glass cannon

    If only playing heroics, the problem becomes half those levels, 1-11

    Ways to make things funner:
    1) splash 1 monk (get use wraps against pesky blobby things, skellies, rusties etc basically stuff rogues don't like); run in fire stance later with perfect pinnacle and vistani daggers for blinding foes often (perfect pinnacle ring does this)
    2) splash 1 barb instead of monk makes you run waaaay faster and sneak much faster. You give up capstone DPS. Since you are already giving up the capstone, do 1 cleric as well and then you can 1) get blood of vol and maybe that nice dull dagger... 2) turn undead so you can twist Confront any Foe without wasting another twist on having Turn undead. FYI Confront any foe does not break stealth
    3) splash 1 barb and 1 wizard. GTWF pushed back to level 18 (not great) but you gain magical training, quicken and two options from enhancements: archmage invisi sla for 1 AP and Eldritch strike for 1 AP (which does not break stealth either...). You can also take extend as a free feat and use elven dragonmarks if you want to burn AP in the elf tree and assuming you are an elf. Just make sure to have gear that gives you an extra DM use so you can shrine/start of quest swap
    4) get PL Delver of Forbidden for 10 uses per rest of confuse, no save, does not break stealth. BUT the duration is very short in reaper mode when you really want tricks like these
    For heroic only builds, I would think Saekee suggestions are worth noting. Two monk splash probably offers most dps at cap but Assassinate takes a little hit.

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