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  1. #1
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    Default Barlock - how bad an idea is this?

    I'm a long time super casual player, and like experimenting with different builds. I'm gradually edging towards heroic completionist, and want to do a bard life next. Mainly run PUGs.

    I was wondering about a bard / warlock, perhaps 12 / 8 split. Max charisma and sonic power, fey pact and SB, use different tack to get CHA to damage (though will still need to be STR to hit), and run in ES. Basic idea is to melee in a SB mode, a bit of extra damage from the aura, and then blast and HP boosts from ES when it gets busy.

    I totally know that this is not going to be optimal, though they do seem some nice crossovers around use of sonic in both classes.

    Any thoughts? Is it a slightly mad idea, or a really really bad one? Can it be made it work?

  2. #2
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    the split has some good things (two ticking auras with temporary hp are satisfying, charisma synergy), and some bad
    For example, it's pretty feat tight: needs both metas for ES "cleaves" and melee feats; low bab delays melee feats.It also needs some levels for things to fit together. And you can easily end up sucking at two things, melee and ES dps, instead having at least one of these at respectable levels. Gearing for both is also a headache.

    I would consider also dipping some third class. Possible candidates:
    - fighter 3 for stance and feats
    - fvs/clr 1 for trance
    - rogue 2-3 for evasion and traps

    if you have feydark illusionist, you can also get charisma to hit.

    in general, you don't see many of warlock bards running around, ... and well, there's probably a reason for that.

  3. #3
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    It's not the worst idea, but the split isn't ideal.

    Both Bards and Warlocks have a few important features that improve with level. For Bards, it's Warchanter freezes, songs, and spells. For Warlocks, it's Eldritch Blasts (both base and pact dice). You run into a similar issue as most other caster or semi-caster splits, which is that you don't want to give up levels in either class, since both scale well. Bards have good defenses, but Swashbuckling restricts them to light armor while ES has a slight preference for medium, and the Displacement SLA is just a QoL improvement from the Bard and Warlock spells.

    Happily, Bards have an appealing splash through Swashbuckler, which leaves most of your levels for Warlock and gives you a crit boost to make your melee more competitive! With a shallow Bard splash you can get a beefy Warlock melee with semi-viable dps, right?

    Unfortunately, the ES cores are pretty good. You'll lose Celestial spirit, which increases your EB damage by >50% (2s cooldown instead of 3, +3d6). The capstone's +20% HP won't restrict spellcasting like EDF does and there are decent spell and melee power boosts in there too.

    I haven't tried a melee warlock, but I'd imagine they do best in a few related flavors:
    - Pure Warlock With 41 points ES, 21+ Vistani , the remainder in Tainted Scholar for pact dice. Alternatively, 41 Vistani and 31+ ES, depending on tankiness. Vistani's doublestrike and MP compensate for the lack of melee power, and this will end up playing a lot like an EK. Would probably peak in late heroic and early epic; not sure how well it'll perform at cap
    - Warlock 14- / Fighter 3+ / 3 Bard, possibly 11/6/3 if you want to go for Strike With No Thought for Handaxes. Low-hanging critical profile fruit in Kensei and Swash cores will compensate for reduced Warlock blast damage. Stalwart Defender's stance is a great HP boost in heroics, which is where this build will really shine

  4. #4
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    Thanks for the thoughts. Sounds like mostly warlock with 3+ bard (for SB and different tack - i don't have illusionist) might be more viable, if still perhaps too sub-optimal. I had wondered about throwing in a FVS level for the trance, though that felt perhaps too whacky. I hadn't previously clocked that warlock blasts use / need metas, which does make the feats a bit tricky, so can see the fighter potential. Hmm...

    I need a warlock life as well as a bard, so all good. If I do get around to this, I'll post a note on how it plays.

  5. #5
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    Default Bard warlock build

    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofAlba View Post
    Thanks for the thoughts. Sounds like mostly warlock with 3+ bard (for SB and different tack - i don't have illusionist) might be more viable, if still perhaps too sub-optimal. I had wondered about throwing in a FVS level for the trance, though that felt perhaps too whacky. I hadn't previously clocked that warlock blasts use / need metas, which does make the feats a bit tricky, so can see the fighter potential. Hmm...

    I need a warlock life as well as a bard, so all good. If I do get around to this, I'll post a note on how it plays.

    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...rlock-2-rogue)

    Thats the split used for my bard setup, i went 5 lock and 3 fighter as final setup for the +20%hp in stalwart and went t5 into ES for shining through. But either way its a solid setup
    Last edited by john0; 11-01-2020 at 08:01 PM.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpiritofAlba View Post
    I was wondering about a bard / warlock, perhaps 12 / 8 split. Max charisma and sonic power, fey pact and SB, use different tack to get CHA to damage (though will still need to be STR to hit), and run in ES.
    FYI the new Feydark Illusionist tree adds CHA to hit and damage with any weapon, but right now it's only available with the $80 and $130 Feywild pre-orders.
    Retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  7. #7

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    in addition to unbongwah's comment if you purchase the $40 feywild expansion you will be able to have access to feydark illusionist with the reward from the third tier of favor with the summer court. that is once it goes live on the servers. this was confirmed in an interview by Strimtom with the Dev's. so that is still an option for you if you choose.
    Ghallanda Characters: Amastris Queen of Thay - Main Character - Epic and Class completionist with 20+ Racial and Iconic lives as a warlock | Grevok The Maniacal - DC Caster Reaper/Raider "If I walk away from a conversation it is not because I have admitted defeat. It is because I can not properly handle your degree in stupidology." - Anonymous

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    FYI the new Feydark Illusionist tree adds CHA to hit and damage with any weapon, but right now it's only available with the $80 and $130 Feywild pre-orders.
    I believe you only get the CHA modifier when using the conjured shortswords, dont think its to any weapon

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mgrave88 View Post
    I believe you only get the CHA modifier when using the conjured shortswords, dont think its to any weapon
    The conjured shortswords do it automatically, but you can get it for all weapons from the tree itself, through Familiar's Flourish.
    Enthusiasm enthusiast enthusiast.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    FYI the new Feydark Illusionist tree adds CHA to hit and damage with any weapon, but right now it's only available with the $80 and $130 Feywild pre-orders.
    I bought the 40 pack and once you unlock it with favor its ava every life thereafter.
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  11. #11
    Bounty Hunter slarden's Avatar
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    For leveling I would recommend 16 warlock / 3 bard / 1 favored soul.

    Tentacles + greater color spray will be decent at cap even without a full casting spec.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Antheal's Avatar
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    Which tree's Tier 5 enhancements are you thinking about taking? You can only take Tier 5's in a single tree, and you'd need 5 levels of that class to be eligible.
    I wonder what he meant by "Oh no, not again"? Ah well, it's probably nothing!

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