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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    You know what, that's a solid point. I don't think "hard" things should be removed (like the lateral crossing can be frustrating, but it's quite doable with one hand), but that jump is impossible without decent two-hand coordination AFAIK. You shouldn't be forced to zap yourself just for that jump.
    +1 yes just fixing that one spot (and I have been vocal about this before) would be happiness for me.

    I went to a game control when I hurt my wrist long ago, and suddenly found that as leader of the group I could no longer provide a ride to the top.
    On the plus side, my wrist healed up via using game controller for a few months.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Worth noting: the jump puzzle in Deathwyrm is never mandatory - we intentionally made sure that there are always two routes open in that phase, so that parties that never want to do the jumping puzzle are never required to in order to complete the raid.
    I would like to add that you have done a lot to make this raid much more playable thank you.


    I would like you to make the last 90 degree jump into an easy straight jump to the top for the following reasons:


    1) certain equipment and bodies cannot do this jump (it requires critical two handed coordination via mouse lock with an in air jump)

    2) the raid is no longer end game

    3) the raid is no longer farmed for uber loot

    4) the raid is already too long, especially if one is unlucky in the final battle

    5) DDO should be fun

    6) sugar makes the medicine go down

    7) the difficulty of the room is still challenging.

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    (be glad to prove it if wish to discuss)
    Would love more details, yes. I'm not 100% sure which jump is being referenced here, and haven't found a jump in there yet I can't do with just the keyboard.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Would love more details, yes. I'm not 100% sure which jump is being referenced here, and haven't found a jump in there yet I can't do with just the keyboard.
    I could try to make a video on the subject (but that might take some prep time as I don't have a toon ready for that raid).


    Go from bottom.
    Make a few easy jumps.
    Make a few slightly turning jumps.
    Move along the edges upward.
    Come to a very long wide gap jump
    which is typically managed with Snow Slide or Cannith Boots for the big jump
    or is typically managed with a jump to the 2nd poke out block followed by a curving jump to the final area before the top
    (a half orc tend to have a bit more trouble with this one, but it is doable)

    Upon arriving at the final ledge spot, there two choices
    go right and jump up to a block further away from the room exit then jump onward (my success rate to do this is very low)
    hop upon the block right above this final platform the face 90 degrees from the exit, jump and almost immediately do a 90 degree mouse turn in air to hang barely unto the final exit area.


    This 90 degree jump is the one that I am worried about.
    Be aware that for some reason some players find this one easy and I am not sure why (it may be a combination of feather fall or lack thereof/jump skill/haste/lack of armor ect)
    I tend to go with feather fall, over 40 jump, haste (if available) and no armor which causes me to move so fast and high that the head of my typical character bumps into the top of a brick and bounces my toon away from the wall if I try to make a straight jump.
    (I tend not to be a large race such as warforged or half-orc..)



    Edit: I will work on getting you some video or screen shots, I have a level 30 toon which I can flag and try to move thru normal
    Last edited by Silverleafeon; 10-26-2020 at 04:52 PM.

  5. #45
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    How many quests in the game *require* every party member to make a tough jump in order to complete the quest?

    Back in the day we used to make sure there was at least one competent Nintendo player in any party if those types of skills were needed to complete the quest or to make a particular relevant optional.

    Does everybody in The Crucible need to make the swim?

    And yes I remember the days when it was highly advisable to have multiple people swim because the mobs at the end of the swim were tougher than the average bear.

  6. #46

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    Oh, very interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    Upon arriving at the final ledge spot, there two choices
    go right and jump up to a block further away from the room exit then jump onward (my success rate to do this is very low)
    That is, in fact, the intended way to do it - it can be done with as little as 7 Jump and no featherfall, using only the keyboard. It's not easy, but it's also not meant to be easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    hop upon the block right above this final platform the face 90 degrees from the exit, jump and almost immediately do a 90 degree mouse turn in air to hang barely unto the final exit area.
    Interesting. Yes, that one is much more difficult to do with only the keyboard. It's difficult, but possible, to do with only the keyboard - but it's also not the only or intended path.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    (I tend not to be a large race such as warforged or half-orc..)
    Worth noting here, while the size of your race does impact the position of your camera, which may influence the way you tend to time jumps, every race has exactly the same sized physics, from gnomes to half-orcs. I built the jump puzzle using both Halflings and Half-Orcs, just to make sure the camera position wasn't completely blocked, but your race choice doesn't make any difference with regards to your ability to fit through spaces.
    Last edited by Steelstar; 10-26-2020 at 05:16 PM. Reason: pulled off the jump using only the keyboard, 40 jump, no featherfall
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Would love more details, yes. I'm not 100% sure which jump is being referenced here, and haven't found a jump in there yet I can't do with just the keyboard.
    Should be this jump here:

    Youtube link with timestamp.

    Or skip to ~29 seconds in this video:


    I'll see if I can test it later today, but I didn't even know you could go the other way as is apparently the intended solution.

    Every party I've been in (guild or LFM) has used the 90 degree jump; most easily done by using mouselook mode and jumping out before turning towards the wall. The player in the video uses a much shallower turn than is conventionally taught, but it's the same idea.
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    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
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    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Oh, very interesting.
    Glad we could figure it out. Thanks for posting.

    That is, in fact, the intended way to do it - it can be done with as little as 7 Jump and no featherfall, using only the keyboard. It's not easy, but it's also not meant to be easy.
    Wow, ok.
    Interesting.
    I usually overshot the target probably because I have featherfall on.
    I assume you made sure that a toon with haste, featherfall, 40 jump and light armor can make this same jump?
    (Since we cannot get rid of friendly spells or add heavy armor at will.)


    Interesting. Yes, that one is much more difficult to do with only the keyboard. It's difficult, but possible, to do with only the keyboard - but it's also not the only or intended path.
    Good to know, I am not sure that I have the same dex skills with keyboard that you do, will try.
    I do know it is impossible with game pad (but game pad users can swap to keyboard.)

    Worth noting here, while the size of your race does impact the position of your camera, which may influence the way you tend to time jumps, every race has exactly the same sized physics, from gnomes to half-orcs. I built the jump puzzle using both Halflings and Half-Orcs, just to make sure the camera position wasn't completely blocked, but your race choice doesn't make any difference with regards to your ability to fit through spaces.
    Wow.
    Bookmark this.
    Years of thinking the hit boxes were different for different races, down the drain.
    Thanks for posting.




    I am flagged and will try to solo to the jump room and try out stuff.
    Will post more later on...

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Should be this jump here:

    Youtube link with timestamp.

    Or skip to ~29 seconds in this video:


    I'll see if I can test it later today, but I didn't even know you could go the other way as is apparently the intended solution.

    Every party I've been in (guild or LFM) has used the 90 degree jump; most easily done by using mouselook mode and jumping out before turning towards the wall. The player in the video uses a much shallower turn than is conventionally taught, but it's the same idea.
    +1 great video

  10. #50
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    In the past when I lead the shadowdragon raid, I often spend about 15 minutes in the jump room, encouraging and helping several players while the rest of the raid moves onward.
    It is kind of wasteful and makes the raid longer while tying up the raid leader.
    Eventually they give up and go die in the laser.

    It would be nice if there was a mechanic that allowed the group to move on after part of the group succeeded.
    Still working on soloing the raid, and getting to that room.

  11. #51
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    I in there on dragonborn female and when I make the run across the series of block I fall thru.
    Some races do this as I have heard others complain about certain races.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    That is, in fact, the intended way to do it - it can be done with as little as 7 Jump and no featherfall, using only the keyboard. It's not easy, but it's also not meant to be easy.
    In the raid right now.

    Ok, with haste, featherfall, jump of 63 and robes, I am bumping into the block above me when I make the first jump to the right.
    (will try some more to make sure, but 3 attempts blocked)

    This seems to prevent me from making your chosen path, and for some players who had featherfall put on them to make the other jumps (which would be required for dragonborn female since I need featherfall for the wide jump right before it) might make your chosen path impossible for some?

    Have not tried keyboard yet, figure if i cannot use mouselock...

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Worth noting here, while the size of your race does impact the position of your camera, which may influence the way you tend to time jumps, every race has exactly the same sized physics, from gnomes to half-orcs. I built the jump puzzle using both Halflings and Half-Orcs, just to make sure the camera position wasn't completely blocked, but your race choice doesn't make any difference with regards to your ability to fit through spaces.
    Not calling you a fibber here but if this is true why can my gnomes/halflings fit easier on the paths/switchbacks in Coalescence Chamber while I have a much harder time in that quest on a halforc/PDK?
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  14. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    In the raid right now.

    Ok, with haste, featherfall, jump of 63 and robes, I am bumping into the block above me when I make the first jump to the right.
    (will try some more to make sure, but 3 attempts blocked)

    This seems to prevent me from making your chosen path, and for some players who had featherfall put on them to make the other jumps (which would be required for dragonborn female since I need featherfall for the wide jump right before it) might make your chosen path impossible for some?

    Have not tried keyboard yet, figure if i cannot use mouselock...
    If we're looking at the same jump, keep holding forward and you should grab the ledge of the block you were aiming to land on.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  15. #55
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    I made it to the top by jumping against the wall on the first jump then jumping upward on and grapping the top block then turning around and jumping towards the exit.
    Will try with keyboard only, but I have doubts on my skills therein.


    I still think that any raid where the accepted method of completion involves 25% of the group to go die in the laser should be pondered about by you.

  16. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silverleafeon View Post
    I still think that any raid where the accepted method of completion involves 25% of the group to go die in the laser should be pondered about by you.
    Which is, again, why the route isn't ever mandatory.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    If we're looking at the same jump, keep holding forward and you should grab the ledge of the block you were aiming to land on.
    Thanks.
    I have swim of 14, and I needed a slowdown (accomplished by brushing the wall as I jumped.)

  18. #58
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    Default Ice Games

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    all 3 areas.

    ugh
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  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Which is, again, why the route isn't ever mandatory.
    Thanks for posting and thinking about thus.


    I have a rule of thumb for Deathwyrm raid:

    When you enter the portal room:

    "Go right then left and never straight ahead."

    Not sure if that was on purpose?


    I will take Trap over Jump anyday, but I am not a fan of taking a full raid group thru the Maze (although one leader swore by soloing thru for map and having everyone else go thru.)
    People getting lost, time and lag issues in a raid that has plenty of those issues already.

    Even if Jump had a fix I would still say Trap > Jump.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    If we're looking at the same jump, keep holding forward and you should grab the ledge of the block you were aiming to land on.
    +1

    Huge help, thank you.

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