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Thread: Caster Nerfs

  1. #1
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    Default Caster Nerfs

    Just want to raise awareness of a few things coming tomorrow (!!).

    I don't run PM or divine or others, so am sure there others I am not noticing - so please add.

    From a evocation caster perspective, the three points below are most significant:
    1. Sorcs are losing 2 caster levels in their cores (not included in lamm notes - perhaps due to HC)
    2. Spiral will now be a random buff starting with one element versus fire always (not included in lamm notes - clearly not due to HC and probably needed anyway - the weapon swapping fire sorcs did was "cheese" to begin with)
    3. Reflection of Wave is going from a 20% crit chance bonus to a 5% crit DAMAGE bonus (not included in lamm notes - clearly also not due to HC)

    Of all of the above, I can manage 1 and 2. I am happy about 2 honestly. A little miffed on 1 that there is no benefit to offset in epics like with the warlock eldritch blast when that was nerfed.

    However on #3. I don't even have Reflection of Wave yet, but I am surprised that you would let people invest that much in a weapon upgrade over time only to pull the rug out from under them. 5 schism shards are not easy to get.

    Clearly the intent was to hit the power players across the servers... but seems a bit too late as they all went to the new pally flavor over the last 6 months anyway. The only ones I see in ice sorc are dedicated caster players who put in the time and effort to get Reflection of Wave.

    So, devs, on this topic, what is your thinking?

    Whally
    Last edited by Whaldorf; 06-03-2020 at 08:01 AM.

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    Wow, that's an itty bitty baby nerf. To be commensurate with the new SSG gold standard, casters need to lose 20% damage whenever the spell hits more than one mob, get their cooldowns upped 50%, lose 30% spellpower, and have and extra 2 seconds windup on their alpha strike clicks.

  3. #3
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whaldorf View Post
    . Reflection of Wave is going from a 20% crit chance bonus to a 5% crit chance bonus (not included in lamm notes - clearly also not due to HC)
    Incorrect, it's critical DAMAGE.

    Fire sorc will still have 90% crit chance, the rest will be miles behind. They managed to make casters less varied while trying to fix fire sorc

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    I've spent 2,500 KT runes in order to upgrade Wave. Obviously, not going to use stick after nerf. At least give us option to salvage schizm shards from nerfed items (same applies to Razor longsword, SSG made TWF obsolete).

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but reflection of wave's crit chance doesn't stack with the exceptional you get on the armor/KT raid ring? If that's the case, then reflection was only ever 5% over sharn armor. Losing 5% chance for 5% crit dmg isn't that bad. Small nerf but hardly significant.

    Plus, considering people have been raging for sorc nerfs for over a year, and this is a slap on the wrist, I think we'll be fine.
    Formerly known as Absolute-Omniscience, co-creator of the old DPS calc.

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    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-O View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but reflection of wave's crit chance doesn't stack with the exceptional you get on the armor/KT raid ring? If that's the case, then reflection was only ever 5% over sharn armor. Losing 5% chance for 5% crit dmg isn't that bad. Small nerf but hardly significant.

    Plus, considering people have been raging for sorc nerfs for over a year, and this is a slap on the wrist, I think we'll be fine.
    People are also entirely stupid and largely play at easy difficulties where anyone with a pulse can roflstomp. Thrower, sorc, melee, who cares you can one-hit EE for daaaays.

    Sorc already was iffy in r8+ and will now be moved to the side for.. alchs, doing the exact same dps. But with evasion!

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    Community Member noinfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Incorrect, it's critical DAMAGE.

    Fire sorc will still have 90% crit chance, the rest will be miles behind. They managed to make casters less varied while trying to fix fire sorc
    No it is crit chance.
    Milacias of Kyber

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    The Reality- Those kobolds in Water Works won’t have a chance but nothing else cares-Learn to play your build and all its abilities in actual difficult content, get gear and reaper points in level 30+ content and raids.

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    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noinfo View Post
    No it is crit chance.
    So I actually can confirm it is now CRIT DAMAGE
    https://i.imgur.com/s3mnF4m.png
    If you'd like to see that source, it is here: https://www.ddo.com/en/update-46-patch-2-release-notes

    Please at least read the patch notes before arguing with me over what the patch notes are changing.

  9. #9
    Community Member noinfo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    So I actually can confirm it is now CRIT DAMAGE
    https://i.imgur.com/s3mnF4m.png
    If you'd like to see that source, it is here: https://www.ddo.com/en/update-46-patch-2-release-notes

    Please at least read the patch notes before arguing with me over what the patch notes are changing.
    Or you could actually be specific in what you are talking about. Saying "incorrect its crit damage" by itself implies that the staff was already crit damage and its losing that. It is obviously not would you like me to link the original item? Words are hard right?

    Is it hard to say it was originally crit hit % and they are changing it do a % crit damage increase?
    Milacias of Kyber

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    The Myth- TR will make my character powerful
    The Reality- Those kobolds in Water Works won’t have a chance but nothing else cares-Learn to play your build and all its abilities in actual difficult content, get gear and reaper points in level 30+ content and raids.

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    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noinfo View Post
    Or you could actually be specific in what you are talking about. Saying "incorrect its crit damage" by itself implies that the staff was already crit damage and its losing that. It is obviously not would you like me to link the original item? Words are hard right?

    Is it hard to say it was originally crit hit % and they are changing it do a % crit damage increase?
    Or you could read the patch notes and it'd all make sense initially.

    Generally reading the patch notes is good on a thread about patch notes.

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    Community Member Gilga1's Avatar
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    Astonishing… Dragon breath nerf extinguished the water savant as nuker, now they are killing fire savant nukers.

    I'd be curious to know why ...

    Fire savants will remain among the best farming toons for low skulls endgame, but the few fire nukers left who play r10 (and are not overperforming) will have to change their builds and go back to DC casting.
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    Uber Completionist Capricorpus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-O View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but reflection of wave's crit chance doesn't stack with the exceptional you get on the armor/KT raid ring? If that's the case, then reflection was only ever 5% over sharn armor. Losing 5% chance for 5% crit dmg isn't that bad. Small nerf but hardly significant.

    Plus, considering people have been raging for sorc nerfs for over a year, and this is a slap on the wrist, I think we'll be fine.
    You're wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by noinfo View Post
    No it is crit chance.
    It never ceases to amaze me how invested members of this community are in their inaccurate information. Please consider checking your own facts so the rest of us don't have to do it for you.
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  13. #13
    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilga1 View Post
    Astonishing… Dragon breath nerf extinguished the water savant as nuker, now they are killing fire savant nukers.

    I'd be curious to know why ...

    Fire savants will remain among the best farming toons for low skulls endgame, but the few fire nukers left who play r10 (and are not overperforming) will have to change their builds and go back to DC casting.
    Oh, 100%. Sorc will still oppress anyone running EE - it'll still die before people are in range - but it'll just fail harder in higher skulls. People who cried about sorc being too strong will find nothing changed, and the people who were running *actual* strong sorcs will now just tr into paladin/bear/whatever FOTM exists now.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    Oh, 100%. Sorc will still oppress anyone running EE - it'll still die before people are in range - but it'll just fail harder in higher skulls. People who cried about sorc being too strong will find nothing changed, and the people who were running *actual* strong sorcs will now just tr into paladin/bear/whatever FOTM exists now.
    Correct, they're making adjustments based on the feedback they've been getting from the large percentage of players who don't participate in high skull content while making nuking an even less appealing option in high skulls than it already is.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capricorpus View Post
    Correct, they're making adjustments based on the feedback they've been getting from the large percentage of players who don't participate in high skull content while making nuking an even less appealing option in high skulls than it already is.
    That's been what I've been saying for ages - the sorc nerf is coming, but they have no idea how to do it.
    And here's my proof: this "fix"

  16. #16
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    Removing unique Class and Pre features vs just adjusting gear creep and __power multipliers.

    Hmm familiar, yup, we got Monked again .

  17. #17
    Uber Completionist Capricorpus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulfurnace View Post
    That's been what I've been saying for ages - the sorc nerf is coming, but they have no idea how to do it.
    And here's my proof: this "fix"
    Sorc was absolutely overperforming in low skulls, but it's a shame that they seem to either be unable or unwilling to come up with a solution that doesn't primarily impact the folks who want to play a nuker in R10.

    Both fire savant and water savant were in decent enough places for high end content prior to U45 - they could've benefited from somewhat higher DCs for their damage-dealing spells and the savant trees are garbage, but the class was very much playable as a nuker.

    In U45, sorc lost a lot of its appeal to the top whatever % of players due to two things happening
    - The cooldown of breath was drastically increased, which disproportionately affected water savants due to their lack of native AoE damage; their best AoE spell (otiluke's) is worse than a fire savant's second best AoE spell (dbf)
    - The relative utility of sorc was lessened by melees gaining the ability to deal greatly improved AoE dps and AoE CC

    The intention seems to be to make nuking a thing in low skulls, but not a thing in high skulls. Casual players will still feel that their characters are good when they 1 shot everything in R1, while other casual players will continue to complain about how OP sorc is.

    ___________________________

    It's nice that they toss us the occasional reminder that nobody is interested in listening to serious players, it saves me from wasting a lot of time posting long threads trying to explain why a certain subset of the population isn't a fan of an announced change.
    Last edited by Capricorpus; 06-03-2020 at 05:19 AM.
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    Community Member Soulfurnace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capricorpus View Post
    Both fire savant and water savant were in decent enough places for high end content prior to U45 - they could've benefited from somewhat higher DCs for their damage-dealing spells and the savant trees are garbage, but the class was very much playable as a nuker.

    In U45, sorc lost a lot of its appeal to the top whatever % of players due to two things happening
    - The cooldown of breath was drastically increased, which disproportionately affected water savants due to their lack of native AoE damage; their best AoE spell (otiluke's) is worse than a fire savant's second best AoE spell (dbf)
    Oh, I know. I did 14 lives back to back of sorc (ew)

    Played both fire an ice in r10. Ice had bugger all for AOE - after the DI abilities, prismatic spray was your only attack because otilukes is borderline irrelevant. Was kinda sad.

    I guess they misheard me when I said "only fire/ice are viable because of wave/spiral".
    They were meant to understand "we need to add elec/acid comparable items". Instead they heard "delete r10 sorcs, don't change the underlying issues to prevent sorcs roflstomping easy content"

  19. #19
    Community Member A-O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capricorpus View Post
    You're wrong.
    Not saying that you're wrong and that I'm right, since i don't have the staff. But got anything to back that up with? Since both bonuses are exceptional (talking armor here, not set bonus), they shouldn't stack. But it wouldn't be the first thing that doesn't work as it should.
    Formerly known as Absolute-Omniscience, co-creator of the old DPS calc.

  20. #20
    Uber Completionist Capricorpus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A-O View Post
    Not saying that you're wrong and that I'm right, since i don't have the staff. But got anything to back that up with? Since both bonuses are exceptional (talking armor here, not set bonus), they shouldn't stack. But it wouldn't be the first thing that doesn't work as it should.
    I do have it.

    Not only does it stack, it actually provides a 21% stacking bonus to crit chance as opposed to the 20% listed in the description.
    Last edited by Capricorpus; 06-03-2020 at 06:35 AM.
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