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  1. #401
    Community Member SynalonEtuul's Avatar
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    Just want to counter the very negative voices in this thread to say I really like the direction this expansion seems to be going. The whole point of this expansion was meant to be a horizontal increase in power. If you're already maxed out for one role (tank, DC caster, melee dps etc.), you're not meant to get much more power in that role from this expansion. You should be looking at how to shore up some weaknesses or expand into a secondary role. Very few will use 7-piece sets, true; but very few builds will use any specific number of set pieces. This is because of the vast array of build and itemisation options in the game.

    This expansion is meant to offer flexibility in gearing options, not a new OP set that everyone of a certain archetype will want to go for. It is more for mixing and matching. At this, the loot in this preview will excel. Personally, on my hybrid build, I am salivating at the gear options that will be available. At bottom, the sets and augments just look like great fun!

  2. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by SynalonEtuul View Post
    Just want to counter the very negative voices in this thread to say I really like the direction this expansion seems to be going. The whole point of this expansion was meant to be a horizontal increase in power. If you're already maxed out for one role (tank, DC caster, melee dps etc.), you're not meant to get much more power in that role from this expansion. You should be looking at how to shore up some weaknesses or expand into a secondary role. Very few will use 7-piece sets, true; but very few builds will use any specific number of set pieces. This is because of the vast array of build and itemisation options in the game.

    This expansion is meant to offer flexibility in gearing options, not a new OP set that everyone of a certain archetype will want to go for. It is more for mixing and matching. At this, the loot in this preview will excel. Personally, on my hybrid build, I am salivating at the gear options that will be available. At bottom, the sets and augments just look like great fun!
    The problem is this gear is going backwards not horizontal not flexibility. Too many missing effects, set blockers, and overall useless items to meet the 7 gear slots required for max set bonus.

  3. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by DerpDerply View Post
    those set bonuses have now pretty much taken away any and all incentives to replace my current Sharn setup.
    I'm trying really hard to not simply eclipse all of Sharn's gear. Ideally the set bonuses work alongside Sharn's, instead of replacing them entirely. I don't want the items in Sharn to become worthless by releasing items that are strictly better.

    My goal is to encourage players to consider wearing Feywild + Sharn, Feywild + Ravenloft, or Feywild alone. If you're unable to get a few one-off set bonuses, that's where the Set Augments come in. If you have any suggestions on how to better encourage that, I'm all ears.
    Last edited by Lynnabel; 10-27-2020 at 02:46 PM.
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  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I'm trying really hard to not simply eclipse all of Sharn's gear. Ideally the set bonuses work alongside Sharn's, instead of replacing them entirely. I don't want the items in Sharn to become worthless by releasing items that are strictly better.

    My goal is to encourage players to consider wearing Feywild + Sharn, Feywild + Ravenloft, or Feywild alone. If you're unable to get a few one-off set bonuses, that's where the Set Augments come in. If you have any suggestions on how to better encourage that, I'm all ears.
    Now that we are taking this aproach why dont you upgrade the numbers of the Ravenloft sets to keep up a little better with sharn and Feywild?

  5. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entyri View Post
    Potential idea. The tank set seems decent, not quite as good as current sharn with lgs gearing, but a good alternative option for those without lgs. I dont know enough about caster gearing to comment on the caster set. The melee/ranged dps sets seem to be where most of the disagreement is. What if it gets done something like this:

    Summer
    2: ranged/melee power
    3: doublestrike/doubleshot
    4: fort bypass/helpless amp
    5: Tactics
    6: artifact bonus to stats
    7: Potent effect that justifies a 7 piece gearing commitment (5% damage increase? similar to relentless fury or something?)

    Spring
    2: sneak attack
    3: Threat decrease
    4: Melee/ranged/spell power debuff on hit (like 5 piece shattered device effect)
    5: Melee/ranged power
    6: artifact bonus to stats
    7: potent effect that justifies a 7 piece gearing commitment (% bonus to physical crits like the lgs theme?)

    This way you have a gearset that obsoletes sharn gearing (summer) and a gearing that can be used in addition to sharn or potentially by itself (spring)

    Just an idea.

    Either way, would like to thank the devs, Lynn especially, for all the effort they put in and everything they have to deal with.
    Would this not do what you want it to? A set for feywild alone (Summer), and a set that works with the previous sets (spring).

  6. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1ncewind View Post
    Now that we are taking this aproach why dont you upgrade the numbers of the Ravenloft sets to keep up a little better with sharn and Feywild?
    It's not a bad idea at all - in fact, I'm all for normalizing all items across their MLs - but given the complexity of doing so it would need to happen post-Feywild, if it happens at all.
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  7. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I'm trying really hard to not simply eclipse all of Sharn's gear. Ideally the set bonuses work alongside Sharn's, instead of replacing them entirely. I don't want the items in Sharn to become worthless by releasing items that are strictly better.

    My goal is to encourage players to consider wearing Feywild + Sharn, Feywild + Ravenloft, or Feywild alone. If you're unable to get a few one-off set bonuses, that's where the Set Augments come in. If you have any suggestions on how to better encourage that, I'm all ears.
    Hey Lynnabel,

    I like the Trinket you made, but I simply cannot fit it into my personal gear set. It just doesn't work. as a monk, I have basically been locked into the 3 piece Part of the Fam Sharn set. Its just simply the best with the most generic all around abilities/stats you can get for a monk. There is nothing that says "this is in here, but I'll never use it" in this set. And its only 3 pieces!

    The other conundrum monks will have is Superior Reinforced Fists. This is only avail in 2 items, and one of the is a necklace from RL (which cannot be used with PotF set), so we are basically locked into the Cornerstone champion (which is a great belt!). I see the raid helm gives +1W, but doesn't look like it is viable for monks. My suggestion is add a new belt similar to the Cornerstone Champ with Superior Reinforced Fists, or put it in a spot that will not disrupt the PotF set. Insightful seeker seems to be missing as well. It come on a think strength item (maybe Charisma), but that does not benefit a monk either (or should I say meld well to make me want to play gear tetris). Make that Bracer able to be crafted for the ability, similar to some of the items from Sharn. I wouldn't lock the abilities in, I would give the players a choice to craft which ability they want in the item (like the sunken chains, or the collective sight, etc).

    Just my 2 cents. I hope this helps

    Nico

  8. #408
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    I agree with keeping Sharn relevant. However, I want LGS to be left in the past.
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  9. #409
    Community Member Satyriasys's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's not a bad idea at all - in fact, I'm all for normalizing all items across their MLs - but given the complexity of doing so it would need to happen post-Feywild, if it happens at all.
    Having a giant hold, or disciples of shar/ stormhorns with updated loot would be the best Christmas present ever.

  10. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Entyri View Post
    Would this not do what you want it to? A set for feywild alone (Summer), and a set that works with the previous sets (spring).
    No, get rid of the artifact bonuses to stats. Those are bad!

  11. #411
    Uber Completionist kain741's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I'm trying really hard to not simply eclipse all of Sharn's gear. Ideally the set bonuses work alongside Sharn's, instead of replacing them entirely. I don't want the items in Sharn to become worthless by releasing items that are strictly better.

    My goal is to encourage players to consider wearing Feywild + Sharn, Feywild + Ravenloft, or Feywild alone. If you're unable to get a few one-off set bonuses, that's where the Set Augments come in. If you have any suggestions on how to better encourage that, I'm all ears.
    The problem is that many of the sets aren't even on par with Sharn. You have a greater gear investment for less return. Besides a very niche build, you will not find anyone that will want to do that.
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  12. #412
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    I agree with keeping Sharn relevant. However, I want LGS to be left in the past.
    LGS is a great way for new players to get a lot of useful stuff; +33 skill items are basically free, Affirmation is amazing (although it'll be available coming up looks like), Dust/Ooze/Ash/etc are all excellent debuffs that aren't always obtainable (a lot of equivalent debuffs are melee-only vs LGS which works on-spellcast), Displacement clickies are fantastic, etc.

    Even if LGS set bonuses are being out-dated, I'd still like there to be a reason for vets to run LShroud - so they'll bring new players along. New players very rarely get into raids by themselves, vs joining experienced parties/PUG's who share their knowledge.

    While I'd like to hope vets would bring new players through and pass their mats etc, I'd say it's far more likely for vets to just not run LShroud nearly as frequently (like once/TR for XP probably).
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    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  13. #413
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    A quick case of duplication of effects in a set:

    Winter: cold iron bracers -> +17 Protect
    Winter: direbear belt -> +17 Protect

    direbelt should probably be natural armor instead of protect as it's likely if a character is going for a winter set he'll wear both items.

  14. #414
    2015 DDO Players Council
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    LGS is a great way for new players to get a lot of useful stuff; +33 skill items are basically free, Affirmation is amazing (although it'll be available coming up looks like), Dust/Ooze/Ash/etc are all excellent debuffs that aren't always obtainable (a lot of equivalent debuffs are melee-only vs LGS which works on-spellcast), Displacement clickies are fantastic, etc.

    Even if LGS set bonuses are being out-dated, I'd still like there to be a reason for vets to run LShroud - so they'll bring new players along. New players very rarely get into raids by themselves, vs joining experienced parties/PUG's who share their knowledge.

    While I'd like to hope vets would bring new players through and pass their mats etc, I'd say it's far more likely for vets to just not run LShroud nearly as frequently (like once/TR for XP probably).
    Yes, shroud will have other things that may be attractive, as you've mentioned. But things that have become obligatory, like debuffs and defenses, should not be exclusive to a raid that is as old and under level in terms of gear as Lshroud.

    If you want to make the new player argument, then it should be universally applicable to all of the raids - not just Lshroud. We're talking about the relevance of gear in the upcoming endgame expansion here.
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  15. #415
    Community Member A-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I'm trying really hard to not simply eclipse all of Sharn's gear. Ideally the set bonuses work alongside Sharn's, instead of replacing them entirely. I don't want the items in Sharn to become worthless by releasing items that are strictly better.

    My goal is to encourage players to consider wearing Feywild + Sharn, Feywild + Ravenloft, or Feywild alone. If you're unable to get a few one-off set bonuses, that's where the Set Augments come in. If you have any suggestions on how to better encourage that, I'm all ears.
    But you still want sharn + lgs to be "the best", as per your previous posts? Or you open to opening up sharn + faywild to replace or at least equal sharn + lgs?

    if so, you can see my previous math posts on what to do with the caster sets. 'cause right now you're only opening up for sharn + 4x winter for all builds (set-bonus wise) or 3x sharn +4x lgs. And that isn't diversity.
    Formerly known as Absolute-Omniscience, co-creator of the old DPS calc.

  16. #416
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Yes, shroud will have other things that may be attractive, as you've mentioned. But things that have become obligatory, like debuffs and defenses, should not be exclusive to a raid that is as old and under level in terms of gear as Lshroud.

    If you want to make the new player argument, then it should be universally applicable to all of the raids - not just Lshroud. We're talking about the relevance of gear in the upcoming endgame expansion here.
    True, and there's the start of that with the Affirmation club in this loot set. I just don't want it all in one go (as that would perpetuate the issue in like 5 years when LGS 2.0 is obsolete), and until most of the obligatory LGS stuff can be found elsewhere I'm not sure it's time for LGS to die.

    I'd certainly be happier if older raids had more modern-day-relevant gear but that'd be asking for significant buffs to a lot of stuff, vs just not releasing LGS 2.0 (better/faster/stronger).

    I'd rather only some raid loot being obsolete vs them all, if that's fair. I'd like to see more unique bonuses on raid loot as well as more reasons to run older stuff, but a lot of people are done with old stuff and that's also a valid viewpoint.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  17. #417
    Community Member A-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cetus View Post
    Yes, shroud will have other things that may be attractive, as you've mentioned. But things that have become obligatory, like debuffs and defenses, should not be exclusive to a raid that is as old and under level in terms of gear as Lshroud.

    If you want to make the new player argument, then it should be universally applicable to all of the raids - not just Lshroud. We're talking about the relevance of gear in the upcoming endgame expansion here.
    Couldn't agree more.
    It's stupid that a caster's bis gear requires 6 items from a 5 year old raid (4 items, 2 weapons (1 to swap into)).
    It's stupid that tanks bis gear require 5 items from a 5 year old raid
    Formerly known as Absolute-Omniscience, co-creator of the old DPS calc.

  18. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-O View Post
    Couldn't agree more.
    It's stupid that a caster's bis gear requires 6 items from a 5 year old raid (4 items, 2 weapons (1 to swap into)).
    It's stupid that tanks bis gear require 5 items from a 5 year old raid
    Not saying this to be contrary, but whenever I see players wax poetic about the ddo days of olde, they make a point to emphasize the longevity of gear. Is there a point where gear longevity hurts, you think?
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  19. #419
    Community Member Spawawa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I'm trying really hard to not simply eclipse all of Sharn's gear. Ideally the set bonuses work alongside Sharn's, instead of replacing them entirely. I don't want the items in Sharn to become worthless by releasing items that are strictly better.

    My goal is to encourage players to consider wearing Feywild + Sharn, Feywild + Ravenloft, or Feywild alone. If you're unable to get a few one-off set bonuses, that's where the Set Augments come in. If you have any suggestions on how to better encourage that, I'm all ears.
    I'd really love to see more augment sets if that's possible. Currently for casters you can get the entirety of the sharn set from augments allowing for in theory good flexibility until you realize Feywild is 7 slots down the drain, the sharn set is well...redundant and you can't use LGS for augment sets . A 5% Universal crit augment set and a 15% critical multiplier augment set (maybe make that one more than 3 slots if that's possible and too op) would go a long way in incentivizing us to wear gear from everywhere and Feywild/LGS would still be less slots for those effects.

    On a completely different and highly random note, if you really want LGS to still be a thing could we pleeeeeeaaase get the ability to craft orbs that would be identical to weapons in functionally? Pretty please?
    Helthen from Orien

  20. #420
    Community Member A-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Not saying this to be contrary, but whenever I see players wax poetic about the ddo days of olde, they make a point to emphasize the longevity of gear. Is there a point where gear longevity hurts, you think?
    I love the longevity. But I don't want entire gear sets worth of longevity. 1 piece from a raid here and there. Sure. And that'll always be the case for a caster, e.g. with the crit dmg lgs item. But lockign in 4 out of 12 item slots in a 5 year old raid is a bit much.
    Plus, the weapons for affirmation, and dust, ooze, etc. will always be used as well.

    E.g. in the "good old days", you used 1-2 items from von (sword + boots), 1 item from titan (ring). the rest were vod/shroud/other endgame raids. So really, you only used 2-3 slots from old raids. The rest were "new" additions.


    EDIT: and besides, with my suggestion(s), you won't make LGS obsolete, you'll just make feywild comparable on some aspects. because right now, sharn + lgs will have more hp, and more dmg, than sharn + feywild. And I personally think sharn + 4 piece caster feywild should do more dmg than sharn + lgs.
    Last edited by A-O; 10-27-2020 at 04:37 PM.
    Formerly known as Absolute-Omniscience, co-creator of the old DPS calc.

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