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  1. #1
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    Default Arch mage and sorcs

    So 10 + years now any word on if there ever gona get a pass or what
    Damonz Cannith

  2. #2
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    They said they want to do an archmage pass, but it's a huge amount of work for one tree.

    Basically Archmage's pass just keeps getting kicked down the road as other things are deemed better value relative to dev resources.

    Bow pass and new tree is coming first.

    If the rumor mill is correct then Monk pass is likely coming first.

    Levelcap raise and second phase of the ED pass/rework is likely coming first.

    even a Savant mini-pass is likely coming first.

    I wouldn't get my hopes up of it making it into 2021.

    I mean maybe they'll pull a surprise and say "here's archmage updated lol" next week, but it's very unlikely.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    They said they want to do an archmage pass, but it's a huge amount of work for one tree.

    Basically Archmage's pass just keeps getting kicked down the road as other things are deemed better value relative to dev resources.

    Bow pass and new tree is coming first.

    If the rumor mill is correct then Monk pass is likely coming first.

    Levelcap raise and second phase of the ED pass/rework is likely coming first.

    even a Savant mini-pass is likely coming first.

    I wouldn't get my hopes up of it making it into 2021.

    I mean maybe they'll pull a surprise and say "here's archmage updated lol" next week, but it's very unlikely.
    If they just made the T5 crit buff less random and buffed the force SLAs a bit I think it would be playable. Simple stopgap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    If they just made the T5 crit buff less random and buffed the force SLAs a bit I think it would be playable. Simple stopgap.
    SSG doesn't tend to like stopgap measures, they'd rather rework it entirely all at once (and then spend several months to a year fixing all the things they broke)

    The amount of forum rage required for them to do a stopgap bow buff when they nerfed inquisitive and IPS was massive, and even then half of the stopgap didn't work and still doesn't.

  5. #5
    Community Member mr420247's Avatar
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    I almost have a working am build or would kill for a mini sorc pass and ya gota sell monkchers bow trees ***

    Throw arcane bolt tier 1 blast 2 xxx 3 done im ready and double spell power crits for what it costs
    Last edited by mr420247; 01-02-2021 at 09:14 PM.
    Damonz Cannith

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    Most likely we going to get a compressed AM, into a much smaller kit. Altho if i were a dev i would play with the thought to script convert all Wiz spells into an SLA, give players a School pick in c1, then use various T1-5 to pick any spell you like as an SLA. Possibly requiring the spell focus feats for the T3-4s to stop people making too many pseudo arcane->martial splashes.

    TBH, i would probably start with a rename, Archmage suggest a high level of rank, instead of the focus/ what it does.



    Sorcerers will probably get another nerf or two, because the demanding crowd rarely possess deductive skills and a clue about general relativity, eg: playing 10 years old content massively over level with 3 years worth of grinds on a character :P.


    ~Put a 10s ICD on the capstone immunity breaker, double MS cooldown, and you suddenly get 2 players with an endgame Savant Sorcerer left in game, that is how balanced things are .
    Last edited by janave; 01-03-2021 at 02:34 AM.

  7. #7
    Community Member dennisck2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Sorcerers will probably get another nerf or two, because the demanding crowd rarely possess deductive skills and a clue about general relativity, eg: playing 10 years old content massively over level with 3 years worth of grinds on a character :P.
    This.
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  8. #8
    Community Member kanordog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    bow buff

    It will be a universal tree coming with the new expansion, like vistani or inquisitive. So it is not f2p. To me it means it is not a bow buff but a p2w solution which will be way overpowered. (I am guessing +w/core and imbues etc.).

    Both wizzy and sorc are f2p classes, they won't be upgraded for awhile.
    You nerfed my monks, dailies and alchemists.
    I nerfed your profit on two accounts.

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    Sorc pass? Really? In what universe do sorcs need an enhancement pass? They already trivialise all content lower than r4. So unless for the first time a 'pass' means nerfs - like maybe, I don't know...just pulling stuff out of the air here...an internal cooldown on immunity bypass, and a longer cooldown on meteor swarm - I don't think it should happen and I don't think it will.

    It would be great if archmage could get a pass though. That tree is utterly dead.
    Last edited by SynalonEtuul; 01-03-2021 at 07:54 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by kanordog View Post
    It will be a universal tree coming with the new expansion, like vistani or inquisitive. So it is not f2p. To me it means it is not a bow buff but a p2w solution which will be way overpowered. (I am guessing +w/core and imbues etc.).
    Steelstar said they would look at the bow attack speed cap, so they are clearly planning some kind of general bow buff.

  11. #11
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    As further feedback on simple AM fixes, I think they should add the feat Energy Substitution to DDO. It's not as good as immunity breakers, but it would keep the other classes that don't have one from going obsolete on immunes in epics. Not only AMs, but e.g. Cleric / FvS fire nukers.

    http://dnd.arkalseif.info/feats/comp...880/index.html

    Alternatively they could give AM an enhancement that just converted all elemental damage to Force damage. That would fix the problem of no good Force spells.

  12. #12
    Community Member eightspoons's Avatar
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    I'm waiting with bated breath for an Archmage update (and have been for a few years now). If you're a wizard that wants to be effective in higher difficulty settings, you're effectively pigeon-holed into being a Pale Master for the DCs, self healing and generally higher defence. The Archmage in it's current state simply cannot compete. Pale Masters should be an exception rather than the rule.

    If/when this update does eventually happen, I'd hope it won't be just another shower of DPS, as long as the potential DCs are made competitive with those of Pale Master, but also that some survivability (and not self healing because DnD wizards aren't really supposed to do that) will be added in the form of the sorts of defensive spells that an 'Archmage' in DnD lore is supposed to be able to take advantage of.

    Spells such as Protection from the Elements, Resist Energy and many of the various buffs are almost totally worthless in the current game just because their scaling with difficulty is terrible. Rather than a straight buff to MRR for example, the Archmage needs special situational abilities such as spell turning, physical damage mitigation/limited duration immunity, far more effective dispels and absorption abilities such as Ruby Ray of Reversal and Spell Trap (actual DnD spells).

    Oh, and the force SLAs could be made a bit less iffy.
    Four Cakes on Orien and one Leaf on Thelanis.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by eightspoons View Post
    you're effectively pigeon-holed
    WAI. Every class in the game other than bard is intentionally pigeon-holed by both enhancements and gear availability. The game is designed to produce a certain set of abilities and gear those certain set of abilities so groups function a certain way. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. The only way around this is to play at a lower difficulty.

    Alchemist are pigeon-holed into bombardier.

    Artificer are pigeon-holed into inquisitor.

    Barbarian is pigeon-holed into frenzied.

    Bard can do anything.

    Cleric, FvS, and Druid are all pigeon -oled into also being healers.

    Fighter and paladin can be dps or tanks, but vangaurd sucks for both of them.

    Monk is pigeon-holed into shintao.

    Ranger into tempest.

    Rogue into assassin.

    Sorc into Fire.

    Warlock into SE.

    Wizard into PM.
    Last edited by Tilomere; 01-03-2021 at 04:05 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    WAI. Every class in the game other than bard is intentionally pigeon-holed by both enhancements and gear availability. The game is designed to produce a certain set of abilities and gear those certain set of abilities so groups function a certain way. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. The only way around this is to play at a lower difficulty.

    Alchemist are pigeon-holed into bombardier.

    Artificer are pigeon-holed into inquisitor.

    Barbarian and Druid are both pigeon-holed into frenzied.

    Bard can do anything.

    Cleric, FvS, and Druid are all pigeon holed into also being healers.

    Fighter and paladin can be dps or tanks, but vangaurd sucks for both of them.

    Monk is pigeon-holed into shintao.

    Ranger into tempest.

    Rogue into assassin.

    Sorc into Fire.

    Warlock into SE.

    Wizard into PM.
    Tilos are pingeonholed into unimaginative opinions.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eightspoons View Post
    I'm waiting with bated breath for an Archmage update (and have been for a few years now). If you're a wizard that wants to be effective in higher difficulty settings, you're effectively pigeon-holed into being a Pale Master for the DCs, self healing and generally higher defence. The Archmage in it's current state simply cannot compete. Pale Masters should be an exception rather than the rule.

    If/when this update does eventually happen, I'd hope it won't be just another shower of DPS, as long as the potential DCs are made competitive with those of Pale Master, but also that some survivability (and not self healing because DnD wizards aren't really supposed to do that) will be added in the form of the sorts of defensive spells that an 'Archmage' in DnD lore is supposed to be able to take advantage of.

    Spells such as Protection from the Elements, Resist Energy and many of the various buffs are almost totally worthless in the current game just because their scaling with difficulty is terrible. Rather than a straight buff to MRR for example, the Archmage needs special situational abilities such as spell turning, physical damage mitigation/limited duration immunity, far more effective dispels and absorption abilities such as Ruby Ray of Reversal and Spell Trap (actual DnD spells).

    Oh, and the force SLAs could be made a bit less iffy.
    Same thoughts exactly, I would not even mind if the predetermined evoc SLAs would be split off, as AM should be about School specialization, or at least should reasonably attempt that. Padding DCs and Spell Pen into PM IMO, was a minor mistake, as it will likely force future AMs to also go deep into PM, vica versa. It is relatively impossible now to divorce Wizard from undead forms... quite sad.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Alchemist are pigeon-holed into bombardier.

    Cleric, FvS, and Druid are all pigeon -oled into also being healers.

    Monk is pigeon-holed into shintao.

    Rogue into assassin.

    Sorc into Fire.

    Wizard into PM.
    VC Inqui
    Bear druid
    Shuricannon
    Mechanic/inqui
    IK sorc
    EK

    Also you're ignoring multi class builds

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerpDerply View Post
    Tilos are pingeonholed into unimaginative opinions.
    lol. i'll own up to trying out at least half a dozen "tilo" builds over the past 4 or 5 years. none of them were unimaginative. almost all of them were multi-class. and not one of them conformed to the pigeon list he just rattled off. perhaps he was responding in a specific way, to a specific point, and it takes a certain int score to understand what he was alluding to specifically?

  18. #18
    Bounty Hunter slarden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Ranger into tempest.

    Rogue into assassin.
    you've never seen an 11 rogue/6 ranger/3 bard?
    DC Warlock Reaper Build (U48)
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  19. #19
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    Not gonna rehash other people's refutations, but...

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Barbarian is pigeon-holed into frenzied.
    Unless you've got a supplementary source of healing, in which case Occult Slayer wins out

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Bard can do anything.
    Bards can CC and buff really well. Their melee dps is buoyed up by their solo capabilities and requires 5-6 Barb for competitive DPS. They certainly can't THF, or TWF, or tank. So that's...what, 3.5 roles out of 7?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Monk is pigeon-holed into shintao.
    Henshin is rad right now, so nope. You can't really argue against Shifter Barbarian TWF while arguing for Shintao

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Wizard into PM.
    Curse that 6-AP pidgeon-hole! Maybe for R10 and/or R7+ solo, but for everything else EK is still competitive. And if you're only talking about those difficulties and outside of raids, then you're the one pidgeon-holing classes

  20. #20
    Community Member eightspoons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Well then stop pigeon-holing yourself. WAI. Every class in the game other than bard is intentionally pigeon-holed by both enhancements and gear availability. The game is designed to produce a certain set of abilities and gear those certain set of abilities so groups function a certain way. This has always been the case, and will always be the case. The only way around this is to play at a lower difficulty. You have the power to play at a lower difficulty, and to stop pigeon-holing yourself at any time.

    Alchemist are pigeon-holed into bombardier.

    Artificer are pigeon-holed into inquisitor.

    Barbarian is pigeon-holed into frenzied.

    Bard can do anything.

    Cleric, FvS, and Druid are all pigeon -oled into also being healers.

    Fighter and paladin can be dps or tanks, but vangaurd sucks for both of them.

    Monk is pigeon-holed into shintao.

    Ranger into tempest.

    Rogue into assassin.

    Sorc into Fire.

    Warlock into SE.

    Wizard into PM.
    You quite nicely missed my point entirely there. I don't have to play high difficulty content, but I want to do so. And in order to do so, I have only one truly viable option available to me as I stick to Wizard on my main rather than TR'ing constantly into whatever build/class/race has the most DPS this week.

    I held on to Archmage long after most other players because the DnD lore part of my brain isn't a huge fan of being undead, but then Sharn with it's insane saves and heavy hitters came along and kind of sank the last decrepit remnants of the Archmage ship.

    DDO is a game that is often noted for it's vast range of character customisation options; but this does not always extend to the enhancement trees (particularly for pure builds, as Wizards very often tend to be). So many of them have no notable downside - Fire Sorc, and Alchemists too of course, to use two of your examples (a Fire Elemental being damaged by fire seems so terribly illogical to me, but there we are). At least Pale Masters are almost useless against some things (I'm looking at you again, Sharn, with your constructs). But that tangent belongs in another thread.

    To summarise: variety is good, and having more of it would not be a bad thing!
    Last edited by eightspoons; 01-03-2021 at 03:24 PM.
    Four Cakes on Orien and one Leaf on Thelanis.

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