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  1. #21
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Prelimnary Reaper 8 Incoporeal 50% Data

    Incoporeal 50% (Reborn in Light), Dodge 8%
    Attacks 122, Incoporeal 19, 5 misses (which count as successful hits, these are included with the Attacks), 8 dodges (which don't count and already removed from the Attacks total, original attack number is 130)

    So far this gives us around ~15% for Incorporeal and around 6% for Dodge. Dodge looks OK, but Incorporeal looks like there might be a cap similar to Concealment.

    J1NG

    :: edit ::

    Test 2

    Incoporeal 50% (Reborn in Light), Dodge 8%
    Attacks 120, Incoporeal 22, 7 misses (which count as successful hits, these are included with the Attacks), 14 dodges (which don't count and already removed from the Attacks total, original attack number is 134)

    So this gives around ~18% for Incorporeal and around 11% for Dodge, a bit wild of a swing, 3% both ways.

    Total

    Incoporeal 50% (Reborn in Light), Dodge 8%
    Attacks 242, Incorporeal 41, 12 misses, 22 dodges

    Giving around ~17% Incorporeal and ~9% for Dodge. Still looks close to what I proposed the numbers would be if the debuff continues. But it's looking fairly close to there being a cap for Incorporeal as well for the debuff (at 35% Reduction), similar to the cap for Concealment debuff (which is only 30% as well, so there's some favortism going on around there).

    J1NG
    Last edited by J1NG; 11-18-2020 at 09:51 PM. Reason: added further data
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  2. #22
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    So, with current test results, I would update and revise my original proposal to the following instead:

    Concealment (Blur, Displace, etc)
    Is reduced by a flat 5% on entering Reaper Difficulty, +5% per Reaper Skull, so Reaper 1 gets 10% flat concealment bypass. Reaper 2 gets 15% flat concealment bypass, etc.
    So if you have anything equal or less than 10% Concealment, you basically have nothing on entering Reaper 1.
    * new *There is a cap of 30% reduction, meaning by Reaper 5, you will not be debuffed further.

    In short:
    Dusk (10%) is dead on Reaper 1, you basically have 0%
    Blur (20%) is dead on Reaper 3, you basically have 0%
    Lesser Displacement (25%) is dead on Reaper 4, you basically have 0%
    Displacement (50%) is only 20% viable from Reaper 5 onwards.

    Incorporeal
    Is reduced by 5% per Reaper Skull. So by the time you reach Reaper 5, 25% Incorporeal is worthless.
    * new *There is a cap of 35% reduction, meaning by Reaper 7, you will not be debuffed further.

    In short:
    Wraith Form (10% before buffs) is dead on Reaper 2, you basically have 0%
    Wraith Form (15% with Enhanced form) is dead on Reaper 3, you basically have 0%
    Wraith Form (20% with Core enhancement) is dead on Reaper 4, you basically have 0%
    Wraith Form, Shadow Form, Shadow Veil, etc (25% Incorporeal) is dead on Reaper 5, you basically have 0%
    Reborn in Light (50%) is only 15% viable from Reaper 7 onwards.

    Dodge
    Is not reduced on Reaper 1 through 10.

    Again, this doesn't suggest Dodge needs nerfing, instead, it highlights the silliness of the debuff on players other avoidance defences and they need to be reduced instead.

    These current numbers have high implications for gear and build designs for players running into mid Reaper difficulties, whereby if you are ranged and can kite or AOE for massive damage, you can avoid grabbing these defences entirely, especially Incorporeal. Whilst Melee, can actually forgo certain defences and items completely because at this point with these debuff numbers, they will basically do nothing by a low Reaper Skull difficulty.

    For example, the typical high Incorporeal defence rating is around 25%, some can hit 30%, maybe even 35%, not sure (Not ran those numbers). But lets look at these capped debuff numbers. Incorporeal basically craps on anyone who uses any form of Incorporeal for defence at all by Reaper 5. You basically have 0%. Wraith form Undead Palemasters may have access to Displace, but not all Shadowdancer Shadow form melee may have that same luxury. Any Ghostly or gear with Incorporeal defences are also pointless by the same extension and can be dropped by Reaper 2 or Reaper 3 (since typically items only give 10% or 15%). So entire lines of gear has been invalidated by Reaper 2/3.

    This means that the Devs are actually REQUIRING players to use Displace once they hit Reaper 5+ but have NOT told us to do so. ESPECIALLY the Melee. Perma Blur items are basically worthless by Reaper 3 and if you want to run Reaper 3, Dance of Clouds (Blur buff from Monks) are basically worthless and not worth spending the Ki over.

    By Reaper 5 for Concealment in comparison, this is a 30% (5% for Reaper, 5 x 5 Skulls difficulty 5% = 25%, so 30% reduction) reduction. Meaning those who can displace, still get 20% Concealment bonus, but if this is the case. Since clouds are not impacted, then if the cloud offers 20% Concealment to the party inside it anyway, what's the point of needing to cast Displacement at all? Just have your caster cast a cloud on you instead. You save on SP and resources and gearing requirements.

    Yeah, REALLY good design for Reaper there Devs... >.>

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  3. #23

    Default Wow, jesus christ!

    Holy mother...

    These results are incredibly disturbing considering how much effort and time I spent grinding LGS mats to make x5 oppo/etheral set hoping to benefit from extra incorporeal avoidance. I only have 19% (!!!) incorp and that's with a stacking GHOSTLY item.

    DEVS!

    Do you not understand how much incorp a build can get? 25% is MAX on just 2 types of builds!

    Why bother supporting Incorporeal items, enhancements and effects at all? Just DELETE THEM FROM THE GAME.

    Lord knows DDO needs consolidation and streamlining of effects to ease the calculation loads on their aging machines.

    Sigh...

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