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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Precisely, this. It hasn't always been clear whether potions are (can be used on others) or (can be used while raging), and inevitably there are people who want potions that work one way to work the other way, and it's both unclear and prone to breaking. Reversing the recent changes does not fix that, just re-introduces the reasons it got changed in the first place. It's better for some and worse for others, when the best thing to do would be to fix the actual problem.

    We have plans to adjust things so that they're consistent and clear, but they're not small plans, so we don't have a timetable to announce for it at this time - Just know that it's known and on our radar.
    While you're at it...can you consolidate vendor pots so that LResto cures and guards against all the other vendor-pot cureable statuses too?

    Really no reason to tax inventory and hot bar space for all the various cure pots, at this point.

  2. #42
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    LrdSlvrhnd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Twilight23 View Post
    Thanks for the update.

    I don't suppose you can do an interim fix to just give a dialog option or something to allow completing the optional quest objectives for "cast X spell on NPC" where using the potion on them used to work? It's really not a huge deal (only remember I think 2 quests with this) but it was *REALLY* annoying when I first encountered it (it used to work and then suddenly no longer worked).
    Potential stopgap: Two versions of pots. "Remove Curse (Self)" and "Remove Curse (Non-Raged)" - the first can only be used on yourself, but can be used while raged; the second can only be used while not raged, but *can* be used on others. Or "(Barbarian)" and "(Non-Barbarian)".
    "Ignorance killed the cat, sir; curiosity was framed."
    Tripoint, C.J. Cherryh

  3. #43
    Community Member Valerianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Precisely, this. It hasn't always been clear whether potions are (can be used on others) or (can be used while raging), and inevitably there are people who want potions that work one way to work the other way, and it's both unclear and prone to breaking. Reversing the recent changes does not fix that, just re-introduces the reasons it got changed in the first place. It's better for some and worse for others, when the best thing to do would be to fix the actual problem.

    We have plans to adjust things so that they're consistent and clear, but they're not small plans, so we don't have a timetable to announce for it at this time - Just know that it's known and on our radar.

    i'm sorry, respectfully, but it's a fact that you broke something that was "somehow" working, you meddled with something that was always messy and always gave trouble. but was somehow working with the difference between guild pots\regular pots. this is why we players don't understand why you did even touched the matter. we understand even less why are you saying that there is no eta for a fix. again, respectfully, to us it makes no sense at all. really.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Precisely, this. It hasn't always been clear whether potions are (can be used on others) or (can be used while raging), and inevitably there are people who want potions that work one way to work the other way, and it's both unclear and prone to breaking.
    I get it, everything you said totally makes sense, it's completely reasonable, and I appreciate your feedback. But regardless of whether the intent needs to be one way or the other, to SIGNIFICANTLY reduce confusion, can we at least get the "Target:" lines updated to reflect the actual functionality? I mean, that is the whole purpose of that line of text.

    Personally, I think having both a usable-while-raged pot and not-usable-while-raged pot could be a good thing. But either way you cut it, they should be labeled appropriately so we know what the heck is going on.

  5. #45
    Community Member Artos_Fabril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Precisely, this. It hasn't always been clear whether potions are (can be used on others) or (can be used while raging), and inevitably there are people who want potions that work one way to work the other way, and it's both unclear and prone to breaking. Reversing the recent changes does not fix that, just re-introduces the reasons it got changed in the first place. It's better for some and worse for others, when the best thing to do would be to fix the actual problem.

    We have plans to adjust things so that they're consistent and clear, but they're not small plans, so we don't have a timetable to announce for it at this time - Just know that it's known and on our radar.
    Quote Originally Posted by Artos_Fabril View Post
    We can't just give everyone an innate skill for "administer potion" that can't be used while raging? Copy the code from the old artificer spells that required the potion in inventory as reagent, with a range of 1-5meters (whatever "touch" range is in set to).
    Unless there's some reason this can't be implemented, I propose this is a much more elegant fix than most of the recent attempts to fix longstanding issues.
    Last edited by Artos_Fabril; 05-11-2021 at 04:58 PM.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    It hasn't always been clear whether potions are (can be used on others) or (can be used while raging), and inevitably there are people who want potions that work one way to work the other way
    Confusion is not great. Long term fixes are great. However:
    Quote Originally Posted by Steelstar View Post
    Reversing the recent changes does not fix that, just re-introduces the reasons it got changed in the first place. It's better for some and worse for others, when the best thing to do would be to fix the actual problem.
    No. What you seem to be missing is that, despite the potential for confusion, we had two options. Someone who bothered to learn the difference could get the type of potion they wanted. The recent changes made the problem much, much worse, because it went from, "potential confusion between 2 options" to "there is no 2nd option". You simply removed a key feature of certain types of potions. Fewer options available is strictly worse. Undoing the recent changes is a better interim state until your long-term fix than the bad, bad situation we have right now.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by LrdSlvrhnd View Post
    Potential stopgap: Two versions of pots. "Remove Curse (Self)" and "Remove Curse (Non-Raged)" - the first can only be used on yourself, but can be used while raged; the second can only be used while not raged, but *can* be used on others. Or "(Barbarian)" and "(Non-Barbarian)".
    That's a great idea. Of course, other than the names, that is exactly what we had before the recent changes. Having both those two options is what the ill-advised changes removed.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak01 View Post
    Confusion is not great. Long term fixes are great. However:No. What you seem to be missing is that, despite the potential for confusion, we had two options. Someone who bothered to learn the difference could get the type of potion they wanted. The recent changes made the problem much, much worse, because it went from, "potential confusion between 2 options" to "there is no 2nd option". You simply removed a key feature of certain types of potions. Fewer options available is strictly worse. Undoing the recent changes is a better interim state until your long-term fix than the bad, bad situation we have right now.
    I understand your line of thinking, and haven't missed it at all. (I don't like the current configuration either, and understand the problems with it). However, the fact remains that while you (and others in this thread) have figured out how to tell the difference between these two unclear kinds of things, many players have not, which drove this initial change. (If it were a small number of players, we'd have no issue changing it back, but it factually isn't.) We understand you don't like the current configuration; it's going to stick around until we can make the larger change, so that we can fix both your issue and the issue that prompted the initial change.
    We don't only build for the builds that exist.
    We don't only build for the builds that are good right now.

    The fact that some changes are necessary is not diminished by the fact that other necessary changes have not happened yet.

  9. #49
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kpak01 View Post
    That's a great idea. Of course, other than the names, that is exactly what we had before the recent changes. Having both those two options is what the ill-advised changes removed.
    What about an special Barbarian vendor who exclusively sells these things - and nothing else ?
    This would give Barbarians what they need, and avoid confusion, because non-Barbarians would be probably less likely to buy here ...
    "You are a Tiefling. And a Cleric, with the Domain of the Sun. Doesn't that contradict each other ?" "No, all my friends are playing evil. I found that so boring that I decided to be on the good side. And, besides, Sun and Fire, where is the difference, really ?"

  10. #50
    Community Member DYWYPI's Avatar
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    Life felt much more pleasant when you could help other members of your party that were in difficulty via a Potions' funnel for application to afflicted friends. It is a kingly act to assist the fallen.

    There is a strong case for undoing the potion changes in U47. I think most people understand the difference between "Target: Self and, or Friend"? Perhaps more care should have been made with clarifying the wording in-game U47, instead of just altering functionally.


    And the verse is ringing out like a curse.

    Take the above screenshot (as taken today), it clearly says you can target 'Self' or 'Friend' although I believe that 'text' hasn't been true since: [Update: 47]. That's the type of thing that confuses people; when the in-game 'text description' discrepancy is possibly misleading or poorly worded. Perhaps a 'disclaimer' on the bottom of the bottle should be added, e.g. can(not) be used whilst raging, etc.

    There already were two types of potions that functioned differently for good reason. Certainly some raging can be cancelled, i.e. dismissed by the player at will - if they so desire to quaff none rage compatible potions. The magical funnel application range might be a little unrealistic and possibly should be 'touch range'; but drinking potions when raging, without spilling any of it is also possibly as far-fetched.
    Last edited by DYWYPI; 05-14-2021 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Grammar.

  11. #51
    Community Member Gregen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DYWYPI View Post
    There is a strong case for undoing the potion changes in U47.
    I agree with this. I think it would be worth it to put the funnels back in order while dual function is figured out.

    But also, what are the chances of being able to cast from scrolls directly? As in, not have to equip them and instead UMD check/cast immediately when using a hotkey. I've switched to using scrolls since potions no longer work the way I've always used some of them, but I really dislike how slow they are in comparison. Having to swap to a scroll, cast, then swap back to weapon feels odd to me. If scrolls functioned immediately, I wouldn't care about friendly use for potions anymore. Is there any possibility for this or are there too great of issues with it?

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