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  1. #41
    Community Member apep1412's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    Reaper 3
    Concealment 20% (Blur)
    3 Attacks, 1 Blurry
    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    Blur (20%) is dead on Reaper 3, you basically have 0%
    So, what happened there? Actually on R2 or had a 5 piece Twilight's Cloak set?

  2. #42
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apep1412 View Post
    So, what happened there? Actually on R2 or had a 5 piece Twilight's Cloak set?
    Sorry, good catch, was a typo, it was R2 not R3.

    :: edit ::

    Had to trawl through hours of footage again to confirm that. Not fun.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  3. #43
    Chaotic Evil Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    Sorry, good catch, was a typo, it was R2 not R3.

    :: edit ::

    Had to trawl through hours of footage again to confirm that. Not fun.

    J1NG
    So its two different deduction values? One is 30 percent, the other is 35?

    Concealment (Blur, Displace, etc)

    Is reduced by a flat 5% on entering Reaper Difficulty, +5% per Reaper Skull, so Reaper 1 gets 10% flat concealment bypass. Reaper 2 gets 15% flat concealment bypass, etc.
    So if you have anything equal or less than 10% Concealment, you basically have nothing on entering Reaper 1.
    * new *There is a cap of 30% reduction,

    Incorporeal

    Is reduced by 5% per Reaper Skull. So by the time you reach Reaper 5, 25% Incorporeal is worthless.
    * new *There is a cap of 35% reduction

  4. #44
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    So its two different deduction values? One is 30 percent, the other is 35?
    Those are the max debuff numbers noticed. But yes the reduction values are different for both Concealment and Incorporeal. As for why they are different, who knows for sure outside the Dev(s) that did the change?

    So either it's:
    A. Concealment at Reaper difficulty is 5% reduced. And each skull increase reduces Concealment AND Incorporeal by a further 5%. (What we have here so far from the tests done, hence why the difference shown preivously)
    Or
    B. Incorporeal debuff is wrong for 0% at Reaper, and should actually be 5% reduced also, so both Concealment and Incorporeal reductions align. (I have doubts on this one, due to limitation of Incorporeal availability above 25% being EXTREMELY scarce).
    Or
    C. Concealment and Incorporeal should only be debuffed by 5% per Reaper Skull rating. And so Concealment should be 5% better than it should be. (I have doubts on this one, an inverse of B; where there's an abundance of Concealment sources going to 50% or higher)

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  5. #45
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    R4 Return to Cabal for One

    Preliminary tests on external sources (not provided by yourself, whether by item, spell or effect) of Concealment, suggest that it is reduced by the same proposed amount as listed in this thread (5% on entry to Reaper, +5% further debuff for each Skull rating). Therefore, in R3 or higher, do not ask for Blur, because you are only wasting the targets SP, as this will not provide you any protection at all.

    Clouds function not quite as directed or described in spells. Standing inside a cloud yields no results as per some descriptions (and what I tried previously hence why previously reported results showed they didn't do anything of the sort, as I only applied it to the characters vincinity, not the target), whether in Elite or Reaper. Casting the cloud onto a target however, will cause the target to miss as expected with Concealment. So anyone wanting to make use of Clouds, needs to remember to cast it onto the targets who you want to miss the attack with, and not the one(s) who need it for protection.

    These results (and some others that were recently tested on a different subject) suggest there are two varieties of Concealment available; beneficial (items, effects and spells you cast yourself or provided by others) and offensive (effects that simulate Concealment, such as by Clouds or the Blindness effect). It is only the beneficial variety that is being debuffed in Reaper, which is why Blindness (50%) and Clouds (20%) (which target an enemy to debuff them) do not get debuffed because offensive effects are not being altered, only beneficial ones are.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  6. #46
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Tests conducted in R1 shows that a Blur spell is replaced by a clouds Concealment when one is placed onto the enemies.

    This would suggest the following progression of usefulness for Concealment defence checks during Reaper:

    Reaper 1
    Master Illusionist (85% Effective Concealment, down from 95%)
    Blindness (50% Concealment)
    Displacement (40% Effective Concealment, down from 50%)
    Cloud Concealment (20% Effective)
    Lesser Displacement (15% Effective Concealment, down from 25%)
    Blur (10% Effective Concealment, down from 20%)
    Dusk (0% Effective Concealment, down from 10%)

    Reaper 2
    Master Illusionist (80% Effective Concealment, down from 95%)
    Blindness (50% Concealment)
    Displacement (35% Effective Concealment, down from 50%)
    Cloud Concealment (20% Effective)
    Lesser Displacement (10% Effective Concealment, down from 25%)
    Blur (5% Effective Concealment, down from 20%)
    Dusk (0% Effective Concealment, down from 10%)

    Reaper 3
    Master Illusionist (75% Effective Concealment, down from 95%)
    Blindness (50% Concealment)
    Displacement (30% Effective Concealment, down from 50%)
    Cloud Concealment (20% Effective)
    Lesser Displacement (5% Effective Concealment, down from 25%)
    Blur (0% Effective Concealment, down from 20%)
    Dusk (0% Effective Concealment, down from 10%)

    Reaper 4
    Master Illusionist (70% Effective Concealment, down from 95%)
    Blindness (50% Concealment)
    Displacement (25% Effective Concealment, down from 50%)
    Cloud Concealment (20% Effective)
    Lesser Displacement (0% Effective Concealment, down from 25%)
    Blur (0% Effective Concealment, down from 20%)
    Dusk (0% Effective Concealment, down from 10%)

    Reaper 5 through 10
    Master Illusionist (65% Effective Concealment, down from 95%)
    Blindness (50% Concealment)
    Displacement (20% Effective Concealment, down from 50%)
    Cloud Concealment (20% Effective)
    Lesser Displacement (0% Effective Concealment, down from 25%)
    Blur (0% Effective Concealment, down from 20%)
    Dusk (0% Effective Concealment, down from 10%)

    So once you reach Reaper 5 or higher, a Cloud is as useful as a player casting Displacement themselves (especially since a Cloud is not bypassed by True Seeing).

    Once again, I'd like to thank the players who have helped make these tests possible, providing the scrolls of spells (clouds) I was missing, and those who raised the query on using Clouds for defence during Reaper and whether they get reduced or not.

    J1NG

    :: edited ::
    Removed the 1 from the 10 in Blur entry for R5 to R10. Thanks for pointing out Mindos!
    Last edited by J1NG; 06-09-2021 at 05:55 PM.
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  7. #47
    Community Member LittleLexi's Avatar
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    First of all — thank you so much for actually doing the work to test these things out and then present them in an easy to understand way.

    I have to say...It's pretty disheartening. This is one of the many reasons why I don't like reaper difficulty, and also Epic content. Making a whole bunch of things just not work — or to such a minuscule extent — means a lot of cool, interesting, and flavorful options are just off the table. It narrows possible builds and playstyles...

    And that is the opposite of fun.

  8. #48
    Chaotic Evil Mindos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    Reaper 4


    Blur (0% Effective Concealment, down from 20%)


    Reaper 5 through 10

    Blur (10% Effective Concealment, down from 20%)
    I think this blur listed under Reaper 5 through 10 should also be zero not 10?

  9. #49
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    I think this blur listed under Reaper 5 through 10 should also be zero not 10?
    D'oh! Copied and pasted and edited them as I went down list, but missed that pesky 1 out from that "10". Sorting that one out now (editing) as it's more recent entry. Thanks for pointing out.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

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