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  1. #1
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    Default pvp has always sucked ... but.

    Why has there been 0 effort to make PvP decent? I mean, 16 years and all we have is tavern brawl .. that died out 15 years and 352 days ago?

    for example, why no "evil" server .. heck make it perma death to.. make it dark, chaotic and hard core evil to the bone!

    add rules of engagement, ie you cant attack someone more than x levels..
    balance it out

    fix classes like rogues who can sneak around and gank you when your not looking (aka players can see them)

    re-add spells for pvp .. like improved invisibility ..

    add pick pocket

    create corpses that can be looted with your fresh kills "stuff"

    pick a setting and build on it.. for example ravenloft .. thats suposed to scare the **** out of people .. currently.. its "cute" ... make it scare me!

    how about a city campaing.. change the "quests" into sub areas like alleys, passagewas and guild hiding spots ..

    quests are for those "goodie yuppy yups" ...

    I don’t mean a lame tavern brawl with no way to scale or modify pvp elements. I mean go big, or go home!


    Its quite clear the hardcore idea was fun .. but why not hit that next level ..

    When someone loots an awesome piece of gear they don’t need .. and you ask for it.. and they say .. no that’s for my alt .. I want to gank em and take it off his corpse..

    When the cleric has 8 levels of cleric and 12 levels of barbarian .. and he lets me die .. I want to send him to his maker..

    When I’m walking down the street and someone trys to rob me .. I’m gona light em up like a smores over the fire pit..

    If I’m playing a rogue.. I want to rob people blind..

    I don’t want to play some goodie two shoes paladin..! I want to play an evil death knight!

    If I play a cleric and accident cast inflict wounds .. heck.. well I'm sorry .. no wait ! I’m not..!

    or maybe I don’t feel like rezing you until I've audited your stuff and paid myself first..



    things that make you go hmm.

    An evil campaign .. who would have ever thought ...?

  2. #2
    Community Member A-O's Avatar
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    What you want isn't PVP. It's an entirely new game.
    Formerly known as Absolute-Omniscience, co-creator of the old DPS calc.

  3. #3
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    what you're asking for is entirely against the spirit of DDO.
    This is a good campaign.
    You can try and play a character with en evil theme (say, a Palemaster), but, ultimately, you're working for the Greater Good (tm).
    If you want an evil campaign, you're going to need the approval of every other player at the table to start a new campaign, and let the DM plan ahead for quests suitable to an evil group (the DDO equivalent of creating a whole new game)

    From personal experience, evil campaigns only work well when all the evil stuff you talked about never happens to the other players. Things like players robbing each other leads to campaigns ending a lot more often than it does making campaigns fun.

    Final mention is you cannot let both good and evil players coexist at a gaming table unless you present them all with a greater threat they have to fight together - which de facto turns it into a good campaign.
    Enthusiasm enthusiast enthusiast.

  4. #4
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    its interesting concept and would make ddo a little more "real world " for lack of a better term if you could pick evil alignment at char creation and act out your alignment. I like pvp but most people in this game dont. Seems like could be a cool game for pvp if they spent some time developing it.

    As far as another server goes woukdnt want that. They already added another permanant server with hcl and my guild and server are vacant. Until they get megaserver i dont want to see anymore added servers
    Khyber IN BAD COMPANY Longand Drunkmage Sexyheals Fullforce

  5. #5
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    All class abilities should work in PvP.
    Especially stealth/invisibility.

    I'd like to see a team vs team dungeon, complete with monsters, and teleportation traps.
    Force the teams to decide if they need to cooperate at certain points or eliminate their rivals.

    But.... don't waste too much dev time on this, and don't try to balance the game for PvP.
    (or hardcore.....or whiny melee only players....etc.)
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jandric View Post
    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  6. #6
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-O View Post
    What you want isn't PVP. It's an entirely new game.



    And if any of what you suggest is implemented, it would probably drive many more actual players from the game than it would theoretically attract. Myself among them. Right now, PvP in DDO is perfect: A footnote to an afterthought.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

    .58374.

  7. #7
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    As soon as PvP becomes significant and meaningful, players will want classes and builds balanced for PvP. I want classes and builds balanced for PvE. Those two things are not fully compatible.

    No additional emphasis on PvP, please.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  8. #8
    Community Member bls904c2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verlok_the_Red View Post
    Why has there been 0 effort to make PvP decent? I mean, 16 years and all we have is tavern brawl .. that died out 15 years and 352 days ago?

    for example, why no "evil" server .. heck make it perma death to.. make it dark, chaotic and hard core evil to the bone!

    add rules of engagement, ie you cant attack someone more than x levels..
    balance it out

    fix classes like rogues who can sneak around and gank you when your not looking (aka players can see them)

    re-add spells for pvp .. like improved invisibility ..

    add pick pocket

    create corpses that can be looted with your fresh kills "stuff"


    pick a setting and build on it.. for example ravenloft .. thats suposed to scare the **** out of people .. currently.. its "cute" ... make it scare me!

    how about a city campaing.. change the "quests" into sub areas like alleys, passagewas and guild hiding spots ..

    quests are for those "goodie yuppy yups" ...

    I don’t mean a lame tavern brawl with no way to scale or modify pvp elements. I mean go big, or go home!


    Its quite clear the hardcore idea was fun .. but why not hit that next level ..

    When someone loots an awesome piece of gear they don’t need .. and you ask for it.. and they say .. no that’s for my alt .. I want to gank em and take it off his corpse..

    When the cleric has 8 levels of cleric and 12 levels of barbarian .. and he lets me die .. I want to send him to his maker..

    When I’m walking down the street and someone trys to rob me .. I’m gona light em up like a smores over the fire pit..

    If I’m playing a rogue.. I want to rob people blind..

    I don’t want to play some goodie two shoes paladin..! I want to play an evil death knight!

    If I play a cleric and accident cast inflict wounds .. heck.. well I'm sorry .. no wait ! I’m not..!

    or maybe I don’t feel like rezing you until I've audited your stuff and paid myself first..



    things that make you go hmm.

    An evil campaign .. who would have ever thought ...?

    i remember the days of show your beater weapons and people being kicked for not enough hit points. that will happen again. while i never kicked any one out over weapons or hit points i would kick people out of party if this could happen.

    currently i dont invite people to my groups that troll people. you might find it fun because it is a bully pulpit but not fun for the one being bullied. i do have new ish people in my groups that are less then 6 months of playtime.

    SSG bans people for trolling why in the world would they put things in the game that is purely geared for trolling people.

  9. #9
    Community Member darkniteyogi's Avatar
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    theres a lot of fun things the community can do with the 1 on 1 arena or a team arena, but we have to create our own rules.

    eg. only class vs class, ranger vs ranger, etc with controlled variables so that it would be about skill, not cookie cutter no-skill builds.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bls904c2 View Post
    i remember the days of show your beater weapons and people being kicked for not enough hit points. that will happen again. while i never kicked any one out over weapons or hit points i would kick people out of party if this could happen.

    currently i dont invite people to my groups that troll people. you might find it fun because it is a bully pulpit but not fun for the one being bullied. i do have new ish people in my groups that are less then 6 months of playtime.

    SSG bans people for trolling why in the world would they put things in the game that is purely geared for trolling people.
    Out with the old: 'show me your HP/weapons', in with the new 'only accepting people with at least 1 Paladin level to make sure you're Lawful Good'
    Enthusiasm enthusiast enthusiast.

  11. #11
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    I love PVP but what are you speaking about is PK that is soo lame and cause just flame.
    DDO has PVP yet in the best form, we have different maps with and different PVP games. The problem is the motivation: no XP, no items, no titles... so nobody cares about it.
    Some kind of reward would be enought, someone complain that since he hates PVP don't wanna feel forced to play PVP, ok rewards could be not PVP exclusive. Would be really easy to make PVP real, but I'm waiting by 10 years. I don't think it will appens.
    The only thing that DDO is missing is PVP, but nobody cares.
    Leamos --> Completionist + Epic Completionist

    Arena PVP matchs are the only real end-game... still waiting that community will understand and let turbine to implement it.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verlok_the_Red View Post
    I mean, 16 years and all we have is tavern brawl
    False. You've just proven you can't speak knowledgeably on the subject.

    Why are evil, anti-social player-killer griefer types too lazy to do any research, learn about the PvP system DDO already has, and use it if they want to, while leaving the rest of us alone?

    If you really want a completely griefing-based game (and throwing skull- & pumpkin-heads isn't enough for you), there's other games that are designed to be more to your liking. There's no need to ruin a game that's based on the concept of teams working cooperatively to do heroic deeds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vargouille View Post
    As a general rule we don't intend for a single spawn area to cause any dungeon alert, and certainly not red dungeon alert. This basically isn't ever a goal in our designs

  13. #13
    Community Member Gniewomir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    False. You've just proven you can't speak knowledgeably on the subject.

    Why are evil, anti-social player-killer griefer types too lazy to do any research, learn about the PvP system DDO already has, and use it if they want to, while leaving the rest of us alone?

    If you really want a completely griefing-based game (and throwing skull- & pumpkin-heads isn't enough for you), there's other games that are designed to be more to your liking. There's no need to ruin a game that's based on the concept of teams working cooperatively to do heroic deeds.
    While personally i'm not a fan of pvp i'll never understand why some people love to mock the others just cause they want something different. It's not like ddo is too crowded and we've got no space for a different minded players. Ok, you don't like pvp, we already saw you have to whine in every pvp thread, but if there're folks interested in improving pvp - let them be. It's not like they're spamming in every thread "DELETE PVE FROM GAME, IT'S FOR NOOBS AND FOOLS AND ANTISOCIAL JERKS", so why are you so angry about their ideas? Your responses seems to be emotionally charged and i really doubt you're trying to be objective in your opinions. And even for me, player who is not interested in pvp, i would have nothing against pvp dedicated update(s) for a two reasons: firstly i've got nothing against keeping as many players in game as possible (and this include pvp guys), secondly there's enough quests in game and variety of activities/opportunities is never bad.

    Trying to describe pvp players as "evil, anti-social player-killer griefer types" is really, really low level chatter or maybe something influenced by "someone killed me years ago so every pvp player ever is jerk". Yawn. If you don't have skills to compete in pvp or at least enough control of your emotions then stay away from pvp, noone is forcing you to participate. Right now pvp in ddo is not existent and i would say half of current ddo populaton is "antisocial griefer types" anyway. 50% of population dont give a **** to at least say hi/bye/single word while being in party and ignore questions directly asked to them. Lets not pretend ddo is game for very social players and pvp would destroy them, especially since the few left pvp players i know are more friendly/helpful/social than most of the ppl i see while pugging.

    "learn about the PvP system DDO already has" is really silly thing to say. I wonder how long you would be playing ddo if for 16 years there was no single quest/level/anything added. I'm pretty sure maybe few roleplay players would be here, but game would be dead. Not because noone wants pve/quests, not because noone is interested in running them, but cause if systems are abandoned for 16 years - noone will stick around that long repeating 5 quests over and over again. And thats how pvp in ddo works - 16 years without a single change, even adding one stupid map. And like i said, i'm writing this as a player who is not interested in pvp, but also as a person who do not lack at least a little of empathy. For last 16 years i received few updates per year to a content i do play, i see no reason why players who have different taste should be left behind. I'm not so stingy to mock them for asking for at least one update/16 years.

    If we're talking about trying different games - feel free to do it yourself. If you cannot bear that there are different players who want different things and they've got every right to do it - mmo games are clearly not for you. At the end it's SSGs choice to favor one type of players over everyone else, but by definition mmo games contain different types of people and just because some of them would like to see stuff you don't want - it doesn't mean they're worse.

    I'm not trying to be sarcastic now, but the thing about "game based of concept of team working" made me laugh so hard. Based on concept, yeah, maybe, 16 years ago when game was designed. But i assume you were not playing for last 5+ years if you believe this concept is still around.

    PS: Obviously i don't have much experience with pvp in game, but on forum it seems PvE fanboys are much more toxic than pvp fans.
    Last edited by Gniewomir; 09-02-2020 at 07:42 AM.

  14. #14
    Community Member Hawkwier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verlok_the_Red View Post
    Why has there been 0 effort to make PvP decent? I mean, 16 years and all we have is tavern brawl .. that died out 15 years and 352 days ago?

    for example, why no "evil" server .. heck make it perma death to.. make it dark, chaotic and hard core evil to the bone!

    add rules of engagement, ie you cant attack someone more than x levels..
    balance it out

    fix classes like rogues who can sneak around and gank you when your not looking (aka players can see them)

    re-add spells for pvp .. like improved invisibility ..

    add pick pocket

    create corpses that can be looted with your fresh kills "stuff"

    pick a setting and build on it.. for example ravenloft .. thats suposed to scare the **** out of people .. currently.. its "cute" ... make it scare me!

    how about a city campaing.. change the "quests" into sub areas like alleys, passagewas and guild hiding spots ..

    quests are for those "goodie yuppy yups" ...

    I don’t mean a lame tavern brawl with no way to scale or modify pvp elements. I mean go big, or go home!


    Its quite clear the hardcore idea was fun .. but why not hit that next level ..

    When someone loots an awesome piece of gear they don’t need .. and you ask for it.. and they say .. no that’s for my alt .. I want to gank em and take it off his corpse..

    When the cleric has 8 levels of cleric and 12 levels of barbarian .. and he lets me die .. I want to send him to his maker..

    When I’m walking down the street and someone trys to rob me .. I’m gona light em up like a smores over the fire pit..

    If I’m playing a rogue.. I want to rob people blind..

    I don’t want to play some goodie two shoes paladin..! I want to play an evil death knight!

    If I play a cleric and accident cast inflict wounds .. heck.. well I'm sorry .. no wait ! I’m not..!

    or maybe I don’t feel like rezing you until I've audited your stuff and paid myself first..



    things that make you go hmm.

    An evil campaign .. who would have ever thought ...?
    This sort of thing could be fun if limited to a specific server like HC has been. Folks would then know what environment they were getting into.

    Be a bit like EVE with chibs and finger-wagglin!

  15. #15
    Community Member Hawkwier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gniewomir View Post
    ...stuff...

    ...on forum it seems folks are much more toxic than in game.
    ftfy

  16. #16
    Community Member Chnodomar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirValentine View Post
    False. You've just proven you can't speak knowledgeably on the subject.

    Why are evil, anti-social player-killer griefer types too lazy to do any research, learn about the PvP system DDO already has, and use it if they want to, while leaving the rest of us alone?

    If you really want a completely griefing-based game (and throwing skull- & pumpkin-heads isn't enough for you), there's other games that are designed to be more to your liking. There's no need to ruin a game that's based on the concept of teams working cooperatively to do heroic deeds.
    My favorite thing about DDO is that it doesn't enable these misanthropes, and makes them even more bitter because they can't get the thrill of making others as miserable as they are.
    I have an XBox One and a copy of Grand Theft Auto V sitting over there in the corner, and DDO isn't even remotely close to GTAV in terms of visual appeal, but I abandoned GTA V around the time I discovered DDO and never looked back because GTA V is built entirely around coddling and pampering trolls. About 75% of the people who play that game are reasonable folks just trying to have fun, but the developers cater to that other 25%. I was good enough at GTA V to defend myself, too, but spending an entire session doling out punishment and vengeance just isn't my idea of fun.
    DDO is about teamwork and HAVING FUN, not ruining other people's fun. People whose lives revolve around making others miserable should play a different game.

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