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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedrakzo View Post
    Fiend is the most effective by virtue of spending 16AP in Tiefling and stripping fire immunity/making mobs take 5% extra damage from fire.

    This would be followed by Great Old One. After that, technically Celestial should come up in third by merit of how many mobs have electric resist compared to the will save.

    After that, it'd be Fey as a reflex save, followed by Carceri due to the combo of Reflex save and Cold being the most commonly resisted elemental damage type, and finally Abyss at the bottom of the pack.

    Because having 1/3 to 1/2 of the mobs in the game outright being immune, or being healed (though this part seems to have been changed for the moment), by your pact die is not exactly ideal, and even then, with it being a fort save, chances are the damage will be halved most of the time.
    I find reflex to be a worse target then fort due to SSG giving evasion to everything made in the past year or two. Neither fort nor will have a "screw you" feat that gets handed out like candy on Halloween to monsters.

    Right in negative energy damage being useless on a large chunk of monsters in the game, at least PM had a way to strip that immunity from undead but not constructs.
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  2. #362
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by palladin9479 View Post
    I find reflex to be a worse target then fort due to SSG giving evasion to everything made in the past year or two. Neither fort nor will have a "screw you" feat that gets handed out like candy on Halloween to monsters.

    Right in negative energy damage being useless on a large chunk of monsters in the game, at least PM had a way to strip that immunity from undead but not constructs.
    This makes me wonder about /4 Wizard on Abyss pact builds. But since it's Warlock 15 for the negative aura stuff, that's probably too much of a dip...
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    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
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    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seljuck View Post
    What I was talking, was r8-10. On that difficulty level you need all possible survivability you can get if you want be useful.
    Oh, sorry, I misread when you said

    Quote Originally Posted by Seljuck
    90% of warlocks in game.
    Eldritch aura is weak and is used only in sporadic situations.. like in king forest portal slayer. Any oriented player who wants to keep the largest possible dps uses Eldritch Cone and Burst/Blast if needed.

    With proposed change, every warlock in game who is focused on running content on higher difficulty then normal or hard will need to chose..
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Seljuck
    If you drop cone for aura, how you want not to be hit by mobs if you need come closer to them to actually do any dmg??
    Yeah, was why I said R6(ish) thru R10, insta's. I don't want to get hit at that point, but before that (R5 and lower), I want as many mobs around me as possible taking my aura and burst/blast, the insta I can target while doing that, and to say nothing of the group damage. Usually the packs are dead at that point and it's on to the next room giving tentacles time to cycle, at least a bit. Also other groupmember(s) have mass cc.

    I agree with all the further points you make about higher skull tactics and dynamics.

    As for heroics, I see no point in running them any higher than a couple skulls or so, there's just not much reason to do so. I'm only 1 and done for the most xp before I move to the next quest anyhow (apart from tsc and the other usual suspects). RXP is so much better run at cap for the first run bonuses etc. For those heroics, I use cone as it's just a matter of running forward watching all the mobs die. By about 17, a combination of gear dropoff and no more points offering dps, combined with mob hp and resists and so on scaling means I see cone becoming less effective, but by that time it's too late for anyone to stop me hitting 20 ;p That cone damage drop continues into low epic reaper imo, but since lots of those dungeons are not pack of mobs, single target damage can be a better choice. Past a certain point I just use an alt account 30 to level thru epics anyhow. Yes, a warlock.

  4. #364
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    This makes me wonder about /4 Wizard on Abyss pact builds. But since it's Warlock 15 for the negative aura stuff, that's probably too much of a dip...
    At that point, you are taking the Wizard shroud anyway because it's just better.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedrakzo View Post
    Fiend is the most effective by virtue of spending 16AP in Tiefling and stripping fire immunity/making mobs take 5% extra damage from fire.

    This would be followed by Great Old One. After that, technically Celestial should come up in third by merit of how many mobs have electric resist compared to the will save.

    After that, it'd be Fey as a reflex save, followed by Carceri due to the combo of Reflex save and Cold being the most commonly resisted elemental damage type, and finally Abyss at the bottom of the pack.

    Because having 1/3 to 1/2 of the mobs in the game outright being immune, or being healed (though this part seems to have been changed for the moment), by your pact die is not exactly ideal, and even then, with it being a fort save, chances are the damage will be halved most of the time.
    Have you tested them against each other, or are you speculating? It seems a bit more subtle than that:
    • Tiefling takes 16AP, and unless they changed it, the scorch SLA has twice the CD of the immunity debuff duration. I don't know if you can debuff via scrolls, but those cannot be quicked. Juggling this is a potential DPS loss, and it requires significant racial APs to not lose out from loss of other enhancements.
    • Fort saves are generally higher than the rest, and Reflex has evasion. If your DCs aren't great, Will seems like a much better choice.
    • Elemental and negative pacts get 15-20% extra spell power from Ravenloft belts.
    • You can also make a Fey-scoundrel and theoretically get extra elemental spell power with sonic on a reflex save. This seems good in theory if you have the racial APs and DCs to shore up its weaknesses.


    As for immunities, I think Sonic>Acid>Lightning >> rest still holds?

    Basically, Will (GoO/Celestial) is good for few-lifers, Tief/Scoundrel builds might be better for those w/ racial AP and high DCs. For blaster builds, the other combinations are significantly behind.

    Abyss might be more survivable, and good DPS if you have decent DCs. It has three big flaws, which is poor damage against undead, unmitigatable light vulnerability and all negative damage/healing itemization is for wizards. Currently it seems more trouble than it's worth, but maybe the changed spell will balance it out. We don't want everybody running around as undead either.
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 05-29-2020 at 11:55 AM.

  6. #366
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    Have you tested them against each other, or are you speculating? It seems a bit more subtle than that:
    • Tiefling takes 16AP, and unless they changed it, the scorch SLA has twice the CD of the immunity debuff duration. I don't know if you can debuff via scrolls, but those cannot be quicked. Juggling this is a potential DPS loss, and it requires significant racial APs to not lose out from loss of other enhancements.
    • Fort saves are generally higher than the rest, and Reflex has evasion. If your DCs aren't great, Will seems like a much better choice.
    • Elemental and negative pacts get 15-20% extra spell power from Ravenloft belts.
    • You can also make a Fey-scoundrel and theoretically get extra elemental spell power with sonic on a reflex save. This seems good in theory if you have the racial APs and DCs to shore up its weaknesses.
    Yeah, honestly I expect Celestial to be at the top when this comes out, because electric against will is so good, for the reasons you listed.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    Yeah, honestly I expect Celestial to be at the top when this comes out, because electric against will is so good, for the reasons you listed.
    GoO's Acid/Will is still technically better I think, but Celestial has some really nice spells that will make many warlocks switch. I for one say good riddance to the green warlock farts.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alttab View Post
    Just a question in terms of monster immunities, which pact damage do you think is the most effective? (If we consider all the quests)

    Edit: Mostly trying to compare acid and electricity pact damages
    Fire is the most effective. Tieflings can bypass fire resistance/immunity/healing and cause their blasts/bursts/auras/etc. to do full damage.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsonfball View Post
    Fire is the most effective. Tieflings can bypass fire resistance/immunity/healing and cause their blasts/bursts/auras/etc. to do full damage.
    But the save is vs fort, that most mobs have high.
    GOO save vs Will, the lowest save stat for a majority of mobs.
    And these https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Stone_Shoes
    give you a higher SP potential
    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    While it's not difficult to figure out, it's a mindless, stupid and eye-bleeding grind. It's not too hard to figure out that is not what this game needs right now. 2-3 million karma ok, there's some pain for your gain. But really, the EPL's are not worth the pain of 6 million XP in off destinies/sphere's.
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  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunan View Post
    But the save is vs fort, that most mobs have high.
    GOO save vs Will, the lowest save stat for a majority of mobs.
    And these https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Stone_Shoes
    give you a higher SP potential
    Having played both, I found that I typically do more damage as a fiend pact. Especially when you take into account creatures with immunity to fire or acid.

  11. #371
    The Hatchery Cernunan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsonfball View Post
    Having played both, I found that I typically do more damage as a fiend pact. Especially when you take into account creatures with immunity to fire or acid.
    More creatures are immune to fire then acid.
    The tiefling scorch costs 16 ap in tiefling tree, unless you have lots of RR points, that's a ton of lost dps enhancements.
    And scorch is usable on 1 target with a 10 sec cool down for the immunity bypass.
    You can achieve a higher Spell power with acid then fire.
    My experience playing both differs
    Last edited by Cernunan; 05-30-2020 at 10:20 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    While it's not difficult to figure out, it's a mindless, stupid and eye-bleeding grind. It's not too hard to figure out that is not what this game needs right now. 2-3 million karma ok, there's some pain for your gain. But really, the EPL's are not worth the pain of 6 million XP in off destinies/sphere's.
    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Profit quantity has been prioritized above product quality.

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cernunan View Post
    And scorch is usable on 1 target with a 10 sec cool down for the immunity bypass.
    This is incorrect. It hits everything in its path. I line up all of the immune mobs in the area, scorch them, and then blast them with my cone.

    Edit: This is from the wiki "A jet of roaring flame bursts from your outstretched hand, dealing 1d6+2 fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6+20 at caster level 10) to targets in its path."

  13. #373
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    Quote Originally Posted by carsonfball View Post
    This is incorrect. It hits everything in its path. I line up all of the immune mobs in the area, scorch them, and then blast them with my cone.
    I stand corrected
    Quote Originally Posted by Drwaz99 View Post
    While it's not difficult to figure out, it's a mindless, stupid and eye-bleeding grind. It's not too hard to figure out that is not what this game needs right now. 2-3 million karma ok, there's some pain for your gain. But really, the EPL's are not worth the pain of 6 million XP in off destinies/sphere's.
    Quote Originally Posted by PermaBanned View Post
    Profit quantity has been prioritized above product quality.

  14. #374
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Teifling scorch only makes mobs immune for a few seconds though, not the full 10 second cooldown. It's nice for a quick scorch+energy burst, but it will get you maybe 1/3 of your pact damage. Iron golems are still painful as you still have to turn off pact damage (at least on higher reaper levels the healing from any fire is crazy high).
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  15. #375
    Community Member vryxnr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alttab View Post
    Just a question in terms of monster immunities, which pact damage do you think is the most effective? (If we consider all the quests)

    Edit: Mostly trying to compare acid and electricity pact damages
    For me, immunities aren't nearly as annoying as monster who get healed by an element type. Plus I'm biased as I'm doing racials right now, so I'm doing lots of 1-20, and you can't gain non-tiefling racials while a tiefling, so scorch immunity/heal bypass isn't as big of a lure for me atm. In that sense, if I'm going for low effort builds, I'd rather take reflex save enemies vs having to turn my pact on and off depending on the enemy.

    Fire heals Iron Golems and Magma Elementals and Cinderspawn and Red Dream Scourges and Summoned Fire Elementals.
    Acid heals Clay Golems and Arcane Oozes and Green Dream Scourges.
    Lightning heals Flesh Golems and Ancient Iron Defenders.
    Negative heals Undead.
    Cold heals Frostmarrow Skeletons and White Dream Scourges.
    Sonic does not heal any enemies atm afaik.

  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by vryxnr View Post
    I'd rather take reflex save enemies vs having to turn my pact on and off depending on the enemy.
    Your game, your "fun", but for me the rarity of needing to turn off my Pact damage is a minor and uncommon hiccup in an otherwise strong run. Plus, you clearly know the problem targets, so you're ahead of the curve on that.

    I ran Taming the Flames recently on a Fiend 'lock at only 2 levels over, dreaded it - but Force carried the day without a big issue. (I found a Radiant/Radiance sceptre w/ a slot, added a Force augment - money. Only better if it were crafted.)

    Many of the others are so rare as to be almost(!) a non-issue.

    But you do you!

  17. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by vryxnr View Post
    Negative heals Undead.
    The negative pact damage will not heal undead though.

  18. #378
    Community Member Shedrakzo's Avatar
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    Could the idea of granting Religious Lore at the 1/2 progression similar to bards to the Celestial warlock's Celestial Attunement be considered? This would give them additional synergies with multiclassing, epic destinies, and gear choices at endgame.

    It'd also be nice if the same idea could be extended to Fey pact warlocks with granting them Wilderness Lore.

  19. #379
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shedrakzo View Post
    Could the idea of granting Religious Lore at the 1/2 progression similar to bards to the Celestial warlock's Celestial Attunement be considered? This would give them additional synergies with multiclassing, epic destinies, and gear choices at endgame.

    It'd also be nice if the same idea could be extended to Fey pact warlocks with granting them Wilderness Lore.
    What an interesting idea.
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