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  1. #281
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I have time to revamp Holy Aura for this patch if you all can throw me some concrete suggestions on the direction to take it
    Divine spell buffs in general are really lacking and have not scaled well over the years, though the revised Righteous Command and Angelskin spells for Paladin are now great and key incentives to taking as many Paladin levels as possible since they scale by caster level.

    A combination of offensive and defensive bonuses would be my recommendation. Perhaps an AoE bonus to PRR/MRR/Melee Power/Ranged Power/Universal Spell Power per 1 or 2 caster levels. Matching the revised Paladin spells, it should last 1 minute per caster level with a max caster level of 20. If it's powerful enough to warrant it, you could make it an actual aura (thus the spell name) that requires party members to be within range of the caster to receive the benefits. You could then also proc the Blindness aspect to nearby mobs with every "pulse" (20 seconds?). If it's a one-time buff cast, then the bonuses could be slightly lower than if it is a true aura.

    Ideally, the bonuses would stack with those from Cleric Domains and Beacon of Hope's "Hope" buffs, as well as the Paladin's revised spells.

    It would also be fantastic if you could bump the duration of Prayer, as it's one of the few buffs that is worth waiting for someone to cast. But at 6 seconds per caster level, it just doesn't last long enough.

  2. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWCarter View Post

    It would also be fantastic if you could bump the duration of Prayer, as it's one of the few buffs that is worth waiting for someone to cast. But at 6 seconds per caster level, it just doesn't last long enough.
    Not only that but Prayer doesn't work with extend spell anymore, neither does Righteous Commands. At CL20 prayer is stuck at a 2 min duration, the same as trances so I end up recasting them at the same time.

  3. #283
    Community Member Rob_65270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Part of me wants to just lock Abyssal Pact warlocks out of the entire tree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mindos View Post
    Do it! (are we still voting?)
    +2
    Last edited by Rob_65270; 05-27-2020 at 08:51 AM.
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  4. #284
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    I'd note that the alternative to stacking bonuses is legitimately level appropriate non-stacking bonuses. Which for deflection AC is currently +17 and for resistance saves is +16 (And those will certainly jump up with feywild). So for a short duration lvl 8 spell it should probably be +1/CL each since they should be better than a single item effect.

    Small non-stacking bonuses are pointless and annoying. Better to remove them entirely.
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  5. #285
    Community Member Rob_65270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Tradition shcmadition, we literally can't break the action system by allowing for more than one active toggle within the same action group. To make matters worse, DDO does not handle simultaneous genus overrides and allowing someone to be both an Undead and in Wild Shape or - even worse - another Shroud would seriously donk up their character.
    Makes sense to me.
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  6. #286
    Community Member Talon_Moonshadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    I think you might be mistaken. Most are saying Abyssal pact is going to be one of the weaker pacts as is, as negative energy damage is one of the more commonly resisted damage types in the game, with every undead and construct being simply immune to it. Also, without a good way to heal, as death aura isn't enough on it's own, the undead form is more of a detriment than a boon. Pair that with a lack of gearing support for charisma based negative energy damage and we have a very weak pact as is. The fact that one of the class enhancement tree's main power sources is completely incompatible with it is more like the last nail in the coffin as opposed to a reason to nerf ES.
    So, are we saying that they can't turn on their aura and get healed by their pact damage?

    or since that would be overpowered, we are messing up Enlightened Spirit for existing Warlocks.

    This is my complaint.

    I admit I haven't read all of this thread, but that is what I am getting from it.
    I gave up a life of farming to become an Adventurer.

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    ..., but I honestly think the solution is to group with less whiny people.

  7. #287
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    So, are we saying that they can't turn on their aura and get healed by their pact damage?

    or since that would be overpowered, we are messing up Enlightened Spirit for existing Warlocks.

    This is my complaint.

    I admit I haven't read all of this thread, but that is what I am getting from it.
    Pact aura doesn't target yourself. This has been tested and confirmed. The proposed ES change is to allow most of the lvl 18 and 20 cores to not be based on the form given at 18, but as passive effects. The exception would be the floating and the 3d6 light damage. Those would still be tied to the form. I do not see how any of this would nerf current ES.

  8. #288
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    Pact aura doesn't target yourself. This has been tested and confirmed. The proposed ES change is to allow most of the lvl 18 and 20 cores to not be based on the form given at 18, but as passive effects. The exception would be the floating and the 3d6 light damage. Those would still be tied to the form. I do not see how any of this would nerf current ES.
    The nerf is that some of the ES cores might get tied to aura such that they can't be used with other eldrich shapes.

    Quote Originally Posted by pjstechie View Post
    theres actually a lot of stuff that doesnt care if you are in aura or not. I count only 6 of the abilities that only do something with the aura

    this is literally how i build my warlock. This tree is more than just about the aura. Its about adding some defense with offense. Do i lose some stuff by not being in aura? sure. I lose +3 ac, +15 hps, 13 prr, 13 mrr by virtue of what action points i spend here.

    but heres what i get in return: displacement, a nice temp hp clicky, medium armor proficiency, a permanent shield effect, 3d4+3d6 light damage (that scales) to my blasts, 30 light power, 12 universal power, all in one resist energy spell, immunity to fear, immune to a bunch of knockdowns. oh, and the capstone.

    saying this tree is all about the aura is like saying tainted scholar is about confusion or soul eater is about soul eater/consume. Are they major facets of the tree? yes, but I dont lose ANYTHING in those trees by being in one stance or the other.

    Enlightened spirit does a good job of having incentive to be in Aura but ALSO allowing great use from other blasting forms. And at the end of the day, blasting forms makes a lot of difference for me when it comes to how the class plays and feels.

    By tying the capstone to specific blasting form (and this would again be the only one) you are in many ways taking my choice out of the equation. Who cares if heavily investing in this tree and using cone is less optimal? it's more fun for me and it matches my playstyle better.

    I'm not exaggerating: I would probably stop playing warlocks with this change.
    I used this same strategy of a blasting ES lock for hardcore season 1 where I leveled to 30 mostly solo (90%+). It was really nice because it combined the amazing durability of ES without going full toilet tier DPS with aura. Also being able to kite properly increased overall survivability more than some minor bonuses from aura.
    Last edited by SerPounce; 05-27-2020 at 09:12 AM.
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  9. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    I do not see how any of this would nerf current ES.
    Me neither, but if I'm missing something please let me know so we can change course before release :P
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  10. #290
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Core 18: Major Form Toggle: When enabled, you float above the ground, gain Feather Falling, are immune to most knockdown effects, and your Eldritch Blasts gain 3d6 Light damage. Passive: Your Eldritch Aura now affects enemies every 2 seconds.

    Capstone: +2 CON, +2 CHA, +20% Competence bonus to Maximum HP, +10 Universal Spellpower, +20 Light Spellpower. While your Eldritch Aura is enabled, you gain full Base Attack Bonus, +10 Melee Power, and +10 Ranged Power.
    For those out of the Loop, this is the latest from Lynn about possible ES changes. The form restriction, the thing that is exclusive with abysslock, is FF, knockdown immune and 3d6 Light damage. The stance restriction is only on the lvl 20, and only grants full BAB (only relevant to aura users anyway) and 10 MP and RP (also only relevant to aura users). As it is, as per Lynn's most recent revision. There is no possible way ES is nerfed... Either that or I'm blind as heck.

  11. #291
    Community Member Rob_65270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    .. Either that or I'm blind as heck.
    I must be blind too lol.
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  12. #292
    Community Member Rob_65270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    The nerf is that some of the ES cores might get tied to aura such that they can't be used with other eldrich shapes...
    Since when has the aura ever been tied to the blast shapes? Always thought the two were entirely different.
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  13. #293
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_65270 View Post
    Since when has the aura ever been tied to the blast shapes? Always thought the two were entirely different.
    Huh? Eldritch aura is a blast shape...
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  14. #294
    Community Member Rob_65270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talon_Moonshadow View Post
    So, are we saying that they can't turn on their aura and get healed by their pact damage?

    or since that would be overpowered, we are messing up Enlightened Spirit for existing Warlocks.

    This is my complaint.

    I admit I haven't read all of this thread, but that is what I am getting from it.
    What I've gotten from the thread is folks are obsessed with tieing Abyssal Pact with Enlightened Spirit tree. Seemingly forgetting that we can run in Tainted Scholar and Soul Eater.
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  15. #295
    Squirrel Enthusiast Lokeal_The_Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Me neither, but if I'm missing something please let me know so we can change course before release :P
    Why does enlightened spirit's celestial spirit need to be a greater form?

    The knockdown immunity is very hard to notice, feather falling augments are minimum level 4, and floating above the ground is what exactly beyond purely cosmetic? Additionally, pretty sure there are ways to make up for that missing 3D6 that are simply too easy.

  16. #296
    Community Member Rob_65270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Huh? Eldritch aura is a blast shape...
    Huh, lol, Totally had missed that lol.
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  17. #297
    Community Member Rob_65270's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alttab View Post
    Just bringing back the celestial warlock a bit here lol, is it possible for the level 15 special ability to make the debuff to reduce the MRR and PRR by 10 ?
    And I really think some AoE should be tied to this ability, so maybe it could also add a spell to warlock spellbook: Mass Cure Light Wounds?
    I think the Celestial Spirit needs to be Light/Radiant damage then Electrical and needs more offense spells. I do like the idea of adding a healing spell.
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  18. #298
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    For those out of the Loop, this is the latest from Lynn about possible ES changes. The form restriction, the thing that is exclusive with abysslock, is FF, knockdown immune and 3d6 Light damage. The stance restriction is only on the lvl 20, and only grants full BAB (only relevant to aura users anyway) and 10 MP and RP (also only relevant to aura users). As it is, as per Lynn's most recent revision. There is no possible way ES is nerfed... Either that or I'm blind as heck.
    Full BAB also means PRR. SO this will be a nerf if you use ES but don't always use aura. Also more was tied to aura in some of the proposals, and it's hard to determine exactly what is the current plan and what's just spitballing until the OP changes.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

  19. #299
    Community Member Phoenicis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_65270 View Post
    I must be blind too lol.
    The issue was never nerfing ES, it was that Abyssal pact was locked out of the last two cores of ES due to all the effects were tied to the CS form conflicting with the undead form in Abyssal pact.

    Lynnabel making most of the effects for the last two cores either passive or tied to the aura cleared that conflict.

  20. #300
    Squirrel Enthusiast Lokeal_The_Flame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The reason I don't want to do that is twofold:

    One is no other Warlock enhancement calls out a pact by name.

    Two is that out of all of the pacts, the one that's least thematic and most clashing with a tree about becoming a celestial is a pact about becoming an Undead. Part of me wants to just lock Abyssal Pact warlocks out of the entire tree, but I imagine that would be a little unpopular, to put it mildly :P

    I am actually more okay with just putting most of the bonuses as always-on in the capstone, and leaving one or two things tied to the Aura. Say, the BaB (because you can't actually use your attack bonus in other stances anyway, so no problems here) and the melee/ranged power (also can't be used in other stances so again no problems)? That way the capstone still upgrades the Aura a bit, most everyone else gets what they want otherwise, and there's still a choice of Abyssal or Celestial without needing to name the Abyssal Pact in any of the tree.
    How about

    "Ultimate Enlightenment: +2 CON, +2 CHA. While you take on a greater form, you gain +20% Competence Bonus to Maximum HP, full Base Attack Bonus, +10 Melee Power, +10 Ranged Power, +10 Universal Spell Power, and +20 Light Spell Power."

    The minimum required level for training this capstone ability locks out multiclass abuse potential and you really do not have anything to worry about through any of the epic destiny trees, universal trees, or racial trees in terms of anything that could make this an overpowered solution.... additionally you won't be calling out any pacts by name!

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