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  1. #261
    Community Member Alttab's Avatar
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    Just bringing back the celestial warlock a bit here lol, is it possible for the level 15 special ability to make the debuff to reduce the MRR and PRR by 10 ?
    And I really think some AoE should be tied to this ability, so maybe it could also add a spell to warlock spellbook: Mass Cure Light Wounds?

  2. #262
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    I think you might be mistaken. Most are saying Abyssal pact is going to be one of the weaker pacts as is, as negative energy damage is one of the more commonly resisted damage types in the game, with every undead and construct being simply immune to it. Also, without a good way to heal, as death aura isn't enough on it's own, the undead form is more of a detriment than a boon. Pair that with a lack of gearing support for charisma based negative energy damage and we have a very weak pact as is. The fact that one of the class enhancement tree's main power sources is completely incompatible with it is more like the last nail in the coffin as opposed to a reason to nerf ES.
    Negative healing is one of the stronger forms of self healing for mid reaper, and it's not all that dependent on the PM tree. Sure PM gives some negative amp and spellpower, but it's 95% from gear by endgame. So I could see abyssal ES being extremely durable in lower difficulties. It will fall apart at some skull level though as self healing gets nerfed and damage goes up. A high reaper tank needs to be all-in defense with a healer, not a hybrid.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

  3. #263
    Community Member Stravix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SerPounce View Post
    Negative healing is one of the stronger forms of self healing for mid reaper, and it's not all that dependent on the PM tree. Sure PM gives some negative amp and spellpower, but it's 95% from gear by endgame. So I could see abyssal ES being extremely durable in lower difficulties. It will fall apart at some skull level though as self healing gets nerfed and damage goes up. A high reaper tank needs to be all-in defense with a healer, not a hybrid.
    while 75 NHAmp isn't a ton at the end of the day, pair that with the lack of any healing other than normal death aura and you are gonna have issues. You don't have Neg burst, or even lesser death aura. That severely limits your healing potential.

  4. #264
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stravix View Post
    while 75 NHAmp isn't a ton at the end of the day, pair that with the lack of any healing other than normal death aura and you are gonna have issues. You don't have Neg burst, or even lesser death aura. That severely limits your healing potential.
    I'm not sure how much the other stuff really matters, but you're right that no negative energy burst his a big drawback also.


    It certainly doesn't seem like something you should have to "trade off" huge nerfs to core enhancements in order to get. I definitely agree with that.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

  5. #265
    Community Member Shedrakzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Core 18: Major Form Toggle: When enabled, you float above the ground, gain Feather Falling, are immune to most knockdown effects, and your Eldritch Blasts gain 3d6 Light damage. Passive: Your Eldritch Aura now affects enemies every 2 seconds.

    Capstone: +2 CON, +2 CHA, +20% Competence bonus to Maximum HP, +10 Universal Spellpower, +20 Light Spellpower. While your Eldritch Aura is enabled, you gain full Base Attack Bonus, +10 Melee Power, and +10 Ranged Power.
    Like others here, I'm glad you were willing to listen to feedback about the situation and make changes that help.

    Is there any chance we could possibly pull the 3d6 light damage out of Celestial Spirit's toggle? Perhaps put it in the T5 Beacon since this is one of the less often picked T5s? Or if not, is it possible to code a multiselector option with a 'Darkened Spirit' option that changes this damage to Evil or Negative energy (honestly, preferably evil since warlock has no innate immunity stripper) when using Channel the Abyss?

    My only issue with the compromise is that the 3d6 damage is substantial when you're using the aura, as the 2 second CD tick rate is slower than any of the other blast shapes, combined with the fact an Abyss warlock's pact damage is going to be negated a lot at endgame with no way to strip immunity like a PM. Not saying warlocks should have the stripping, but keeping their enhancement tree's damage theme would be nice.

  6. #266
    Founder & Super Hero Arkat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Core 18: Major Form Toggle: When enabled, you float above the ground, gain Feather Falling, are immune to most knockdown effects, and your Eldritch Blasts gain 3d6 Light damage. Passive: Your Eldritch Aura now affects enemies every 2 seconds.

    Capstone: +2 CON, +2 CHA, +20% Competence bonus to Maximum HP, +10 Universal Spellpower, +20 Light Spellpower. While your Eldritch Aura is enabled, you gain full Base Attack Bonus, +10 Melee Power, and +10 Ranged Power.
    Thank you.

    This looks fine.
    Last edited by Arkat; 05-26-2020 at 05:02 PM.
    "A wise person chooses the right road; a fool takes the wrong one." - Author unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Hi Welcome

  7. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post

    Names and such are set in stone for a variety of reasons I can't get into, apologies.
    Ah. IP conditions imposed by the licensor (WotC). I see.

    It would really be nice if they'd let Eberron be Eberron, Sharn expansion notwithstanding.
    "A wise person chooses the right road; a fool takes the wrong one." - Author unknown

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    Hi Welcome

  8. #268
    Community Member MrChipinator's Avatar
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    Abyss will ultimately be a joke/flavor pact option, I don't personally mind because the core of Warlock is still solid. Without a total overhaul Abyss will be relegated to 1-20 at best, there simply isn't enough there to warrant a serious consideration for endgame.

    Carceri will likely be pigeon-holed to Reflection of Wave in order to be viable, but at least it will have more presence as an offensive/boss oriented nuker type.

    Celestial will be another flavor pact, as the Undead smite is simply a worse Hurl in every way imaginable and the spells are very lackluster.

    Bless = Eh whatever
    Soundburst = Fantastic
    Magic Circle = Boring, throw in Divine Punishment or Eladar's
    Prayer = It's alright, would rather see a decent support/healing based spell. Greater Restoration? 'Heal' as a spell? Bump up the cooldown if you feel that'd be OP.

    Holy Aura = In 8 years when divine spells get their revamp this *MIGHT* be good but otherwise it's worthless.
    Sunburst or something would be better, Chain Lightning if you're set on Celestial = electric for whatever reason

    Freedom of Movement = Seriously? This is a level IX spell equivalent and you're putting a level IV buff here? Mass Regenerate for support option, or just throw Implosion since there are exactly 1 useful level IX divine spells

    Instead of making the level 15 ability worthless, why don't you copy paste and then tone down the Exalted Angel's Divine Wrath? Nice big flashy explosion of light damage with some party healing. Make it scale off Warlock level or something 1d6 of healing and light damage each with a 30 second cooldown. Anything is better than Hurl's hurled up cousin.

    The above pact should also allow your light or electric damage to scale off the other one, honestly even with all these changes this won't be some crazy broken thing, it'll be a nice middle ground between Sorc and FvS even, which would provide a valuable option for people who want to fill out parties better.

    Warlock (read: caster of any kind) already trivializes heroics even up to mid reaper and once you hit epics you either Draconic Incarnation to 30 or you TR, there's not a middle ground, I don't care if Warlocks suddenly had the ability to throw some spare heals around, would make many dedicated healers happy to have a little backup in 6 man groups.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    If given the choice to trust either actual data or what the forums are saying, I will choose the actual data every single time.

  9. #269
    Systems Designer
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    I have time to revamp Holy Aura for this patch if you all can throw me some concrete suggestions on the direction to take it :)
    100% radical, enthusiasm enthusiast.

  10. #270
    Community Member Elsheran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I have time to revamp Holy Aura for this patch if you all can throw me some concrete suggestions on the direction to take it
    How about some defensive sacred bonuses? PRR, MRR, SR, Saves... All of these would be fair game if scaled well and otherwise the same aoe and duration. The blindness thing is really a gimmick. The charm/enchant immunity is only occasionally relevant.

  11. #271
    Community Member Alttab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I have time to revamp Holy Aura for this patch if you all can throw me some concrete suggestions on the direction to take it
    Quote Originally Posted by Elsheran View Post
    How about some defensive sacred bonuses? PRR, MRR, SR, Saves... All of these would be fair game if scaled well and otherwise the same aoe and duration. The blindness thing is really a gimmick. The charm/enchant immunity is only occasionally relevant.
    Yes all good suggestions and also remove the spell resistance check, I think it is bugged.
    The dnd 5th edition says allies illuminate, so maybe it could give a little bit of light spell power.

    Also, if it becomes stronger, you can switch holy aura and freedom of movement spell level.

  12. #272
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I have time to revamp Holy Aura for this patch if you all can throw me some concrete suggestions on the direction to take it
    Quote Originally Posted by wiki
    Holy Aura: Wards creatures allies with +4 deflection bonuses to AC, +4 resistance bonuses to saves, and immunity to enchantment and charm spells. Blinds nearby enemies on a failed fortitude save.
    • AC and Saves bonuses to a more likely to stack type: sacred ?
    • Granting Evil Damage Absorption 10% + 1% * caster level


    (alternatives to absorption)

    • Many blind guards in DDO do light guard type effects: Eg: A 1d6 light damage per caster level on being hit.
    • This is a little bit of FvS zone, but maybe it works, each successful attack on the buffed characters induce a 2% vulnerability to light damage to 10 stacks.



    I lean towards evil absorption, it fits for the theme (holy vs evil), and there is very little to do about it in game other than stacking MRR ( especially not an option for low health, low healing builds ). HA is a rare scroll ( daily dice also spams it for some reason), having these scrolls for Sharn content, and especially for the incredibly [***censored***] THTH, would be useful.

  13. #273
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I have time to revamp Holy Aura for this patch if you all can throw me some concrete suggestions on the direction to take it
    Oh, wow, there's so many directions to go...

    1. I'd like to see the CC part be more effective. Like evil mobs have to make a will save or be (non-helpless) paralyzed (or will to attack you if that's possible).
    2. Alternatively give it a save debuff aura. That way it would be good for a variety of builds, not just DC casters. like -4 to all saves.
    3. As others have said stacking buffs, it's a lvl 8 spell it shouldn't be just the standard defection stuff. Probably to PRR/MRR/Saves as those are the defensive stats that matter to everyone at every level.
    4. Increased threat would also be thematic
    Sabbath - Sarlona

  14. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I have time to revamp Holy Aura for this patch if you all can throw me some concrete suggestions on the direction to take it
    Here's a few pitches.

    Make the actual spell last as long as the spell it's mostly mimicking (circle of protection against evil)

    - Speaking of, can we make the AC or saves from both this and Protection stacking of some kind?


    As for the second half of the spell, I very much like the evil blinding concept, not how it actually works.

    I'd love it as a guard effect working on even ranged attacks.
    Targeting Will.
    Working on Undead.

    Give it some kind of scaling Good damage along the blind so it's not entirely worthless against bosses.

    No longer automagically applies to anyone around - instead, it's a wrathful revenge basically targeting the offender with a single target Holy Smite effect.
    Enthusiasm enthusiast enthusiast.

  15. #275
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The reason I don't want to do that is twofold:

    One is no other Warlock enhancement calls out a pact by name.

    Two is that out of all of the pacts, the one that's least thematic and most clashing with a tree about becoming a celestial is a pact about becoming an Undead. Part of me wants to just lock Abyssal Pact warlocks out of the entire tree, but I imagine that would be a little unpopular, to put it mildly :P
    Thematically it makes sense that ES and an undead pact (by the way, the name of Abisal does not fit for this pact) have no synergy; the problem of isolating this pact from the ES tree is mechanical. I would suggest that instead of synergizing the pact with the ES tree, you increase his synergy with soul eater (which fits much more with an undead pact) by adding some undead stuff to this tree. In this way, warlocks with the abyssal pact (another name, please; how about stygian pact?) would have a good mechanical support between SE and TS and would not have to search for stuff in the ES tree.

    If you have to change the ES tree to support this pact, why not change something from the SE to support an undead warlock instead? It seems the same work, and in this way the theme of both the undead pact and the ES tree is more respected.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  16. #276
    Community Member Iriale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I have time to revamp Holy Aura for this patch if you all can throw me some concrete suggestions on the direction to take it
    All spells that give bonuses with the same type as gear have this problem. The spells scale very slowly, and the gear's power creep is impressive. Probably all spells of the style should give small, but stackable bonuses with the equipment. If you now increase the spell bonuses to match them with the gear, in two days the power creep will leave us in the same situation.

    Please do not give mage armor to any pact. It is an absolutely useless spell even for a wizard/sorc. Imagine for a class that can wear light armor.
    English is not my native language. Sorry for the mistakes.

  17. #277
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iriale View Post
    Thematically it makes sense that ES and an undead pact (by the way, the name of Abisal does not fit for this pact) have no synergy; the problem of isolating this pact from the ES tree is mechanical. I would suggest that instead of synergizing the pact with the ES tree, you increase his synergy with soul eater (which fits much more with an undead pact) by adding some undead stuff to this tree. In this way, warlocks with the abyssal pact (another name, please; how about stygian pact?) would have a good mechanical support between SE and TS and would not have to search for stuff in the ES tree.

    If you have to change the ES tree to support this pact, why not change something from the SE to support an undead warlock instead? It seems the same work, and in this way the theme of both the undead pact and the ES tree is more respected.
    You just won the thread. SE should be the pivot of discussion for the dead pact not ES. xd

  18. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by SWCarter View Post
    It's great to see that feedback is still being considered. I'm not sure if you saw my earlier comment and I don't want to interrupt the enhancement conversation, but it would be helpful to understand if any itemization changes will be coming as part of this.

    Specifically, the Sharn sets are not designed for Charisma-based characters that also rely on Lightning/Cold/Negative. Adding +4 Charisma to the Hruit's Influence, Arcsteel Battlemage, and Dreadkeeper sets would be a starting point, and docent/light/medium armor options for any warlock-friendly sets that don't already have them would be much appreciated, as well.
    good point



    any chance that the Caustic Forum Post will be adjusted as well?

    at the moment it gives Insightful Evocation Focus,
    but i think it should be Insightful Conjuration Focus

    as i mentioned earlier
    (sorry for repeating)

  19. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    I have time to revamp Holy Aura for this patch if you all can throw me some concrete suggestions on the direction to take it
    Oh wow, yeah Divine needs a fix in general as so many spells are bad, especially the higher level ones so starting with Holy Aura is fine.

    Original PnP Holy Aura was amazing because it did so many things as the bonus's were scaled appropriately.

    3.5E
    https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holyAura.htm

    5E
    https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Holy Aura#content

    Basically the caster gets a 30 foot aura and their friends get a 5 foot aura, that aura gives them protects and debuffs anything inside it. Currently inside DDO the spell is completely and has no effect as it does a SR check on allies and thus renders the spell inoperable. It's like if Meteor Swarm first checked the casters SR and if the casters was high end it didn't cast.

    For DDO, keep it as an aura that gives a stacking (seriously no more deflection / enchantment **** that we get on mid heroic Sapphires) +saves to friends -saves to enemies, and make the blind effect anything that gets in range. Blind in DDO isn't nearly as powerful as it is in PnP as the devs gave everything tremor-sense / life-sense / Dungeon Master Vision so the monsters will come run at you regardless, but at least they'll move slower.

    Alternatively, we can make the Aura do damage, inflict vulnerability, give a sizable spellpower boost or paralyze (non-helpless) undead / evil-outsider / evil monsters. Think of it as making everything evil so wracked with pain that they can't move. Holy Aura is an eighth level spell yet in DDO has the strength of a 3rd level spell and is outclassed by virtually everything else due to it's bonus's not scaling.

  20. #280
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    You just won the thread. SE should be the pivot of discussion for the dead pact not ES. xd
    No one is stopping you.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

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