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  1. #381
    Nerino & Daniele's Souls Malex's Avatar
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    So in the end the only change to the crappy celestial pact was a slight change on hoky aura (no mention on the fact it triggers spell resistance on friendly target?)
    No change on lv 15 ability nor the spells provided?

    I don't get why feedback on celestial was basically ignored

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malex View Post
    So in the end the only change to the crappy celestial pact was a slight change on hoky aura (no mention on the fact it triggers spell resistance on friendly target?)
    No change on lv 15 ability nor the spells provided?

    I don't get why feedback on celestial was basically ignored
    The active changed significantly (duration more than doubled, cc upgraded to paralysis, debuff changed from 10 mrr to 10 prr + 10 mrr) but the majority of the actionable suggestions were for things I am either technically unable to do (such as grant Religious Lore) or unable to do for other reasons I will not elaborate on (such as provide positive healing).
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The active changed significantly (duration more than doubled, cc upgraded to paralysis, debuff changed from 10 mrr to 10 prr + 10 mrr) but the majority of the actionable suggestions were for things I am either technically unable to do (such as grant Religious Lore) or unable to do for other reasons I will not elaborate on (such as provide positive healing).
    Semi-speculating, but I suspect that the reason Lynnabel is choosing not to spell out is WotC licensing rules. I remember when Warlock first released there was discussion about granting lots of Temp HP vs true healing, and one of the devs confirmed D&D masters didn't want Warlocks to use positive energy. I think I've seen a similar response to a different topic from Lyn where again someone was asking for something previously ruled-out by WotC (might have been being flexible with deities?).

    Either way I don't expect Lynnabel will wish to comment, but thought it might be interesting for those who remember (or don't)!

  4. #384
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiseFreelancer View Post
    Semi-speculating, but I suspect that the reason Lynnabel is choosing not to spell out is WotC licensing rules.
    VERY likely.


    Quote Originally Posted by WiseFreelancer View Post
    I remember when Warlock first released there was discussion about granting lots of Temp HP vs true healing, and one of the devs confirmed D&D masters didn't want Warlocks to use positive energy.
    I had forgotten this. Still, I think it perfectly reasonable to expect a celestial patron might allow their Warlock to cast cure spells of some sort or resurrect the dead.

    I realize this is not SSG's call so, in reality, I'm arguing with WotC. Guess where that will lead? Yep, nowhere.
    "A wise person chooses the right road; a fool takes the wrong one." - Author unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Hi Welcome

  5. #385
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    Default Nerfing New Content

    I apologize that my post is several days behind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alttab View Post
    May I suggest to be more loose for the celestial and abyssal and make them a little more "powerful" with some suggestions we gave and let the players use them and have fun and see if they are unbalanced and then nerf them if too much strong afterward.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Players hate it when we do that.
    As one of those players who have complained when a favorite new enhancement was nerfed when it proved too powerful, I'll weigh in.

    Perhaps the question here is why players hate it when this happens. IMO, the frustrating part is when there is a new and interesting enhancement or ability that you build a character around, and after getting well into the character's life the ability is taken away with the result that the build is crippled or even broken. At a minimum I wish I'd known the ability was still in beta stage and I had just volunteered to play test it without knowing it.

    Some people will point out that this is what live tests on Lamannia are for. The problem is we don't want to wait for a full test on new content. As soon as it's announced I know I would love to try it out on my main characters. So doubtless normal human impatience is partly to blame here. Besides, it probably requires a larger number of people going at new content for all trouble spots to emerge than what you get on a test server.

    And I'm not talking about old exploits like Arcane Archer imbues on Crossbows: we were warned well in advance. But that actually proves my point: it came with a "use at your own risk" warning. I had done just that -- used the imbues on a GXbow build -- and when the exploit was "fixed" I was perfectly happy to hop over to DWS. I had adopted the build with a planned fallback.

    In other words, if the devs str not sure the balance is right, and want to see how the player base develops it, just give us a heads up so we can plan accordingly. Then it's up to me to test it, and I can plan for a fallback should it prove to be something you need to adjust.

    Next, give us more warning when you plan on imposing a nerf. In other words, announce there's a balance issue, but don't roll the fix one week after the announcement. Please give us at least a few weeks to get the to-be nerfed character out of its current life. (I know, this doesn't help casual players.)

    I suppose another alternative is hand out LR Hearts for those who test something new if and when you nerf it.

    Please note that I am all for balanced classes, so your motivation is something I'm fully on board with. I'm just asking for a bit of consideration for early adopters.

    Thanks!
    "I didn't change my mind, It changed all by itself" – Luna

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The active changed significantly (duration more than doubled, cc upgraded to paralysis, debuff changed from 10 mrr to 10 prr + 10 mrr) but the majority of the actionable suggestions were for things I am either technically unable to do (such as grant Religious Lore) or unable to do for other reasons I will not elaborate on (such as provide positive healing).
    Lynnabel does the spell still check Spell Resistance on allies? I can't find any update on what was actually changing for Holy Aura and currently (on live) it's a trash tier spell due to it being buggy and simply not working. You said you would fix it and idea, some obviously over the top, but we haven't heard on what was being done.

    Using the sacred channel is perfectly fine, Paladins already get high levels of defensive stats from their enhancements.
    Last edited by palladin9479; 06-01-2020 at 01:54 PM.

  7. #387
    Community Member Shedrakzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The active changed significantly (duration more than doubled, cc upgraded to paralysis, debuff changed from 10 mrr to 10 prr + 10 mrr) but the majority of the actionable suggestions were for things I am either technically unable to do (such as grant Religious Lore) or unable to do for other reasons I will not elaborate on (such as provide positive healing).
    Hey Lynnabel, since my last suggestion was technically unfeasible, is it possible that you can change Celestial or even Fey and/or Infernal spell selections to better mirror their 5e counterparts? Given is it very clear that the 5e pacts pretty much are the basis upon which DDO warlocks are built, minus spells that obviously don't exist in DDO. However, since the time of the original three warlock pacts, there have been new spells or spells that have been updated/reworked that could fill the thematic void of spells from the tabletop Warlocks and could breath new life into the old pacts.

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arkat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by WiseFreelancer View Post
    I remember when Warlock first released there was discussion about granting lots of Temp HP vs true healing, and one of the devs confirmed D&D masters didn't want Warlocks to use positive energy.
    I had forgotten this. Still, I think it perfectly reasonable to expect a celestial patron might allow their Warlock to cast cure spells of some sort or resurrect the dead.
    Apparently, in 5th Edition, the Celestial Warlock CAN use positive energy to cast Cure spells!

    According to the 5th Ed. Core rulebook, "Xanathar's Guide to Everything," Celestial Warlocks get the "cure wounds" spell at first-level in their expanded spell list!

    So there's no Lore reason why Celestial Warlocks in DDO couldn't have Mass Cure Moderate as their 6th level expanded spell list spell.
    Last edited by Arkat; 06-02-2020 at 10:41 AM.
    "A wise person chooses the right road; a fool takes the wrong one." - Author unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Hi Welcome

  9. #389
    Nerino & Daniele's Souls Malex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The active changed significantly (duration more than doubled, cc upgraded to paralysis, debuff changed from 10 mrr to 10 prr + 10 mrr) but the majority of the actionable suggestions were for things I am either technically unable to do (such as grant Religious Lore) or unable to do for other reasons I will not elaborate on (such as provide positive healing).
    Yes I know.
    But that doesn't address the issue of it being just a much, much worse hurl though heck.

    Also, there are a lot of suggestions with changing the spells in this thread (not with positive healing, but with spells that a not bad or in the wrong slot, like fom which should be lv4, not lv9)
    Like other pacts get rend the soul, ottos iresistable dance, greater creeping cold, and such while celestial get... Fom? At that level? Something some items have as a static thing, and that you can get from eternal flask, is the most powerful spell of that pact... And it's still the best one. Magic circle against evil? Bless? Prayer?
    Even clerics don't cast any of those.

    I like the theme. It's OK having some of those spell. But we *only* have those.
    Move fom on place of prayer, remove prayer that nobody casts due to so short duration, and give another lv9 spell. The wizard lv9 electric one could be an option. Or storm of vengeance could. Or even mordenkainen disfunction, if you want to stay on theme and not give any damaging spell

    The most thematic one would probably be sunburst though, since it actually destroys undead
    Last edited by Malex; 06-02-2020 at 11:59 AM.

  10. #390
    Community Member Yamani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The active changed significantly (duration more than doubled, cc upgraded to paralysis, debuff changed from 10 mrr to 10 prr + 10 mrr) but the majority of the actionable suggestions were for things I am either technically unable to do (such as grant Religious Lore) or unable to do for other reasons I will not elaborate on (such as provide positive healing).
    Which paralysis? Currently 2 in game: paralyzing(non helpless) and ghouls touch(helpless).
    Quote Originally Posted by Cordovan View Post
    Added even later: Ignore this add, I am the dumb.

  11. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The active changed significantly (duration more than doubled, cc upgraded to paralysis, debuff changed from 10 mrr to 10 prr + 10 mrr) but the majority of the actionable suggestions were for things I am either technically unable to do (such as grant Religious Lore) or unable to do for other reasons I will not elaborate on (such as provide positive healing).
    Is it possible to make the Celestial's level 15 Special Ability into an AoE? Having a stacking AoE debuff would be something cool and unique (AFAIK) and it'd be particularly useful in certain cases like Project Nemesis or Slave Lords end-fight.

    As far as the effect vs undead, it's already a weaker version of Undeath to Death so it seems reasonable to at least make it comparable.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  12. #392
    Community Member Alttab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The active changed significantly (duration more than doubled, cc upgraded to paralysis, debuff changed from 10 mrr to 10 prr + 10 mrr) but the majority of the actionable suggestions were for things I am either technically unable to do (such as grant Religious Lore) or unable to do for other reasons I will not elaborate on (such as provide positive healing).
    This looks great, thanks Lynnabel

  13. #393
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    The update notes are posted and .... no indication of them fixing Holy Aura's broken Spell Resistance on allies checking. It still lists blind as being the debuff used and it's effects, while being sacred are still just a measly +4 each. There might be more that we don't know about but as it this is more like a level 5 spell upgrade to Magic Circle Against Evil.

  14. #394
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    Sad to see none of the spell lists for the new pacts were revisited...even SOF would have marginally been better than bless, since bless is useful thru maybe level 3 and in the Spire of Validus quest, otherwise useless....other spells in the list are also fairly useless...

    Was really looking forward to tring into a Celestial Pact build if the spells had been looked at again, but as of now, going to stick with fiend.

    Saal :/
    "Fools said I, you do not know. Silence like a cancer grows, hear my words that I might teach you, take my hand that I might reach you, but my words like silent raindrops fell...."-Paul Simon "Day after day, we caught no breath or motion. As idle as a painted ship upon a painted ocean."--Coleridge

  15. #395
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    Default Carceri Storm Bug

    I'm sure someone will start a bug thread, but for now I'll just drop this here.

    It's just a display issue, but I rolled up a test toon to try out spells and abilities. The Carceri pact spell Ice Storm works, but the Vfx are missing: no Ice Storm visuals.

    Oh, and another visual spell effect bug: Carceri Eldricht Blast shoots green acid Vfx, not cold. But again, the actual damage is correct.

    Edit:
    The Carceri Eldricht Blast Vfx are correct now. I think I just needed to restart the client. I like the look too, the Carceri blast effect is pretty cool looking.
    Last edited by SocratesBastardSon; 06-06-2020 at 01:42 PM.
    "I didn't change my mind, It changed all by itself" – Luna

  16. #396
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    I know that it's live now, and kinda bugged so it still needs to be adjusted... I understand that he pact damage saves were done so that each one targeted a different save, that way with 6 pacts, there are 2 for each save. That is fine. But imo it makes more sense for lightning to be vs reflex, and cold and negative to be vs fort or will (I can see arguments for fortitude vs cold as well as will vs cold, same with negative).

    Just my belated thoughts.

    Also, when creating a Celestial Pact warlock, the description says you "must be good", but the alignment selection is treating it as "must not be chaotic".
    Last edited by vryxnr; 06-04-2020 at 10:42 PM.

  17. #397
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    Holy Aura still does Spell Resistance check on allies for the buff, so effectively useless.

    Celestial Pact damage is saving against reflex instead of will... so not even a benefit there.

    Basically the entire Celestial pact is useless and mind as well just be deleted.

  18. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Losing 3d6 light damage is still pretty huge. Edrich blast is 6d6 force/alignment damage at level 20 and 13d6 at lvl 30. So losing that extra light damage is 33% reduction in your dps against negative energy immune mobs (which is like half of ravenloft and sharn) at 20 and ~20% at 30. That's far from trivial.
    You will only lose that light damage if you are doing an abyssal ES. ES in any other pact will still be in celestial form even if not using aura, therefore only losing whatever PRR their armor gets them from 10 BAB. So it won't affect old warlock builds so much.

    But if you really want to make an abyssal ES, yeah, you are losing quite a bit. So it's probably better to go another route.
    Last edited by o2t4f; 06-06-2020 at 09:56 AM.

  19. #399
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    Abyss pact should not be compatible with the Enlighted spirit for lore reasons. But people keep complaining "...but if I want an undead with capstone with major form and float celestial with aura, but sometimes raged option and also demon but light and negative and melee... bahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Please.

    Make alignment restrictions to the tree. very unpopular but lore safe. At the same time, Abyss should get a minor inclination towards soul eater (aura that debuffs fortitude saves like Barbarian or Favs Aura) and/or u could amplify self-healing a bit since they get only death aura like draining a portion of negative damage inflicted. THAT WOULD BE VERY COOL for a drain life spell stereotype found in many games, poorly implemented here thought Steal Lifeforce. Not doing dmg in undead will be overlooked if u could heal for everything else.

    The celestial pact is very lackluster, as it should synergize enlighten spit a bit, u could place electric dmg on melee hits somewhere, or a bard like an aura that gives spellpower to allies for better support capability.

  20. #400
    Community Member irnimnode's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cocomajobo View Post
    Description
    Your Patron is a demonic entity from the realm of Carceri, otherwise known as Tartarus. The bitter cold and freezing winds will chill you to your bones, but if you can master the power granted to you, great things will surely come your way...

    Base Info
    • Pact Dice Element Cold
    • Pact Save Bonus Reflex
    • Alignment Restriction No Restriction

    Bonus Spells
    • 1st Level Spell Merfolk's Blessing
    • 2nd Level Spell Gust of Wind
    • 3rd Level Spell Sleet Storm
    • 4th Level Spell Ice Storm
    • 5th Level Spell Niac's Biting Cold
    • 6th Level Spell Greater Creeping Cold

    Special Abilities
    • Warlock Level 6 Special Ability Frozen Footsteps: +10% Cold Absorption
    • Warlock Level 15 Special Ability Absolute Zero: Attempt to lock a single enemy in ice permanently. Enemies must succeed on a Will save vs DC (15 + Warlock level + Charisma Mod) or be forever trapped in solid ice. Enemies made of fire will instead be destroyed with no save. Does not affect bosses.


    Currently Known Bugs
    • N/A
    There was an up grade Monday night around 11:30. What was it for? and when will we find out?
    Last edited by irnimnode; 06-16-2020 at 06:38 PM.

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