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  1. #1
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    Question I wanted some feedback on this VKF build idea...

    I'm *newer* to DDO and I've been trying to make a good sneaky, dual-wielding VKF, with good Dmg, and trapping skills. I think I got the skills down, but I'm not sure what abilities/ enchantments I should choose, feats, the class progression, etc. I'd like it to be an optimized build for what I'm going for, but because of my limited knowledge, I'm not sure about it.

    Here it is:

    Vistani Ranger
    12/8 Ranger/Rogue
    Chaotic Good Elf


    Level Order

    1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Rogue. . . . . 11. Ranger . . . . 16. Ranger
    2. Ranger . . . . .7. Ranger . . . . 12. Ranger . . . . 17. Rogue
    3. Ranger . . . . .8. Ranger . . . . 13. Ranger . . . . 18. Rogue
    4. Rogue . . . . . 9. Ranger. . . . .14. Ranger. . . . .19. Rogue
    5. Rogue . . . . .10. Ranger. . . . .15. Ranger. . . . .20. Rogue



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt
    . . . . . . . .----
    Strength. . . . .8
    Dexterity . . . 18
    Constitution. . .8
    Intelligence. . 16
    Wisdom. . . . . 14
    Charisma. . . . .8. . .



    Skills
    . . . . .Rg Rn Rn Rg Rg Rg Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rg Rg Rg Rg
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4. 5 .6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Concent . 2 .1 .1 . 1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 . 1. 1 .1. 23
    Disable . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    Hide. . . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    Move Si . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    UMD . . . 4 .1 .1 .1. 1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1 .1. 1 .1. 23
    Diplo . . 4 . . . .1. 1 .2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 .1. 1 .1. 12
    Balance . 4 . . . .1. 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 .1. 1 .1. 10
    Tumble. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .1. 1 .1. .7
    Jump. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    Swim. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .44 .9 .9 11 11 11 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 11 11 11 11



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
    .3. . . . : Dodge
    .6. . . . : Mobility
    .9. . . . : Spring Attack
    12. . . . : Combat Expertise
    15. . . . : Whirlwind Attack
    18. . . . : Sap

    .2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
    .9 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
    14 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elemental


    Spells

    1. Camouflage (8), Pass Without Trace (10)
    2. Cure Light Wounds (12), Protection from Energy (14)
    3. Cure Moderate Wounds (15), Wild Instincts (16)


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Assassin (34 AP)
    • Knife in the Darkness, Dagger in the Back, Assassin's Trick
      1. Toxin Affinity III, Sneak Attack Training, Stealthy III
      2. Poison Strikes: Heartseeker, Venomed Blades III, Bleed Them Out III, Sneak Attack Training, Damage Boost III
      3. Sneak Attack Training
      4. Execute, Sneak Attack Training
      5. Assassinate, Measure the Foe III

    Vistani Knife Fighter (23 AP)
    • Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
      1. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
      2. Vistani Knife Training, Bleeding Cuts, Mist Stalker
      3. Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Deadly Blades
      4. Double Daggers

    Elf (14 AP)
    • Elven Accuracy
      1. Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Keen Senses III
      2. Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Nothing Is Hidden III
      3. Greater Dragonmark of Shadow

    Tempest (9 AP)
    • Shield of Whirling Steel
      1. Improved Reaction II, Improved Defense III
      2. Improved Parry II, Improved Dodge I

  2. #2
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    Welcome to the game and forums!

    I like the flavor build idea, but IMO you're better off going with a) pure Ranger, b) pure Rogue or c) pure Monk Right now, Ranger gives you a few (fairly underwhelming) spells and the TWF line. 8 Rogue gives you assassination, a few sneak attack dice and a lot of skills

    a) Pure ranger will get sacrifice some sneak for quite a bit more damage. You could still use the stealth skill, then close with Spring Attack so that archers and casters don't bop you while you're charging. Especially in heroics, your damage will be significantly better because you're also not locked into daggers, which don't have as good a crit profile as, say, Longswords or Scimitars

    b) Assassin has *really* good synergy with Vistani. Assassinate scales with Rogue level, so your DC will be much higher. You won't be reliant on spellpoints. You'll have more skills. Your crit profile will be excellent, thanks to Lethality. This is probably the most optimal Vistani build, though it does have a learning curve

    I did a pure Assassin (heroic only) life about a year ago and had a *lot* of fun with it. I occasionally failed Assassinate DCs, but the offhand hit would usually succeed. I can't imagine trying to assassinate in heroic elite or R1 with ~10 fewer DC

    c) Ninja Spy monk isn't particularly good these days, but it does have the bones of a sneaky, stabby, deceptive character. It wouldn't be optimal, but I think it's close to what you're going for with the current multiclass. No assassinate, but lots of doublestrike between VKF and T5 NS. Should be fine for heroics, might taper a bit in epics

  3. #3
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Whirlwind Attack is pretty bad for most builds, but especially TWF particularly when you could use Dance of Death instead. Unarmed and maybe 2H builds are the only times I consider WWA.

    Also it's not clear what you want different from the usual rogue 20 Assassin / VKF builds like this one. Yeah, ranger provides free feats and some spells. But you didn't invest much into ranger trees; and you kinda squandered those free feats to take WWA + pre-reqs instead.

    EDIT: also CON 8 but WIS 14? lol no
    Last edited by unbongwah; 05-31-2020 at 11:39 AM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    Whirlwind Attack is pretty bad for most builds, but especially TWF particularly when you could use Dance of Death instead. Unarmed and maybe 2H builds are the only times I consider WWA.

    Also it's not clear what you want different from the usual rogue 20 Assassin / VKF builds like this one. Yeah, ranger provides free feats and some spells. But you didn't invest much into ranger trees; and you kinda squandered those free feats to take WWA + pre-reqs instead.
    This. I started to write up what the build should look like and checked out the VKF unbongwah posted and it's spot on. The thing you need to think about is the what gives you the most bang for the buck, so look at the core 5 and 6 enhancements and tier 5 enhancements to see what gives you the most. For an assassin, you can clearly see you want the core and tier 5 from assassin over anything you get from ranger or Vistani, so you build in that direction.

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the input! I liked what everyone said, and have been reading up on things like Physical and magical resistance rating, dodge bonus, etc. So, I've come up with a level of rogue and the rest ranger and spent APs in Vistani and tempest (so I could get some of the tempest's bonuses to PRR and MRR along with some AC bonuses, etc for more survivability). Also, is their any way I could fit in any weapon imbuement anywhere, I think that would add more dps... right? also, is a build like this largely inferior to VKF unbongwah talked about, or is it good too?

    Here it is:

    Vistani Ranger
    19/1 Ranger/Rogue
    Chaotic Good Elf


    Level Order

    1. Rogue . . . . . 6. Ranger. . . . .11. Ranger. . . . .16. Ranger
    2. Ranger . . . . .7. Ranger . . . . 12. Ranger . . . . 17. Ranger
    3. Ranger . . . . .8. Ranger . . . . 13. Ranger . . . . 18. Ranger
    4. Ranger . . . . .9. Ranger . . . . 14. Ranger . . . . 19. Ranger
    5. Ranger . . . . 10. Ranger . . . . 15. Ranger . . . . 20. Ranger



    Stats
    . . . . . . . .28pt
    . . . . . . . .----
    Strength. . . . .8
    Dexterity . . . 18
    Constitution. . 12
    Intelligence. . 16
    Wisdom. . . . . 10
    Charisma. . . . .8. . .



    Skills
    . . . . .Rg Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn
    . . . . . 1 .2 .3 .4 .5 .6 .7 .8 .9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    Disable . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Search. . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Spot. . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Hide. . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Move Si . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    UMD . . . 4 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
    Concent . 2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .21
    Diplo . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Balance . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Tumble. . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .4
    Jump. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    Swim. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
    . . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
    . . . . .44 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9 .9



    Feats

    .1. . . . : Dodge
    .3. . . . : Two Weapon Defense
    .6. . . . : Eschew Materials
    .9. . . . : Mobility
    12. . . . : Spring Attack
    15. . . . : Weapon Focus: Piercing
    18. . . . : Precision

    .2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
    .6 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Goblinoid
    11 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
    16 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elemental


    Spells

    1. Camouflage (5), Pass Without Trace (7), Resist Energy (15), Longstrider (19)
    2. Cure Light Wounds (9), Protection from Energy (11), Barkskin (17), Cat's Grace (20)
    3. Cure Moderate Wounds (12), Wild Instincts (13), Neutralize Poison (20), Remove Disease (20)
    4. Cure Serious Wounds (15), Freedom of Movement (16), Mass Longstrider (20)


    Enhancements (80 AP)

    Vistani Knife Fighter (45 AP)
    • Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Knife Master
      1. Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
      2. Vistani Knife Training, Bleeding Cuts, Mist Stalker, Weapon Versatility, Haste Boost III
      3. Vistani Knife Training, Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades
      4. Vistani Knife Training, Celerity, Mist Stalker, Double Daggers
      5. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Blessed Blades, Vendetta

    Tempest (26 AP)
    • Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows
      1. Improved Reaction III, Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
      2. Improved Parry III, Whirling Blades
      3. Critical Mastery II, Whirling Blades
      4. Elaborate Parry III, Whirling Blades

    Elf (9 AP)
    • Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity
      1. Keen Senses III
      2. Nothing Is Hidden III
    Last edited by UvronSwiftfoot; 05-31-2020 at 04:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    If you want to go with daggers yout best bet is pure Rogue with Assassin and Vistani Knife Fighter trees like the build unbongwah posted earlier.

    If you want to go with Ranger and a level of Rogue for trapping skills then i would go with something like Tempest Trapmonkey for new players.

    Good Luck!

  7. #7
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Welcome to the game!

    Quote Originally Posted by UvronSwiftfoot View Post
    I liked what everyone said, and have been reading up on things like Physical and magical resistance rating, dodge bonus, etc...
    I'm guessing that you come from a D&D background, and have a lot of experience building your own characters.

    Believe me when I tell you that doesn't apply here. Not... one... little... bit.

    And "reading up" won't get the job done, at least not right away. WAAY too much to internalize, to balance, to understand at a deeper mathematical level, to get it all in a couple surf-sessions on the Wiki.

    What you want to do is believe the players who posted above - all are vets w/ a solid rep as "knowing how to build a winning character". Which, sorry to tell you, your builds are not.

    Take a quick read of my "Basics of DDO", link in my sig. Sums it up.

    Have fun!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by UvronSwiftfoot View Post
    I'm *newer* to DDO and I've been trying to make a good sneaky, dual-wielding VKF, with good Dmg, and trapping skills. I think I got the skills down, but I'm not sure what abilities/ enchantments I should choose, feats, the class progression, etc. I'd like it to be an optimized build for what I'm going for, but because of my limited knowledge, I'm not sure about it.
    Welcome, and yes, creating builds is a lot of fun. That said, have you ever take a build, any, to level 20 at least? I ask because I noticed your build only specifies 28 stat points, which suggests you have not. Try something basic at first as you learn the ropes of the game, enhancements, and all, and set yourself a goal of attaining 1750 Total Favor to unlock 32-point builds. What is more, if you do this, and then reincarnate for a second build you will actually have 34 points to distribute, as well as a far better grasp of this game's particularities.

    When you reach level 20, consider spending some DDO points to unlock Epic Destinies too. These are the heart and soul of builds beyond level 20, with a world of new powers and choices to add. What is more, use the Wiki to also research some items that you feel will enrich your character. Are daggers your key item? Then see what daggers are best and where you might find them. Etc.

    Have fun!

  9. #9
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Like Coffey said, what you have is basically a variant on the Tempest Trapmonkey, which has been an old DDO standby for a very long time. My original thread is almost 10 years old and it wasn't even the first one. In an MMO which is pretty much dominated by Flavors of the Month, very few builds have that kind of longevity.

    So that's the good news. The main downside to a Vistani / Tempest build is there's a lot of overlap between the trees. Since tier-5 Tempest is generally regarded as a lot stronger than tier-5 VKF, ideally have something like 39 Tempest / 41 VKF. That doesn't leave any wiggle room with your APs, though. And Tempests have more interesting options for weapons these days than daggers IMO; whereas Assassins are pretty much pigeon-holed into daggers now, which is why VKF+Assassin works so well (despite the redundant crit bonuses).

    That said, there's nothing mechanically wrong with this combo; it's certainly better than your first build IMO. However your feats are...questionable. You definitely want Improved Critical Piercing Weapons at level 9. And I would take Precision at either level 3 or 12, depending on whether you want Spring Attack at 6 or 12. And Eschew Materials is a bad feat; all it does is save you a few inventory slots.

    Finally ranger 19 (or rogue 2) doesn't add much to this build, so consider splashing a third class. I like barbarian for the +10% runspeed, but fighter for the extra feat is also an option.
    Code:
    Vistani Tempest
    18/1/1 Ranger/Barbarian/Rogue
    True Neutral OR Chaotic Good Elf
    
    
    Level Order
    
    1. Rogue           6. Ranger         11. Ranger         16. Ranger
    2. Ranger          7. Ranger         12. Ranger         17. Ranger
    3. Ranger          8. Ranger         13. Ranger         18. Ranger
    4. Ranger          9. Ranger         14. Ranger         19. Ranger
    5. Barbarian      10. Ranger         15. Ranger         20. Ranger
    
    
    Stats
                   28pt     32pt     Level Up
                   ----     ----     --------
    Strength         8        8       4: DEX
    Dexterity       18       20       8: DEX
    Constitution    12       12      12: DEX
    Intelligence    16       16      16: DEX
    Wisdom          10        8      20: DEX
    Charisma         8        8      24: DEX
                                     28: DEX
    
    Skills
             Rg Rn Rn Rn Bn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
             ------------------------------------------------------------
    Heal      2  3  1  1     1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Disable   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Search    4  1  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Spot      4  1  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    UMD       4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Open Lo   4     1  1      ½  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  21
    Balance   4                                                            4
    Jump      4                                                            4
    Swim      4                                                            4
    Tumble    4                                                            4
    Haggle    4                                                            4
             ------------------------------------------------------------
             44  9  9  9  7  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9
    
    
    Feats
    
     1        : Dodge
     3        : Mobility
     6        : Spring Attack
     9        : Improved Critical: Piercing
    12        : Precision
    15        : Quicken Spell
    18        : Empower Healing Spell
    21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic   : Two Weapon Defense
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
    28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target
    29 Destiny: Deific Warding
    30 Epic   : Epic Reflexes OR Watchful Eye
    30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane
    
     2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
     7 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
    12 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    17 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elemental
    
    
    Enhancements (80 AP)
    
    Vistani Knife Fighter (41 AP)
    
    • Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Quick Reflexes, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Blade Master
      1. Vistani Knife Training I, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Acrobatic III, Rapid Slash
      2. Vistani Knife Training II, Bleeding Cuts, Mist Stalker II, Haste Boost III
      3. Vistani Knife Training III, Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker III, Deadly Blades, Dexterity
      4. Vistani Knife Training IV, Celerity, Mist Stalker IV, Dexterity
    Tempest (39 AP)
    • Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows, Whirlwind
      1. Improved Reaction III, Improved Defense I, Whirling Blades
      2. Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Sprint Boost I
      3. Storm Dancer, Improved Mobility III
      4. Storm Tempest, Elaborate Parry III, The Growing Storm III
      5. Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III
    Leveling Guide
    1. Ass0 Knife in the Darkness; Vis0 Knife Expertise; Vis1 Rapid Slash
    2. DS0 Far Shot; DS1 Stealthy I, II, III
    3. DS1 Tendon Cut I; DS2 Improved Weapon Finesse; Vis1 Vistani Knife Training I; Vis1 Undead Hunter
    4. Vis0 Knife Juggler; Vis2 Haste Boost I, II, III
    5. Vis2 Bleeding Cuts; Vis3 Deadly Blades
    6. Vis0 Quick Reflexes; DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost I, II, III
    7. Vis2 Vistani Knife Training II; Vis3 Fan of Knives
    8. DS0 Sneak Attack; DS0 Exposing Strike; Vis3 Vistani Knife Training III
    9. Vis4 Choose One: Double Daggers; Vis4 Vistani Knife Training IV
    10. Vis4 Celerity; Vis1 Mist Stalker
    11. Vis2 Mist Stalker II; Vis3 Mist Stalker III
    12. Vis4 Mist Stalker IV; Vis0 One With Blades; Vis5 Vistani Knife Training V
    13. Vis5 Vendetta; Vis5 Mist Stalker V
    14. Reset All Trees
      • Tempest: Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows
        1. Improved Reaction III, Improved Defense I, Whirling Blades
        2. Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Sprint Boost I
        3. Storm Dancer, Improved Mobility III
        4. Storm Tempest, Elaborate Parry III, The Growing Storm III
        5. Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III
      • Vistani Knife Fighter: Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Quick Reflexes
        1. Vistani Knife Training I, Undead Hunter, Rapid Slash
        2. Vistani Knife Training II, Bleeding Cuts, Haste Boost III
        3. Fan of Knives, Deadly Blades
    15. Vis3 Vistani Knife Training III; Vis0 One With Blades; Vis4 Celerity
    16. Vis4 Vistani Knife Training IV; Vis1 Mist Stalker
    17. Vis2 Mist Stalker II; Vis1 Acrobatic I
    18. Vis3 Mist Stalker III; Vis0 Vistani Fortune; Vis4 Mist Stalker IV
    19. Vis3 Dexterity; Vis4 Dexterity
    20. Tem0 Whirlwind; Vis1 Acrobatic II, III; Vis0 Blade Master
    Since it might be confusing: at low levels I used Dagger in the Back (Assassin) and Improved Weapon Finesse (DWS) to provide DEX to-hit and damage with daggers. Later on we switch to Tempest+Graceful Death to provide both. Exactly when to switch is up to you; you can do so any time after character level 8 / ranger level 6. I delayed it until level 14 to make the leveling plan less confusing. [I prototyped this build with Shadarkai who start at level 15 with 56 APs, then "walked it back" to regular elf.]
    Last edited by unbongwah; 06-01-2020 at 10:38 AM.
    Major build threads: Axesinger / Dwarven Defender / Drow Ninja / Drow Paladin / Elven Ranger / Monkcher / Sacred Vanguard / Cleric Domains / Kundarak Brigade / Iconic Builds
    My Build Index: a Motley Menagerie of Original Rapscallions, Pugilists, and Gimps!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouCarioca View Post
    have you ever take a build, any, to level 20 at least?
    I have not... yet

    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    That said, there's nothing mechanically wrong with this combo; it's certainly better than your first build IMO. However your feats are...questionable. You definitely want Improved Critical Piercing Weapons at level 9. And I would take Precision at either level 3 or 12, depending on whether you want Spring Attack at 6 or 12. And Eschew Materials is a bad feat; all it does is save you a few inventory slots.

    Finally ranger 19 (or rogue 2) doesn't add much to this build, so consider splashing a third class. I like barbarian for the +10% runspeed, but fighter for the extra feat is also an option.
    Code:
    Vistani Tempest
    18/1/1 Ranger/Barbarian/Rogue
    Elf
    
    
    Level Order
    
    1. Rogue           6. Ranger         11. Ranger         16. Ranger
    2. Ranger          7. Ranger         12. Ranger         17. Ranger
    3. Ranger          8. Ranger         13. Ranger         18. Ranger
    4. Ranger          9. Ranger         14. Ranger         19. Ranger
    5. Barbarian      10. Ranger         15. Ranger         20. Ranger
    
    
    Stats
                   28pt     32pt     Level Up
                   ----     ----     --------
    Strength         8        8       4: DEX
    Dexterity       18       20       8: DEX
    Constitution    12       12      12: DEX
    Intelligence    16       16      16: DEX
    Wisdom          10        8      20: DEX
    Charisma         8        8      24: DEX
                                     28: DEX
    
    Skills
             Rg Rn Rn Rn Bn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn Rn
              1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
             ------------------------------------------------------------
    Heal      2  3  1  1     1  2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Disable   4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Search    4  1  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Spot      4  1  1  1     2  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    UMD       4  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  23
    Open Lo   4     1  1      ½  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  1  21
    Balance   4                                                            4
    Jump      4                                                            4
    Swim      4                                                            4
    Tumble    4                                                            4
    Haggle    4                                                            4
             ------------------------------------------------------------
             44  9  9  9  7  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9  9
    
    
    Feats
    
     1        : Dodge
     3        : Mobility
     6        : Spring Attack
     9        : Improved Critical: Piercing
    12        : Precision
    15        : Quicken Spell
    18        : Empower Healing Spell
    21 Epic   : Overwhelming Critical
    24 Epic   : Two Weapon Defense
    26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    27 Epic   : Epic Damage Reduction
    28 Destiny: First Blood OR Elusive Target
    29 Destiny: Deific Warding
    30 Epic   : Epic Reflexes OR Watchful Eye
    30 Legend : Scion of: Ethereal Plane
    
     2 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
     7 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
    12 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
    17 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Elemental
    
    
    Enhancements (80 AP)
    
    Vistani Knife Fighter (41 AP)
    
    • Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Quick Reflexes, One With Blades, Vistani Fortune, Blade Master
      1. Vistani Knife Training I, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Acrobatic III, Rapid Slash
      2. Vistani Knife Training II, Bleeding Cuts, Mist Stalker II, Haste Boost III
      3. Vistani Knife Training III, Fan of Knives, Mist Stalker III, Deadly Blades, Dexterity
      4. Vistani Knife Training IV, Celerity, Mist Stalker IV, Dexterity
    Tempest (39 AP)
    • Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows, Whirlwind
      1. Improved Reaction III, Improved Defense I, Whirling Blades
      2. Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Sprint Boost I
      3. Storm Dancer, Improved Mobility III
      4. Storm Tempest, Elaborate Parry III, The Growing Storm III
      5. Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III
    Leveling Guide
    1. Ass0 Knife in the Darkness; Vis0 Knife Expertise; Vis1 Rapid Slash
    2. DS0 Far Shot; DS1 Stealthy I, II, III
    3. DS1 Tendon Cut I; DS2 Improved Weapon Finesse; Vis1 Vistani Knife Training I; Vis1 Undead Hunter
    4. Vis0 Knife Juggler; Vis2 Haste Boost I, II, III
    5. Vis2 Bleeding Cuts; Vis3 Deadly Blades
    6. Vis0 Quick Reflexes; DS2 Melee/Range Power Boost I, II, III
    7. Vis2 Vistani Knife Training II; Vis3 Fan of Knives
    8. DS0 Sneak Attack; DS0 Exposing Strike; Vis3 Vistani Knife Training III
    9. Vis4 Choose One: Double Daggers; Vis4 Vistani Knife Training IV
    10. Vis4 Celerity; Vis1 Mist Stalker
    11. Vis2 Mist Stalker II; Vis3 Mist Stalker III
    12. Vis4 Mist Stalker IV; Vis0 One With Blades; Vis5 Vistani Knife Training V
    13. Vis5 Vendetta; Vis5 Mist Stalker V
    14. Reset All Trees
      • Tempest: Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death, Deflect Arrows
        1. Improved Reaction III, Improved Defense I, Whirling Blades
        2. Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Sprint Boost I
        3. Storm Dancer, Improved Mobility III
        4. Storm Tempest, Elaborate Parry III, The Growing Storm III
        5. Dual Perfection, Cuts: A Thousand Cuts III, Dance of Death III
      • Vistani Knife Fighter: Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Quick Reflexes
        1. Vistani Knife Training I, Undead Hunter, Rapid Slash
        2. Vistani Knife Training II, Bleeding Cuts, Haste Boost III
        3. Fan of Knives, Deadly Blades
    15. Vis3 Vistani Knife Training III; Vis0 One With Blades; Vis4 Celerity
    16. Vis4 Vistani Knife Training IV; Vis1 Mist Stalker
    17. Vis2 Mist Stalker II; Vis1 Acrobatic I
    18. Vis3 Mist Stalker III; Vis0 Vistani Fortune; Vis4 Mist Stalker IV
    19. Vis3 Dexterity; Vis4 Dexterity
    20. Tem0 Whirlwind; Vis1 Acrobatic II, III; Vis0 Blade Master
    Thanks for making my idea work!

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