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  1. #141
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenicis View Post
    What would stop people from making tons of first life characters, running them to 20 and reincarnating them with hearts farmed by epic characters, deleting and doing it again.

    Do a 6/6/8 build and it doesn't matter, you play the same character over and over, reuse the same gear, don't have a TR cache to wory about and get the fastest possible run to 20. Fastest path to completionist I can think of.


    Yeah, not signed. Same applies to reaper points BTW, so not signing that one either.
    Youre not signing because you think this would happen...

    When in fact, this has been possible in game for a long time now. Heart seeds and token frags are BTA and have been for quite some time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  2. #142
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Youre not signing because you think this would happen...

    When in fact, this has been possible in game for a long time now. Heart seeds and token frags are BTA and have been for quite some time.
    He means that if PLs were shared, people would get their PLs in first lifers (needing less xp up to 20) instead of reincarnating their main. The truth is that this is easily avoidable if a system of shared PLs is designed, although I do not necessarily see it wrong, given the insane number of PLs that currently exist.

    There are two things I honestly don't understand.

    1- How can someone defend the current state of grind per character, which is the highest I have ever seen in a game (that is, how can someone defend it without hypocrisy, wanting to preserve their toon with grind of years of being reached by others newer players)

    2- Given that the favourite argument of the defenders of the status quo is that the PLs do not impact as much, and that no character needs to have them, why they oppose so much vehemence that PLs be shared or at least the grind per character is reduced. The only answer I can find to this conundrum is that they don't want their uber mains to get "competition." There is no other explanation, after all if you think it does not impact so much, why oppose this change?
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  3. #143
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    The problem is meaningless time consumption. Its pretty obvious each time one of these threads happens, like twice a month.

    Most MMOs that have had over a decade of life and still exist have a way to catch people up to the current META fairly quickly. In this one players start from scratch as people in the community move to protect previous time investments as a barrier to entry. In this, DDO is the exception, not the rule.
    This. So true.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  4. #144
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    I can guarantee, any player using the "it's for new players" excuse, just wants it for themselves. Most of those who use that excuse don't or wouldn't even dare to actually help a new player or even a returning player, cause it is beneath them to run normal/hard. So lets call this for what it is, semi-experienced/experienced players wanting it easier to get to the end with less effort then those that have made it already, including their own mains.

  5. #145
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeleron View Post
    I can guarantee, any player using the "it's for new players" excuse, just wants it for themselves. Most of those who use that excuse don't or wouldn't even dare to actually help a new player or even a returning player, cause it is beneath them to run normal/hard. So lets call this for what it is, semi-experienced/experienced players wanting it easier to get to the end with less effort then those that have made it already, including their own mains.
    And how weird do you see that people get sick just thinking of repeating a grind of years on their alts? I have a main with all the past lives, and I say it very clearly: I will never repeat that grind again, because I have been fed up, jaded, infinitely bored with reincarnations. I find stupid, illogical and insane that SSG finds normal to have to repeat a similar grind in each and every one of my alts. NO. I say NOT. And therefore, I have abandoned my alts and stopped spending on them. Does SSG sell more new tomes, more space, more of the masses of things that they do not stop on releasing? Great. I no longer need to buy for my alts, because I have decided to leave them the same as SSG has decided to abandon them. That is what SSG achieves with this policy. And as for newbies, yes, I have seen it repeatedly with people that I have brought into the game: as soon as they see the grind level of the DDO, they decide that this game is only to please the veterans and they leave the game.

    So it's not just a complaint for newbies or just a complaint for veterans with alts. This level of grind affects everyone.

    And yes, I can play my alts with just a few lives. But given the difference in power, which I have seen firsthand, I don't feel like doing it. If SSG wants to get money out of my alts, they should lower the grind to tolerable levels as it has been for most of the life of this game. People forget that the current grind level is NEW and a SSG thing. It is SSG that has gone crazy adding new and new grinds without shortening the old ones. For a long time, a whole decade of play, the grind per character was much lower. So let's not defend the current situation as the essence of DDO, which is a new thing that SSG has gotten wrong.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  6. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    Read Chai's posts, he quite nicely explained problems i have issues with.

    And you are correct, I have no understanding for someone who literally says he does not want someone else to have what he has.

    I don't obsess with uber, I obsess with SSG making it harder and harder for new players to get uber, while doing nothing (I laughed at that more quests =faster leveling logic) to reduce grind it takes. XP revamp made epic leveling easier, but actually made it harder to level in heroic for those who don't do reaper. Or don't like grouping.

    we're not talking about spending month grinding, were talking YEARS grinding.

    In a game full of different grinds.

    Which constantly adds new grinds.

    as said here:


    I don't care is someone means I have bad attitude, but when someone goes all:


    to anyone who says some part of the game should get changed can't expect me being nice.

    And here i did not see single reason for not reducing TR grind, but LOTS of "I play this way and you should do that too".

    I DON'T care about your strategies, I got "good XP/min" in my leveling, I know how to play effectively, I have my TR gear, I know what to do in 90% of quests. I don't need help TR-in.

    LOTS of players DO NOT, and as much as I wanna help myself I wanna help them too.
    Please show me where Mglaxix told you to run his way because it was the only way.... he merely stated how he ran his past lives off and never once told you or anyone that is the only way to run them just that after a period of time it was a waste of time and resources for him.

    Up to this point the only people who have told anyone the current system is not going to change and with no reason given is SSG.

    You should learn what sarcasm is Mglaxix could care less about 'protecting what he has' if that were true he would have never helped myself and others along the journey to gain what we wanted. Perhaps instead of reading his last line in a post you should have read what he posted in response to smokejumper89's idea of handing out a 160% exp boost account wide but he in fact liked the base idea just not the way smokejumper89 pushed it to 160% account wide. He never once told anyone that it was a bad idea just that it was way to much and it would probably hurt SSG sales.

    But hey everyone needs someone else to blame. I for one am glad Mglaxix introduced me into the reincarnation process and not someone who told me oh you are gonna need 132 past lives to be viable to play this game. I get along just fine with what I have on my alts and main.

    Sure you obsess about it our you would not keep bringing it up over and over again just in this thread alone. I found three times where you mention that it is your long term plan and that you expect it to be a multi year journey but you have yet to tell me how many past lives at all you have gotten done on your main in the 4 years you have been on the forums. I have been playing just over a year and working towards my 16th life never having played this game other than on pen and paper. Now I chose to utilize a VIP sub during that time for 6 months and made sure to take full advantage of that to get as much done for free as I could and now that all the content was given away for free I have all the packs and will be getting ravenloft and sharn with points hopefully on sale that I earn not spend any cash on.

    I think if you had an effective leveling and past life acquisition system you would not be here asking for shared past lives at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    OH, but I DO play a lot, 90% of my free time is spent playing DDO.

    And comparing notes I see it means I would still need to double that playtime to have a chance at ONE completionist before final server shutdown.

    And one of my longterm goals IS getting uber.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    Right back at you.

    Just because completionist is not "needed" it has to be locked behind HUGE paywall/grind?
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    Facepalm....

    By "uber" I mean "uber completionist"

    Meaning:

    All Racial PL's x3
    All class PL's x3
    All iconic PL's x3
    All Epic PL's x3

    I don't expect getting it anytime soon or "for free".
    That's multi year goal, and one I'm working on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Duskofdead View Post
    Not being able to finish the content in a manner other than piking or being carried through as a stone is an extremely effective "requirement on a quest or raid that will lock out your character."

    If content is extraordinarily hard and I can expect to die tons, I am OK with that if I am fairly sure of successfully finishing. If it's 50/50 or 40/60, it's not a good investment of my time. Which is why I don't run mid/high reaper, and once in epics I change from running everything on elite to running everything on normal, and hard if I'm repeating or doing over-level.

    You may know every way in the game to get a character to this point first, very quickly and effectively, and/or you may have already done it for every character you play years ago. Do you honestly believe that is typical of players not already there, or players who started since the free content? Be realistic.
    I never get carried though raids as soul stone on my main or first life alts and I have just over a year of game time. I use some of the forum builds but have tweaked them as I needed. I don't raid on reaper but will join most any reaper group and get invited to plenty from tells sent to me as well. If they listen, learn, and do what they are told to do until they know what to do instead of saying yeah yeah yeah I am already an expert I image a lot of them would do better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    Already addressed that. Challenge/difficulty and time consumption are two different things.

    I also dont buy into the "all is fine because its not all needed" position. This market audience is chucked full of min maxers and meta gamers. They are not here to strive for mediocrity and be told to be satisfied with C+ characters due to a hilarious level of time consumption they have ahead of them. This is an especially dangerous marketing scheme when plenty of other games have incorporated mechanisms for either having a flat horizontal progression at max level (limiting the time consumption needed), or catching people up to viability in previous eras very quickly (dont have to start from literal scratch and can play end game in this era).

    One of those solutions should be applied here. This is what people are asking for. Instead we are getting 10 new levels at some point, and it is highly likely we will be getting at minimum one other grind system (legendary reincarnation perhaps) along with those legendary levels. This will also include several new gear farms as the levels wont all be introduced at once. Also meaning all the gear you farmed for endgame purposes now-days will only be there to get you through what will become more pass-through-levels on your way to 40.
    Challenge, difficulty are all factors into the time required to gain past lives.

    I have met plenty of min max players and most are all happy to box and box and box and most could care less about the cost because this is their entertainment vs going out to dinner, movies, buying a shiny new car or whatever else.





    The funny thing I see in this thread is none of the people who want shared past lives have posted that they are willing to pay a single dollar for any of it. Just give me a discount on it and SSG should just jump and say sure thing. Oh now of course they are 'going to buy some pots and stuff' at least in theory but let's go ahead have some kind of cash commitment right up front just like an expansion $140 for some type of shared past lives, experience, or something along those lines and lets see how many of them are willing to put their money where their mouth is.
    Last edited by SevenDeadlySins; 08-07-2020 at 01:25 AM.
    Seven Deadly Sins < Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wraith, Envy, Pride > we all suffer from sin from time to time recognizing it and stepping back away from it is what allows us to grow

  7. #147
    Community Member SpittingCobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KhellendrosUK View Post
    I know it's a long shot but it's worth a try...

    Myself and some friends were chatting recently about how DDO just isn't alt friendly any more, mostly due to the Past Life and Reaper XP grinds and someone came up with the idea of making those both account level. All the work would still have to be put in but only once per account, meaning we could have a few different toons and not have to be depressed at how weak they were compared to our 'mains'. We'd still need all the loot for each toon but, most of the time, we could bring what was needed to a party and have a bit of variation without having to jump on the hamster wheel with another toon, or TRing to another class for a bit of a change. I've put about 10+ years into getting my main all the PLs (I know, OCD but only 4 to go!) Please don't make me do them all again on the next toon!

    /beg
    That would be so cool! I could focus on my main for the PLs, and just get my alts up to level 30 and know they are on par with my main, they would spend their days focused on sentient weapons and have less to do ultimately, though more of the fun stuff and less of the grind impossible catch up which won't happen anyways. I have resigned that most of my alts will be 1 life only how far can you get like that builds. I will have maybe a few TR'd alts, and a complete Main, which is has a ways to go still. It would save me from maybe a few TRs, for those alts I intend to TR once or twice, but not save my main from the PLs he still needs. I am not opposed to this idea. I have seen this discussed so many times, it won't reduce play time if they did so I support the idea.
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  8. #148
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDeadlySins View Post
    The funny thing I see in this thread is none of the people who want shared past lives have posted that they are willing to pay a single dollar for any of it. Just give me a discount on it and SSG should just jump and say sure thing. Oh now of course they are 'going to buy some pots and stuff' at least in theory but let's go ahead have some kind of cash commitment right up front just like an expansion $140 for some type of shared past lives, experience, or something along those lines and lets see how many of them are willing to put their money where their mouth is.
    First of all, this is not even true because I personally saw many posts where players mentioned they would pay for a mechanic that makes alts keep up with there mains...
    However I'm not one of them, YES I think this has to be a free feature and there is no need to monetize it at all!

    The fact that someone asks for something included in DDO means not that this has to be automatically monetized and it can be obviously a rightful demand anyhow!
    Last edited by Chacka_DDO; 08-07-2020 at 04:44 AM.
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  9. #149
    Community Member Chacka_DDO's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeleron View Post
    I can guarantee, any player using the "it's for new players" excuse, just wants it for themselves. Most of those who use that excuse don't or wouldn't even dare to actually help a new player or even a returning player, cause it is beneath them to run normal/hard. So lets call this for what it is, semi-experienced/experienced players wanting it easier to get to the end with less effort then those that have made it already, including their own mains.
    If someone uses it as an argument that shared long term progression between your characters is something good especially for new players it is obviously wrong.
    Such a step is good for everyone, for veterans AND new players, it is just a bit more beneficial for new players.
    I'm a veteran player and I would like such a feature in DDO because I'm convinced this is basically just only a logical design step that makes the game better for everyone who is interested in playing several characters.

    The point is that there is an obvious design gap in my opinion because DDO is basically nowadays designed to play only one character.
    The developers add more and more so-called grind to the game to keep players busy who play only one character.
    The result is it is now almost impossible to play several characters and keep them on par.
    The logical step to make it meaningful again to play several characters is to share some aspects of the character progression.
    And this is in my opinion reason enough to do such a step in DDO.

    How to help new players to keep up with veterans is another question and I'm personally absolutely open for suggestions to make this possible without spending ridiculous amounts of money for things like Otto's boxes.
    Last edited by Chacka_DDO; 08-07-2020 at 04:46 AM.
    "Act according to a maxim which can be adopted at the same time as a universal law."
    -Immanuel Kant-

    "Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has."
    -René Descartes-

  10. #150
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    I don't think having past lives shared among all your characters would be all that great for new players. You would almost never see a vet running a character with fewer lives than they have on their main. That would give new players even fewer low power alts to group with than they have now (which admittedly is **** few already, it's pretty much ready-for-reaper or gtfo in most pugs).

    At the same time, the level of grind we have here is horrible both for alts and new players. I don't buy the argument "You don't need any of that, you can totally be uber without it." As others have pointed out, if it doesn't make any difference then why would the players that have that stuff under their belts already be fighting tooth and nail to keep the grind wall in place? It doesn't make any sense.

    It's not as if you get some fancy cosmetic you can show off to tell everyone how special you are, literally all you get from it is character power. If it's "who the **** cares" level of power, than why do you care how easy it is to get? Besides that, anyone that tells me 12 extra build points from 36 racial lives isn't a substantial power boost is a dirty dirty liar (or very bad at choosing a race for their builds).

    The only solution that splits the difference between these two sets of concerns is simply making the grind a lot quicker. You still have to do it on every character, but it doesn't take six years of your life. Nothing here is new, these always get brought up (and some have already been brought up in this thread). Regardless, any of this would help:

    1. Make the XP penalty take a lot longer to kick in (10 or 20 lives to get the the current life 3 penalty)

    2. Front load racial lives (i.e., reverse the bonus order). Even if the last life per race only yeilded that crappy +1 skill bonus, players would still do them for racial completionist (it's a powerful free feat after all).

    3. Make each heroic TR grant a racial and class life

    4. Make each iconic TR grant a class and epic life
    Last edited by yfernbottom; 08-07-2020 at 07:16 AM.

  11. #151
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDeadlySins View Post

    The funny thing I see in this thread is none of the people who want shared past lives have posted that they are willing to pay a single dollar for any of it. Just give me a discount on it and SSG should just jump and say sure thing. Oh now of course they are 'going to buy some pots and stuff' at least in theory but let's go ahead have some kind of cash commitment right up front just like an expansion $140 for some type of shared past lives, experience, or something along those lines and lets see how many of them are willing to put their money where their mouth is.
    A cursory review of my post history will reveal that I'm not just the president of the Anti-P2W club, I'm also a client.

    I'm fine with selling/monetizing things they have to create as a one time charge. Content, expansions, cosmetics, etc...

    When the only way the XP bar moves at a reasonable rate is when you buy a potion to mitigate the arbitrary increase in XP needed to level, thats out of bounds. Plenty of games have zero need to monetize this, as it has been proven that big spenders will pay whale levels of money to obtain things that grant them zero advantage playing the game - things like translucent armor, evening gown looking robes, glow in the dark weapons, and mount skins for iconic creatures.

    Add that onto the fact that this is literally what drives the NEED to drop another completely different progression system into the game, and we see how absurd this all becomes. TR revenue dropping created the need to add ETR, etc (apply that to each new grind system). Each time people get "caught up" and are satisfied with not paying to make those grinds bearable, another grind hits the market, and the grind wall moves further out of reach for anyone who just showed up.

    The only thing that will cause less of these threads to show up each time more grind is added, is the attrition of those folks who can no longer keep up, who are not satisfied with striving for mediocrity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

  12. #152
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeleron View Post
    I can guarantee, any player using the "it's for new players" excuse, just wants it for themselves. Most of those who use that excuse don't or wouldn't even dare to actually help a new player or even a returning player, cause it is beneath them to run normal/hard. So lets call this for what it is, semi-experienced/experienced players wanting it easier to get to the end with less effort then those that have made it already, including their own mains.
    And you'd be wrong.

    If you're so selfish to never help others, it does not mean other are that selfish.

    as they say in Croatia: "Lopov vidi lopova u svakome" (poorly translated: "Thief sees thief's in everyone")
    DISCLAIMER: I did not call you a thief, I just quoted oft said quote in Croatia.

    DON'T project your faults on me. I actually care about newbies, unlike some others.
    Last edited by Drunkendex; 08-07-2020 at 10:40 AM.

  13. #153
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDeadlySins View Post
    You should learn what sarcasm is Mglaxix could care less about 'protecting what he has' if that were true he would have never helped myself and others along the journey to gain what we wanted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mglaxix View Post
    So hopefully if you read my response to smokejumper89 post you are correct that I am totally against new players, don't ever want them to get what I have, and certainly don't think there is any reasonable way to help them along the way..... and if so..... I must be an elitist......
    This does not look like sarcasm. More like "I feel special, and don't want others to have what I have"

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDeadlySins View Post
    Sure you obsess about it our you would not keep bringing it up over and over again just in this thread alone. I found three times where you mention that it is your long term plan and that you expect it to be a multi year journey but you have yet to tell me how many past lives at all you have gotten done on your main in the 4 years you have been on the forums.
    here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    2 - yes I play for over 4 years, and most of that time was not spent TR-ing but unlocking ALL but 2 adventure packs and all races/classes. plus farming gear. As premium, so my favor runs were N/H/E not just E. I WORKED HARD for my adventure packs. And all but 2 were bought on sale.
    And I still think that giving all adventure packs for free was awesome move, since I'm NOT selfish elitist who thinks that when someone asks for easier time acquiring something I have he wants it for free. (quite ironic since they actually got for free something I worked hard for)
    and here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    Up until 1 year ago I could NOT afford subscription, getting cheapest point pack on double bonus points was stretching my finances (8$ is not exactly loose change in Croatia, we like to pretend we're 1st world country, but we're closer to 3rd world) since I was unemployed and was surviving (literally) on low paying part time jobs.

    I know what it means when you have to watch every cent and every luxury you give yourself (like cheapest point pack) riddles you with guilt.
    and here:
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    11 - yeah read previous, and also one of my previous posts on having to EARN packs via favor farming. I also earned almost every race/class that way.
    if I were to drop VIP I would only lose access to Alchemist and Wood elf, so I actually have one Completionist, "Premium owns almost everything in game" Completionist. Quite a feat for someone who could not afford luxuries.
    So my time was spent getting every pack/race/class as someone who could not afford throwing money at game. As I have decently paying job now, i can spend more on DDO (still not throwing 50$ worth of points on box most of whose contents mean nothing to me, if they would sell only Otto's stone for equivalent price, then I would actually consider buying some)

    And I actually played other games in those 4 years (SHOCKING!!!!)

    And while we're on join dates, yours say Aug 2020...

    As knowledgeable as you are about game, don't tell me you're bypassing ban, since that is SERIOUS offense, according to ToS.

    Or are intending to go against community rules and want to avoid getting punishment on main acc.

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDeadlySins View Post
    I think if you had an effective leveling and past life acquisition system you would not be here asking for shared past lives at all.
    MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! (yes, I laughed IRL)

    I did not ask for shared PL's, but for lesser TR grind.

    I'm pretty satisfied with my XP/min, and horrified that even if I got it to TR every 3 days (something for which several people said it's not recommended for sanity's sake) it would still take me LOOONG time.
    Just as example, since people apparently can't check themselves:

    for simplicity: let's say PC TR's every 3 days.

    Class compl: 15*3 days = 45 days
    135 days if you're going for x3 class PL's

    Racial compl: 12*3*3 = 108 days (by mistake I included Wood elf in previous calculation)
    soon to change to 13*3*3 = 117 days

    Iconic PL's: 7*3*3 = 63 days
    Soon 8*3*3 = 72 days (IIRC iconic also gives class PL so we see bit of reduction)
    we can ignore this one since you can do class + iconic PL's at same time.


    EPL: 4*3 per ED = 48 EPL's - let's ignore this one for simplicity.

    JUST to unlock 2 compl feats you need 162 days (just to point out that's almost half year)
    at TR every 3 days.

    Which no sane player can do for long.

    And leveling at that rate (even in group) means you don't have time for playing rest of game, save few things which can be done alongside (things which are only few)

    And just so say, in GW2 leggy farm, which is more or less endgame for most players takes few months for CASUAL farm. And that becomes faster with each new leggy. (or so they say) Plus GW2 leggy farming actually requires you to play different parts of game. (HEY SSG!!! In this part you could actually copy Anet)

    I think it's pretty clear why I advocate for lessening of TR grind.

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDeadlySins View Post
    I never get carried though raids as soul stone on my main or first life alts and I have just over a year of game time. I use some of the forum builds but have tweaked them as I needed. I don't raid on reaper but will join most any reaper group and get invited to plenty from tells sent to me as well. If they listen, learn, and do what they are told to do until they know what to do instead of saying yeah yeah yeah I am already an expert I image a lot of them would do better.
    I do pretty well through leggy raids on my 3rd life barb, just ask Voodu or Nimvind.

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDeadlySins View Post
    I have met plenty of min max players and most are all happy to box and box and box and most could care less about the cost because this is their entertainment vs going out to dinner, movies, buying a shiny new car or whatever else.
    So many PL feats are whale only zone?

    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDeadlySins View Post
    The funny thing I see in this thread is none of the people who want shared past lives have posted that they are willing to pay a single dollar for any of it. Just give me a discount on it and SSG should just jump and say sure thing. Oh now of course they are 'going to buy some pots and stuff' at least in theory but let's go ahead have some kind of cash commitment right up front just like an expansion $140 for some type of shared past lives, experience, or something along those lines and lets see how many of them are willing to put their money where their mouth is.
    [/quote]

    As Chai said, also one of selling points of game is that it's not p2p, and main reason I became VIP after being able to afford it. I support companies that don't gate their product behind paygate. One of reasons I quit GW2 was paygate (and I owned both expansions, so nothing was locked to me, I just decided that, unlike SSG, Anet was not worthy of more my money)

    Now since there have been quite a few good suggestions on lessening TR grind, let's ad one that would make some people pop a vein.

    1-20 on first life is 1900000 XP (bit under otto's stone)
    1-20 on 2nd life is 2850000 XP (~otto's stone x1.5)
    1-20 on 3+ life is 3800000 XP (2x otto - 5%)

    Let's reduce 3+ life XP to what would otto's stone give with XP bonuses.
    Guild bonus is 5%
    Heroism item (voice, ioun stone, etc) is 5%
    VIP bonus is 10% (plus occasional boost, since those are occasional, we're not gonna list them)
    best pot is 50%
    ---------
    that's 70% bonus (I'm just listing ones that apply on saga XP)

    let's make 3+ life be otto's stone (2 mil XP) + 70% of that.

    or

    2000000*1.7 = 3400000 XP. (or 400000 XP less than current)

    Now heroic otto's box + sov pot + other bonuses give exactly one PL to 3+ lives toons, people doing TR-ing have lesser grind, etc, etc...

    You may rage now.

  14. #154
    Community Member Duskofdead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SevenDeadlySins View Post
    I never get carried though raids as soul stone on my main or first life alts and I have just over a year of game time. I use some of the forum builds but have tweaked them as I needed. I don't raid on reaper but will join most any reaper group and get invited to plenty from tells sent to me as well. If they listen, learn, and do what they are told to do until they know what to do instead of saying yeah yeah yeah I am already an expert I image a lot of them would do better.
    Then you have:

    A) A guild that knows you know what you are doing, even if you're on a still developing toon, and/or helps and covers for you while you catch up;
    B) The game meta-knowledge to be very effective for your given amount of past lives or gearing and survive in at-level epic elite, reapers, etc.

    Neither of which are typical for people not already in the same position you are in. Certainly not for anyone who has started DDO within the last year or so.

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    It'd be perfectly nifty if past lives were shared just so one could have characters available at differently level brackets to easily group with friends. XP should also be normalized based off this; either with the amount required being based off the shared reincarnation number or made identical for 1st lifer, 2nd, & 3rd+ to prevent people from just power leveling new characters over and over again.

  16. #156

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    First post in 7/30, current last one 8/7. 3 ETRs could have completed on your alt. If you are faster then me, 3 TR and ETRs, making that alt "great" again.

  17. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chacka_DDO View Post
    First of all, this is not even true because I personally saw many posts where players mentioned they would pay for a mechanic that makes alts keep up with there mains...
    However I'm not one of them, YES I think this has to be a free feature and there is no need to monetize it at all!

    The fact that someone asks for something included in DDO means not that this has to be automatically monetized and it can be obviously a rightful demand anyhow!
    I stand by my statemt

    The funny thing I see in this thread is none of the people who want shared past lives have posted that they are willing to pay a single dollar for any of it. Just give me a discount on it and SSG should just jump and say sure thing. Oh now of course they are 'going to buy some pots and stuff' at least in theory but let's go ahead have some kind of cash commitment right up front just like an expansion $140 for some type of shared past lives, experience, or something along those lines and lets see how many of them are willing to put their money where their mouth is.

    Please go ahead and link me a single statement from a post in this thread where someone is willing to pay for past lives shared anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chai View Post
    A cursory review of my post history will reveal that I'm not just the president of the Anti-P2W club, I'm also a client.

    I'm fine with selling/monetizing things they have to create as a one time charge. Content, expansions, cosmetics, etc...

    When the only way the XP bar moves at a reasonable rate is when you buy a potion to mitigate the arbitrary increase in XP needed to level, thats out of bounds. Plenty of games have zero need to monetize this, as it has been proven that big spenders will pay whale levels of money to obtain things that grant them zero advantage playing the game - things like translucent armor, evening gown looking robes, glow in the dark weapons, and mount skins for iconic creatures.

    Add that onto the fact that this is literally what drives the NEED to drop another completely different progression system into the game, and we see how absurd this all becomes. TR revenue dropping created the need to add ETR, etc (apply that to each new grind system). Each time people get "caught up" and are satisfied with not paying to make those grinds bearable, another grind hits the market, and the grind wall moves further out of reach for anyone who just showed up.

    The only thing that will cause less of these threads to show up each time more grind is added, is the attrition of those folks who can no longer keep up, who are not satisfied with striving for mediocrity.
    Are you also be the president of the Anti-P2P club as well

    I managed to cap on my first life to 30 fill in every single epic destiny completely and never burned a single pot. Nor have I ever burned a pot.

    Character XP Curve Changes

    The XP curve while leveling has been adjusted.

    It still takes 1,900,000 total XP to complete level 19 and reach level 20 on your first life. Experience required to complete each level had been redistributed. For a detailed look at the new distribution, click here!
    Second life = 150% First Life XP. Overall XP needed to complete Second life has been decreased from previous amounts. (Second life characters now need 289,250 less XP to reach level 20.)
    Additional (3rd or above) life = 200% First Life XP. Overall XP needed to complete Third life (or fourth, etc.) has been decreased from previous amounts. (Third life characters now need 578,500 less XP to reach level 20.)
    XP granted for Veteran Status I and II have been properly adjusted to match the new XP curve.

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Update_20_Release_Notes

    I guess this did not help or does not count since it was seven years ago.

    Hardcore has proven that a lot of people will run for cosmetic gear and a horse.

    I have seen more than my share of less than mediocore players with wings triple completionists and all the whistles a bad player will not become good becasue they obtained some more power and have no idea how to contribute to the group or even solo with 5 hirelings.


    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    This does not look like sarcasm. More like "I feel special, and don't want others to have what I have"
    Well I guess if you read the complete post and considered what he was saying even after you called him a toxic elitist vs what you wanted him to say you might come to a different conculsion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    So my time was spent getting every pack/race/class as someone who could not afford throwing money at game. As I have decently paying job now, i can spend more on DDO (still not throwing 50$ worth of points on box most of whose contents mean nothing to me, if they would sell only Otto's stone for equivalent price, then I would actually consider buying some)

    And I actually played other games in those 4 years (SHOCKING!!!!)
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    Kinda hard to be on TR train when you have to rerun same quest over and over because you don't own most of content around some levels.
    So you state once again you have no past lives on any character after 4 years yet your other posts don't seem to match.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    7 - And I'm playing DDO in several ways, doing TR train with my main, raiding at cap with my barb, chilling on another alt when I feel burnout coming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    I DON'T care about your strategies, I got "good XP/min" in my leveling, I know how to play effectively, I have my TR gear, I know what to do in 90% of quests. I don't need help TR-in.
    So some of your statements have to be incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    And while we're on join dates, yours say Aug 2020...

    As knowledgeable as you are about game, don't tell me you're bypassing ban, since that is SERIOUS offense, according to ToS.

    Or are intending to go against community rules and want to avoid getting punishment on main acc.
    I have all the same resources as anyone www.google.com and I take all the information that is shared and utilize it all not ignore it and say I don't want need or desire anyone's help.

    I'd comment further on this but that would indeed be breach of community rules just like you have done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! (yes, I laughed IRL)

    I did not ask for shared PL's, but for lesser TR grind.

    I'm pretty satisfied with my XP/min, and horrified that even if I got it to TR every 3 days (something for which several people said it's not recommended for sanity's sake) it would still take me LOOONG time.
    Just as example, since people apparently can't check themselves:

    for simplicity: let's say PC TR's every 3 days.

    Class compl: 15*3 days = 45 days
    135 days if you're going for x3 class PL's

    Racial compl: 12*3*3 = 108 days (by mistake I included Wood elf in previous calculation)
    soon to change to 13*3*3 = 117 days

    Iconic PL's: 7*3*3 = 63 days
    Soon 8*3*3 = 72 days (IIRC iconic also gives class PL so we see bit of reduction)
    we can ignore this one since you can do class + iconic PL's at same time.


    EPL: 4*3 per ED = 48 EPL's - let's ignore this one for simplicity.

    JUST to unlock 2 compl feats you need 162 days (just to point out that's almost half year)
    at TR every 3 days.

    Which no sane player can do for long.

    And leveling at that rate (even in group) means you don't have time for playing rest of game, save few things which can be done alongside (things which are only few)

    And just so say, in GW2 leggy farm, which is more or less endgame for most players takes few months for CASUAL farm. And that becomes faster with each new leggy. (or so they say) Plus GW2 leggy farming actually requires you to play different parts of game. (HEY SSG!!! In this part you could actually copy Anet)

    I think it's pretty clear why I advocate for lessening of TR grind.
    Shared past lives less tr grind my bad it still all boils down to the same thing you want a discount after investing 4 years or so and feel as though that time should count towards some type of discount.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    I do pretty well through leggy raids on my 3rd life barb, just ask Voodu or Nimvind.
    Yet another contridiction in your past life statements is it so hard to put a real number on it or is this just you alt character and not your main with no past lives.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    So many PL feats are whale only zone?
    That's strange I managed 15 lives on a whopping $60 does that make me a whale.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    As Chai said, also one of selling points of game is that it's not p2p, and main reason I became VIP after being able to afford it. I support companies that don't gate their product behind paygate. One of reasons I quit GW2 was paygate (and I owned both expansions, so nothing was locked to me, I just decided that, unlike SSG, Anet was not worthy of more my money)
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    And locking one of main features of this game behind paywall and/or no fun/no life playstyle is NOT good for game's longevity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    gating PL's behind HUGE paywall/grind just because some people who have absolutely no life like to feel special for not having fun while playing is dumb.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    Just because completionist is not "needed" it has to be locked behind HUGE paywall/grind?
    So in your own words in three seperate statements and now you state that you support SSG becasue they don't gate their products behind a paygate. Tell me which one is it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    Now since there have been quite a few good suggestions on lessening TR grind, let's ad one that would make some people pop a vein.

    1-20 on first life is 1900000 XP (bit under otto's stone)
    1-20 on 2nd life is 2850000 XP (~otto's stone x1.5)
    1-20 on 3+ life is 3800000 XP (2x otto - 5%)

    Let's reduce 3+ life XP to what would otto's stone give with XP bonuses.
    Guild bonus is 5%
    Heroism item (voice, ioun stone, etc) is 5%
    VIP bonus is 10% (plus occasional boost, since those are occasional, we're not gonna list them)
    best pot is 50%
    ---------
    that's 70% bonus (I'm just listing ones that apply on saga XP)

    let's make 3+ life be otto's stone (2 mil XP) + 70% of that.

    or

    2000000*1.7 = 3400000 XP. (or 400000 XP less than current)

    Now heroic otto's box + sov pot + other bonuses give exactly one PL to 3+ lives toons, people doing TR-ing have lesser grind, etc, etc...

    You may rage now.
    Well since this is already true and how it works you won't have any more problems gaining your uber completionist just like the whales as you like to call them. Guess you can be happy now or as you like to say.

    You may rage now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskofdead View Post
    Then you have:

    A) A guild that knows you know what you are doing, even if you're on a still developing toon, and/or helps and covers for you while you catch up;
    B) The game meta-knowledge to be very effective for your given amount of past lives or gearing and survive in at-level epic elite, reapers, etc.

    Neither of which are typical for people not already in the same position you are in. Certainly not for anyone who has started DDO within the last year or so.
    Sorry I mostly pug raids. I raid on my first life characters just like many people do and can. My first life characters are developed to the point I can run LH raids just fine.
    If I wanted to be typical I'd be right here wanting it all handed to me as well after all I haven't invested years into my characters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anuulified View Post
    First post in 7/30, current last one 8/7. 3 ETRs could have completed on your alt. If you are faster then me, 3 TR and ETRs, making that alt "great" again.
    If some put the effort into their characrters they did into asking for stuff for their characters they would already be done.
    Seven Deadly Sins < Lust, Gluttony, Greed, Sloth, Wraith, Envy, Pride > we all suffer from sin from time to time recognizing it and stepping back away from it is what allows us to grow

  18. #158
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrudh View Post
    not satisfied with A- and completing end-game quests on R8 (with end-game gear - BTA picked up by your main), and doing all leveling quests easily on R1-R4 is not good enough for them.
    This is exactly true for those concerned primarily with alt power. It's kind of amusing to be leveling a character with 2 paladin PLs, zero ETR, 24 rxp and have new folks assume you have a few million past lives. It's just game knowledge and gear preparation.

    Brand new first life that has never played DDO before can easily solo HE and EH. Brand new first life with resources (knowledge, CC, gear, etc) can easily solo R1+ all the way to L29, solid up to R6 from there, and still a decent contributor up to R8.

    IMHO, all arguments about PLs & RXP being an insurmountable barrier to character power fall flatter than a doormat and lie there for the rest of the posters to wipe their feet on.


    This is where the alt account argument gets me: progression. I like playing a variety of characters. I like the feel of progress. If I can play a variety and get even more of a feeling of progress, this is an unbelievably huge win.

    If I can do all of that and avoid the part of the game I actually hate (heroics), that will keep me playing (and paying) because eventually, it will come down to nothing left but completionist for "things left to do". Since that's pure heroic, that's when I punt DDO.

    So, what I'd like to see is not only account progress for HTR/RTR, but I'd like to see HTR & RTR combined into one TR; ie. do a L20 TR and get your current race and your current class PLs. Anything that reduces or eliminates heroic play is fantastic.

  19. #159
    Community Member LittleLexi's Avatar
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    I don't agree that past lives should be shared between characters on an account . I didn't agree that exp should either, but I've come around on that slightly. Only because of the state we're in and because we're playing Otto's Boxes Online. An item I've never liked or bought, and wish never existed, because guess what - it also furthers the gap between the haves and have-nots. It's where we are though...

    That aside - the five main solutions I can think of that would help newbies and alts alike are:

    1. A revamped tutorial, say on a newbie island instance, that teaches the player about various gameplay elements and completing each one grants a buff. For example a tutorial on shield blocking, which then grants a buff like +5 AC and + 3 PRR, that lasts 5 hours long. There would be various such tutorials, and introductory dungeons, and as long as the player has completed them all - they can go to an npc to refresh their buffs, akin to guild buffs. The catch being they only work for first to ninth life toons(more on that later) and can't be taken if players choose to skip the equivalent of the "Korthos storyline", which would be "Newbie Isle", or whatever. It could even be done via the addition of a new favor patron with their own buffs, but again - one that is only present on an island otherwise inaccessible to veteran characters.

    In addition: Each new character should also start with a BTC sovereign exp pot and treasure elixir, a few cure serious pots, a mnemonic pot for SP, and also an interactive map(as in a new item in their inventory that is clickable) that shows a snapshot of the different public zones, with extra clarity on the npcs/doors/portals that enable character transport.

    2. A new item called the "Stone of Learning", purchasable from the store or with Tokens of the Twelve/Heart seeds(But free to VIPs or Season Pass users). Having this item in your inventory allows you to interact with it to toggle it on/off, where off = a permanent +10% exp boost while in that character's inventory, and where on = a permanent 5% exp boost, as well as +7.5% exp on top of that which instead goes into a pool of sort. This item can then be traded to other characters via the Shared Bank, where the built up exp(from the +7.5% bonus) can be slurped up. This way it is up to the player how they want to divide some of their exp - or if they want to at all - with the option of having it set to on yielding slightly more overall exp; the idea being sharing what you've learned being more rewarding Of course - there would have to be a mechanic where the bonus exp from the pool is ineligible to be consumed by the character that earned it, to prevent players from just lumping all the extra exp on that one character.

    There could even be an "Urn of Learning"(name could be iterated upon :P) specifically for Reaper exp. Not to mention bonus days that apply specifically to the "pooled exp" earned or consumed.

    3. The recent VIP perma buddy bonus should be doubled to 2% per party member and extend to Premium and F2P players alike. Grouping should be encouraged as much as possible. In the past people would swap to an alt to group with friends, guildies or even PUGs. Let's make that appealing again. If possible, the bonus should be de-activated/not applied for the relevant characters if the system detects multiple party members from the same IP address, to deter people from exploiting that. Though even if that isn't possible to subvert -- if people go through the trouble of running multiple clients(something I'm still unsure as to why it was ever allowed) -- the pros of more overall incentive to group amongst the community still outweighs this one con. Think about it...Players wanting to add as many people as possible(even the newbies or "weak alts") to raids in order to maximize their exp bonus, has the side effect of ensuring something that should always be in place to begin with in an MMO: inclusion, socializing, and having fun. In DDO's journey, that concept was somewhat left behind, regretfully, and it's time to reinstate it

    4. Change the heroic 1-20 exp requirements so that the 1.9m exp currently required for life #1 is extended to lives 1-9. Lives 10-19 would be 2.85m. Lives 20-49 would require 3.8m. Any subsequent lives would require 4.7m exp. What? An increase in the amount of exp needed to TR you say?! That is preposterous! Hear me out...This would only apply for characters with 50+ more lives. It should feel significantly faster for those with fewer lives to get there going forward and this is one way to achieve this. If it means the 50+ lifers might need to add a quest or ten to their rotation - so be it. Keep in mind, however, that we are getting a new expansion and that means new content. More content = more available exp. And there is already plenty of exp in heroic levels to go around. Together with my previous suggestions with regards to the Stone of Learning and the Grouping Bonus - it should compensate for the increase.

    In addition: Upon reaching life #10 -- the character can be granted an exp pot, slayer pot, and a choice of a +5 BTC tome. The same for reaching life 20, except this time a +6 tome. A +7 for life 30, and +8 for life 50. Of course someone on their 50th life might well have already have used a +8 supreme ability tome, so it would matter less for them, but that's the point. Allowing the tomes to be crunchable for rewards is a reasonable alternative. This would only apply going forward and not to characters who have already achieved these milestones. It's another catch up mechanic and again - that's the point

    Aside from the exp changes -- the TR wings could cease to apply from levels 1-9. Be gilded bronze with 10-19 past lives. Silver with 20-49. Gold for any characters with 50+ lives. And sparkly Platinum for characters with 50+ lives, who also happen to be heroic, racial, & epic completionist. It's just an aesthetic change but players like those and it would fit with the proposed new requirements and new reality of where DDO is compared to when they were first introduced.

    5. Character specific upgrades such as Tomes of Learning, Supreme Ability Tomes, Character bags etc. should have a discount per server if they have already been purchased by a character on that server. So maybe 20% the first time, and then 30, 40, and eventually up to 50% less.


    The above proposals would go some way toward alleviating the huge gap that exists at the moment. It would:

    -Incentivize grouping(always a good thing).
    -Provide new methods of income for SSG in the forms of the Stones of Learning, as well as motivation to invest in alts. More reincarnating also = more potential income(Not everyone likes to farm for the hearts)
    -It would ease new players in, give them a leg up, and retain them to a higher degree. That means more grouping, more people talking about/streaming the game. More potential VIPs/Store users. More friends to be had!
    -Provide meaningful benefits to players sooner, thus making them feel better about where they stand.


    I have more ideas, but let's keep this one brief for now :P
    Last edited by LittleLexi; 08-07-2020 at 06:15 PM.

  20. #160
    Community Member Chai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anuulified View Post
    First post in 7/30, current last one 8/7. 3 ETRs could have completed on your alt. If you are faster then me, 3 TR and ETRs, making that alt "great" again.
    Mahm! Bahth-rewm!
    Quote Originally Posted by Teh_Troll View Post
    We are no more d000m'd then we were a week ago. Note - This was posted in 10/2013 (when concurrency was ~4x what it is today)

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