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Thread: Bows!

  1. #1
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Default Bows!

    Firstly I've played longbow builds for 10+ years I loved the playstyle and could deal with its pitfalls (woo). But as the game progressed consistently these weapons, enhance tree's, gear, and playstyle was just completely ignored. Currently I haven't played a bow build since THTH forced the playstyle to non existence with mechanics in end game raids, currently on an alchemist dagger build but really haven't played in over a month. Short raids + long cooldowns and slow attack speed, do not work.

    If you really want to fix it here is some suggestions:
    AA:
    • 1: Elemental arrows, change these to scale to 150-200% ranged power. (Notes: You haven't made gear for an Arcane archer since tower of despair, having to fit in spell power when your gear sets legit block each other out is next to impossible)
      2: Improved Elemental Arrows, scaled to ranged power. Baseline should be 2d100 of the element on a crit +1d100 per epic level to somewhat match what some current end game gear does.
      3: Final Strike, this ability is a joke. There is currently 2 versions of this that do separate things. Make both versions apply the 20% doubleshot and boost the damage of this ability quite a bit, have the damage seperate from the base damage to prevent ridiculous numbers from adrenaline. (Notes: Elf AA gave 20% doubleshot, bows have some of the slowest attack speeds that should be made up by ranged power + doubleshot.)
      4: Arrow of slaying, yea this ability.... Revert it to be 500 evil damage, scale it to ranged power and crit multiplier. On a vorpal hit give it a chance to instant kill (Scaled off of dex or wisdom whichever is higher). Notes: changing it to a all bypassing evil damage will separate it from adrenaline thus making it weaker, but should be what its name implies an arrow that slays, so give it the insta kill. It costs SP and has a longer cooldown then assassinate as is.
      5: Other primary imbues: Allow dex to be the DC (whichever is higher). If you need a reason: A dexterous ranger should be able to pin point a mobs weak points and target them there, or be wise enough to imbue their arrows with such powers.
      6: All +spell powers should be changed to +ranged power or +doubleshot

    Deepwood:
    • 1: More ranged power!
      2: New point blank shot enhancement: While within the original 15 meters, they get an additional +1/2/3W to PBS damage (so +2/3/4w while within 15 meters).

    Bows and feats:
    • 1: Improved precise shot: Bows should NOT suffer the 20% damage loss here.
      2: Movement penalty: The 20% penalty should be applied here, -4 to-hit is just not a penalty.
      3: Shot on the Run: Should reduce ^ penalty by 10% as well as what it currently does.
      4: Manyshot: Cut the cooldown of this ability in half, you design raids to be shorter then 10 minutes but this ability suffers due to 2 min cooldown with only 20 second up time. While others AB can almost have up to 100% up time.
      5: Hide in plain sight: Add + damage or +1 w for standing still after x seconds. (only 1 stack, lost on movement)
      6: Composite bows: Whatever happened to these?


    Finally yes adrenaline/hunts end should work on bows. Thats not exactly the problem. The problem is them working with such a powerful +250xcrit mult damage ability like arrow of slaying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Added even later: Ignore this add, I am the dumb.

  2. #2
    Community Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Yamani View Post
    Firstly I've played longbow builds for 10+ years I loved the playstyle and could deal with its pitfalls (woo). But as the game progressed consistently these weapons, enhance tree's, gear, and playstyle was just completely ignored. Currently I haven't played a bow build since THTH forced the playstyle to non existence with mechanics in end game raids, currently on an alchemist dagger build but really haven't played in over a month. Short raids + long cooldowns and slow attack speed, do not work.

    If you really want to fix it here is some suggestions:
    AA:
    • 1: Elemental arrows, change these to scale to 150-200% ranged power. (Notes: You haven't made gear for an Arcane archer since tower of despair, having to fit in spell power when your gear sets legit block each other out is next to impossible)
      2: Improved Elemental Arrows, scaled to ranged power. Baseline should be 2d100 of the element on a crit +1d100 per epic level to somewhat match what some current end game gear does.
      3: Final Strike, this ability is a joke. There is currently 2 versions of this that do separate things. Make both versions apply the 20% doubleshot and boost the damage of this ability quite a bit, have the damage seperate from the base damage to prevent ridiculous numbers from adrenaline. (Notes: Elf AA gave 20% doubleshot, bows have some of the slowest attack speeds that should be made up by ranged power + doubleshot.)
      4: Arrow of slaying, yea this ability.... Revert it to be 500 evil damage, scale it to ranged power and crit multiplier. On a vorpal hit give it a chance to instant kill (Scaled off of dex or wisdom whichever is higher). Notes: changing it to a all bypassing evil damage will separate it from adrenaline thus making it weaker, but should be what its name implies an arrow that slays, so give it the insta kill. It costs SP and has a longer cooldown then assassinate as is.
      5: Other primary imbues: Allow dex to be the DC (whichever is higher). If you need a reason: A dexterous ranger should be able to pin point a mobs weak points and target them there, or be wise enough to imbue their arrows with such powers.
      6: All +spell powers should be changed to +ranged power or +doubleshot

    Deepwood:
    • 1: More ranged power!
      2: New point blank shot enhancement: While within the original 15 meters, they get an additional +1/2/3W to PBS damage (so +2/3/4w while within 15 meters).

    Bows and feats:
    • 1: Improved precise shot: Bows should NOT suffer the 20% damage loss here.
      2: Movement penalty: The 20% penalty should be applied here, -4 to-hit is just not a penalty.
      3: Shot on the Run: Should reduce ^ penalty by 10% as well as what it currently does.
      4: Manyshot: Cut the cooldown of this ability in half, you design raids to be shorter then 10 minutes but this ability suffers due to 2 min cooldown with only 20 second up time. While others AB can almost have up to 100% up time.
      5: Hide in plain sight: Add + damage or +1 w for standing still after x seconds. (only 1 stack, lost on movement)
      6: Composite bows: Whatever happened to these?


    Finally yes adrenaline/hunts end should work on bows. Thats not exactly the problem. The problem is them working with such a powerful +250xcrit mult damage ability like arrow of slaying.
    Its just sad that enchantment tree that empower bow only come from ranger tree while u can get enchantment tree that empower crossbow from rogue, artificer and inquisitive. Anyway my suggestion for AA elemental arrow is to make them an AOE. They don't have to increase the dice roll or scaling if they were to made into AOE. No matter how fast the arrow shoot, I'm sure it still not comparable to a sorcerer OPness. At least it ease the pain for being an archer.

  3. #3
    Community Member
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    Jun 2006
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    AA
    1. Scaling 200% with RP is probably still worse than 100% Spellpower even if you just pop a spellpower diamond in your bow and a RL belt. Spellpower is more than 2x cheaper than Ranged Power overall, especially if you pair AA with an actual caster build, like say an Elf FvS light/fire nuker.

    2. 12d100 on crit scaling 200% on RP seems a little OP...think its enough just to say Elemental Arrow base damage needs to scale better overall into Epic

    3. Just toss out the whole concept and start from scratch with something new. Its never been able to do what it was intended, both from an under-the-hood mechanics perspective, or an actual practical-use scenario.

    You're right about DS+power, bows are going to be slow just because of animation limitations, so they need a lot more per-hit damage scaling.

    4. I think this could be reimagined into something more unique and creative too, not just a ranged Assassinate - like Falconry already has

    5. DEX is currently underserved so I'm actually OK with being able to make a DEX-based AA.


    DWS
    1. Be careful, DWS is not bow-only. Anything you put here will be accessible to Inquis and GXB too.

    2. I think passive 4W at point blank might be a bit strong for Heroic. Also thematically at odds with a Sniper tree.

    Feats etc.
    2. 20% to-hit while moving is a dealbreaker for late game. 10% would still be. It'd make Bows a non-starter.

    4. Just reducing the CD is boring. Make it work like LD, give it -2 sec CD on vorpal hits. Give it more value if you're active, not just cherry picking your alpha strikes.

    6. Composite bows are just longbows that can use STR for damage...that's what the Bow Strength feat does, which Rangers get autogranted.

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