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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Well, let's shoot for that, then. At least 4 of the Summer items just need to be cool and not in Gloves or Necklace slots. Sounds like a clearable goalpost to me.
    First of all I want to say I actually agree with the design principles - there will be a decent power bump even without any new gear thanks to the new augments. I like that you are not obsoleting gear but the way you have designed the Feywild set boni you are practically forcing us to stay with Sharn gear.

    It is not going to be possible to create 7 piece feywild sets that work for different builds when you only have 14 items in a set without some super flexible crafting system.

    We should not be waiting until the 5th set piece to get something essential for our intended role as the opportunity cost is too high. I think you would be better off putting the important effects lower down so then we have these choices

    Sharn (3) + augment (3) + augment (3)
    Season (3/4) + Augment (3) + augment (3)
    Sharn (3) +Season (3/4) + augment (3) - hybrids or those dps that want to add some survivability at the cost of dps
    Season (7) + augment (3) - this will require a redesign of existing gear and probably only for a small subset of builds
    Season (3/4) + season (3/4) +augment (3) supports hybrid roles as well as small dps bump if for example Spring 3pc = Ravenloft Summer 3pc = Sharn

    Right now the only right answer is
    Sharn (3) + augment (3) + augment (3)
    I guess at a push hybrids could go Sharn (3) Season (7) but will depend on a loot redesign as there is very little flexibility in this setup

    The way I am feeling right now is my current gear does not change and I just add the new augments.

    Alternatively increase the number of items in a set to more like 21 at least then you have a chance of covering the essential stats for a decent selection of builds
    Last edited by Caarb; 10-22-2020 at 07:39 PM.

  2. #202
    Community Member DrawingGuy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I was just going to swap the Changestone and Signet of the Solstice and call it even, which would put the Signet in Spring without requiring me to do any treasure table work.
    I'm more than happy to accept what's easiest for you, and Spring is a much more compatible set. Thanks!
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caarb View Post
    you are practically forcing us to stay with Sharn gear.


    Pretty strange that this looks true with an entire new expansion... I'm not sure we should be glad about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    First, Meat-Head is exactly correct...

  4. #204
    Community Member Kelledren's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Quickly floating this as a set bonus draft:



    Gray is artifact bonus type, blue is Legendary bonus type (LGS)
    What about doing something crazy like taking the doublestrike/double shot from Spring and Summer, and making it Legendary (5%?), and moving it them to tier 4 WITH 3% dodge cap and +5 tactics. Then in Summer tier 6 give +4 str and dex, and spring Tier 6 make +3 to all stats (seems Monkish). If you cannot combine two effects into one tier- then I apologize for this bad idea.

  5. #205
    Community Member Meat-Head's Avatar
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    Default One more thing

    There are no mauls in this expansion. Can we haj a maul plox? Preferably a raid maul. But something is better than nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkrok View Post
    First, Meat-Head is exactly correct...

  6. #206
    Community Member Baahb3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meat-Head View Post
    That is a LOT of slots to not get much better than Current Sharn. Seems Weird.
    I don't know how many times Lynnabel has to say it, this is not meant to be an upgrade to Sharn, this is meant to add options to Sharn.

    Re-read the OP if you have to:

    Loot Fact 1: Items in Feywild will be using the same internal scaling that items in Sharn do. You will not experience a numerical jump up in power going from Sharn -> Feywild loot (not directly, at least).
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. -Seneca the Elder
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  7. #207

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I'd like to politely point out that the methods you call "championing" are not remotely helpful and I'd drastically prefer literally any other type of feedback.
    Yep tried that. it was like fighting wraiths without a ghost touch weapon. i was rolling zeros. if you dont like my feedback then go back to ignoring it, that's all I can politely suggest.
    but the posts will show that i had been very vocal about the gear and the autumn set in particular and it wasnt until i got loud that you took pause to considered posting anything about changing items in the set. so there's that.

    With all due respect, I feel this conversation is not going anywhere. We’re talking ourselves in circles and it’s clear that we are not equipped to agree with one another. anyways i got warlocking to do. Peace
    Ghallanda Characters: Amastris Queen of Thay - Main Character - Epic and Class completionist with 17+ Racial and Iconic lives as a warlock | Grevok The Maniacal - Tanklock Alt
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  8. #208
    Community Member straytext's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meat-Head View Post
    There are no mauls in this expansion. Can we haj a maul plox? Preferably a raid maul. But something is better than nothing.
    Had to log in to double check. There is a maul. It's not a raid maul but there is one with the rest of the Feybane weapons. Both Heroic and Legendary versions.

  9. #209
    Community Member Baahb3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amastris View Post
    Yep tried that.
    I have read most of this thread and I see that you have outlined why the current gear does not work for your casters or for super high end players playing late reapers. What I think we all need to realize is that not every update/gear release is meant for you. It might not be a good fit for you, your play style or the content you run.

    If this was set forth to be an 'upgrade gear' release, I think your arguments hold more weight, but that was not laid forth at the beginning of this thread. I am also not saying that all the gear is perfect either, no release's list is.

    But the flexibility and options outside of Shan give players a way to close the gap between the LGS 5+ slot players and themselves. That is a good thing.

    Another thought, what if someone did not buy Sharn? Now they have an option in a different expansion to get the same level gear.

    I am not cutting your effort, I actually applaud your fervor for this game, I am just trying to bring you back from the ledge.
    Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity. -Seneca the Elder
    Iryklaunavan, Karaskkesir, Desideratum, Gregorii, Jhasmyne
    Ubique Eo, Invenio me esse ducem hominium.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baahb3 View Post
    I don't know how many times Lynnabel has to say it, this is not meant to be an upgrade to Sharn, this is meant to add options to Sharn.

    Re-read the OP if you have to:

    Loot Fact 1: Items in Feywild will be using the same internal scaling that items in Sharn do. You will not experience a numerical jump up in power going from Sharn -> Feywild loot (not directly, at least).
    The worst thing about this preview is that I feel Lyn and SSG as a whole are going to be scared off from ever releasing another expansion that doesn't have massive powercreep, with all the complaining about 'but it's not better than a optimized sharn + LGS set for my specific build" I'm afraid they're going to pendulum back in the other direction and we're going to be seeing +40 stats on items within 3 years.

    All I can say is I hope you guys don't get discouraged, I really love the design goals of this expansion!

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baahb3 View Post
    I don't know how many times Lynnabel has to say it, this is not meant to be an upgrade to Sharn, this is meant to add options to Sharn.
    But it doesn’t. Why would anyone use 7 slots to regain a bonus they had with 3? They wouldn’t unless the lower level set boni were compelling (they aren’t) or the gear is numerically superior (it isn’t). The design goal is right but the implementation only gives the illusion of choice.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baahb3 View Post
    I have read most of this thread and I see that you have outlined why the current gear does not work for your casters or for super high end players playing late reapers. What I think we all need to realize is that not every update/gear release is meant for you. It might not be a good fit for you, your play style or the content you run.

    If this was set forth to be an 'upgrade gear' release, I think your arguments hold more weight, but that was not laid forth at the beginning of this thread. I am also not saying that all the gear is perfect either, no release's list is.

    But the flexibility and options outside of Shan give players a way to close the gap between the LGS 5+ slot players and themselves. That is a good thing.

    Another thought, what if someone did not buy Sharn? Now they have an option in a different expansion to get the same level gear.

    I am not cutting your effort, I actually applaud your fervor for this game, I am just trying to bring you back from the ledge.
    I agree fully.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caarb View Post
    But it doesn’t. Why would anyone use 7 slots to regain a bonus they had with 3? They wouldn’t unless the lower level set boni were compelling (they aren’t) or the gear is numerically superior (it isn’t). The design goal is right but the implementation only gives the illusion of choice.
    The problem is that if they add all the must have stats from sharn into the lower set bonuses it means you can't mix and match sharn + feywild because everything will overlap.

    Right now It's looking like Sharn set + a secondary feywild set that doesn't overlap with their sharn gear is going to be the way most people gear, or going full 7 piece feywild for people who don't have a full LGS set.

    I actually like the overall set design with some minor tweaking, (does each tier need to only have 1 effect, can we add STR/DEX to the melee sets and CON to all the sets)?
    Last edited by FlavoredSoul; 10-22-2020 at 09:01 PM.

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    The worst thing about this preview is that I feel Lyn and SSG as a whole are going to be scared off from ever releasing another expansion that doesn't have massive powercreep, with all the complaining about 'but it's not better than a optimized sharn + LGS set for my specific build" I'm afraid they're going to pendulum back in the other direction and we're going to be seeing +40 stats on items within 3 years.

    All I can say is I hope you guys don't get discouraged, I really love the design goals of this expansion!
    Pshaw, implying we ever change our minds about anything :P

    Don't quote me on this but I have also been tinkering on a super secret thing that not even the PC knows about, too, and it has the potential to truly rock your socks.
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

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  14. #214
    Community Member straytext's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Aight after staring into space for like 20 minutes here's the first swap I'm thinking of:

    Green Dragonscale Tasset in Spring becomes Black Dragonscale Tasset and swaps effects with the Black Dragonscale Bracers (which then become Green Dragonscale Bracers) in Winter (edit: whoops I meant Fall).
    Me likey. Though, that of course doubles up on the Magical efficiency from the Leaves helm in autumn. And, being one of those awful casters that also likes to hit things I quite fancy the helm. As the bracers nee' tasset are defensive what with the resistances and vitality might I suggest some kind of fort (insightful/quality/whatever) in place of the power store? Barring that rather mundane suggestion, some other clever effect/proc like, when hit you gain X temp spell points?

    So, the level 5 version gets regular old Fort. The level 29 version gets insightful/quality Fort.

    OR

    Level 5 gets 10 temp sp for 1 min
    Level 29 gets some bigger number temp sp for 5 min

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Pshaw, implying we ever change our minds about anything :P

    Don't quote me on this but I have also been tinkering on a super secret thing that not even the PC knows about, too, and it has the potential to truly rock your socks.
    I am excited for the super secret thing.

    Hopefully it is slightly less super secret than the Dull dagger.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by straytext View Post
    Me likey. Though, that of course doubles up on the Magical efficiency from the Leaves helm in autumn. And, being one of those awful casters that also likes to hit things I quite fancy the helm. As the bracers nee' tasset are defensive what with the resistances and vitality might I suggest some kind of fort (insightful/quality/whatever) in place of the power store? Barring that rather mundane suggestion, some other clever effect/proc like, when hit you gain X temp spell points?

    So, the level 5 version gets regular old Fort. The level 29 version gets insightful/quality Fort.

    OR

    Level 5 gets 10 temp sp for 1 min
    Level 29 gets some bigger number temp sp for 5 min
    Power Store is pretty Green Dragon-y, though. I'd rather change the helm.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    I am excited for the super secret thing.

    Hopefully it is slightly less super secret than the Dull dagger.
    lol it's even secret-y-er
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  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    I agree fully.



    The problem is that if they add all the must have stats from sharn into the lower set bonuses it means you can't mix and match sharn + feywild because everything will overlap.

    Right now It's looking like Sharn set + a secondary feywild set that doesn't overlap with their sharn gear is going to be the way most people gear, or going full 7 piece feywild for people who don't have a full LGS set.

    I actually like the overall set design with some minor tweaking, (does each tier need to only have 1 effect, can we add STR/DEX to the melee sets and CON to all the sets)?
    I don’t agree and I’ve already addressed the point. IMO the most likely setup will be Sharn + augment sets and most will ignore feywild sets completely.

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Power Store is pretty Green Dragon-y, though. I'd rather change the helm.
    I agree, thematically Green Dragon scale has been associated with Power Store since MOTU.

  19. #219
    Community Member Akoriv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baahb3 View Post
    I have read most of this thread and I see that you have outlined why the current gear does not work for your casters or for super high end players playing late reapers. What I think we all need to realize is that not every update/gear release is meant for you. It might not be a good fit for you, your play style or the content you run.

    If this was set forth to be an 'upgrade gear' release, I think your arguments hold more weight, but that was not laid forth at the beginning of this thread. I am also not saying that all the gear is perfect either, no release's list is.

    But the flexibility and options outside of Shan give players a way to close the gap between the LGS 5+ slot players and themselves. That is a good thing.

    Another thought, what if someone did not buy Sharn? Now they have an option in a different expansion to get the same level gear.

    I am not cutting your effort, I actually applaud your fervor for this game, I am just trying to bring you back from the ledge.
    This gear won't work for something around 90% of the builds out there, and that has nothing to with high end reaper.
    Only a handful of Class / Enhancement tree combinations are going to be able to fit the 7 piece gear set.
    Most will probably have 3 at most or just a couple single items from different set.
    Almost no one will be seeing the full 7 piece set bonuses from this.

    As far as melee goes, there is too much only just above mediocre for 1 class / tree in the base items, and it's more likely than not that niche class / tree will not even be trying to equip the set with it's niche item. They Monk trinket is the only item that is really top tier melee item, and whether Lynnabel has it in spring or summer too much of the gear sucks for a monk to use either set as 7 piece.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akoriv View Post
    This gear won't work for something around 90% of the builds out there, and that has nothing to with high end reaper.
    Only a handful of Class / Enhancement tree combinations are going to be able to fit the 7 piece gear set.
    Most will probably have 3 at most or just a couple single items from different set.
    Almost no one will be seeing the full 7 piece set bonuses from this.

    As far as melee goes, there is too much only just above mediocre for 1 class / tree in the base items, and it's more likely than not that niche class / tree will not even be trying to equip the set with it's niche item. They Monk trinket is the only item that is really top tier melee item, and whether Lynnabel has it in spring or summer too much of the gear sucks for a monk to use either set as 7 piece.
    A lot of people will stick with Sharn+LGS and there isn't anything wrong with that.

    Not saying this can't be improved, but if a lot of builds stay with sharn era gear that's fine.

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