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  1. #1
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Default Thrill of the hunt end fight on Elite

    honestly, this was... crazy...

    As soon as you damage Karleth enough, he releases howlers, and for 12 seconds after that, you can't attack unless you're on high wisdom build,
    and divines help you if you bursted him fast enough (as I did)... howler wis debuff line is as wide as my monitor (which is wide screen one)...

    Also that quest loves "open door, get yellow DA" trope...

  2. #2
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    yeah.

    You could .. you know .. move. Move around the jail cell. Climb the boxes. Give yourself time.

  3. #3
    Community Member banjo174's Avatar
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    CC is your friend
    ~IAmTheGreySoldier~

  4. #4
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tist View Post
    yeah.

    You could .. you know .. move. Move around the jail cell. Climb the boxes. Give yourself time.
    LOL, I'm talking about END fight, not first encounter with howlers (would help if people actually read what I wrote)

    I did not die FYI, was just unable to do anything other than running around till wis debuff cleared. (sadly, getting that debuff means you can only watch as Karleth kills hostage, since hires are not exactly useful to flip levers in middle of combat, even on passive)

    Not the first time I ran that quest, just got reminder why I avoid running it on elite.


    And on CC, part:

    Have fun CC-ing 15+ howlers when they immediately put debuff on you which makes you unable to do anything other than run around. (howlers are one of those mobs that are effortless in small groups and annoying in larger groups)

    To say again: would help if people actually read what I wrote
    Good advice though.

  5. #5
    Community Member Amorais's Avatar
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    I use jump-back a lot on that fight. As in swing your sword, whirlwind attack etc, jump back, whirlwind attack etc. If you get surrounded your dead so I just make sure I never get surrounded. Also keep moving at all times. Or, if your high dps, concetrate all your fire on Karleth using every dps buff you can. Since when he dies you get the xp so it doesnt really matter if you peg it after killing him

  6. #6
    Community Member Gniewomir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    LOL, I'm talking about END fight
    He's too.

  7. #7
    Community Member HungarianRhapsody's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    honestly, this was... crazy...

    As soon as you damage Karleth enough, he releases howlers, and for 12 seconds after that, you can't attack unless you're on high wisdom build,
    and divines help you if you bursted him fast enough (as I did)... howler wis debuff line is as wide as my monitor (which is wide screen one)...

    Also that quest loves "open door, get yellow DA" trope...
    Yep. It's a fun fight.
    No one in the world ever gets what they want
    And that is beautiful
    Everybody dies frustrated and sad
    And that is beautiful

  8. #8
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    This is a tough fight especially if you are also attempting to be successful with the optional and while you are running the quest solo - Keep in mind I actually like that quests are not designed in a way that makes them "solo cake walks". I also like that you can be successful running the quest solo, you just might not be able to do everything.

    You are correct the the wisdom debuff is tough to overcome.

    Now, I notice you seem dismissive on the CC angle and based on that I'm wondering if that is because the thought is only towards "reactive" CC and not "proactive".

    I know the Symbol spells and traps are not popular amongst the power gamer, but these are tools you can put up ahead of time - you can do so even before you engage the boss.

    Next, have you considered positioning of the boss? say maybe pulling him away from the cage area so he is out of reach of the levers? There is a hallway leading to another room you can move around in.

    Have you considered other options to avoid the debuff from setting you to Zero? Did you look to see if it is possible to have enough wisdom to avoid that? Maybe some temporary buffs or a swap in gear item that you can equip before the release (or even before the fight)

  9. #9
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    I think there is a different view point on "the problem"

    Personally, I prefer to ask myself

    1. What went poorly?
    2. Why did it go poorly?
    3. What can I do to avoid it going poorly next time?
    4. Did I use the terrain to my full advantage?
    5. What did I notice that could give me visual cues?

    This is one of the quests where, when running solo that full on DPS may not be the best approach unless you can beat the two release points.

  10. #10
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HungarianRhapsody View Post
    You can report the "issue" if you want. Complaining on the forums isn't the actual way to "report the issue" if you think that this quest isn't working correctly.

    This is a good quest with a fight that has a challenging optional. That's a GOOD thing.
    I reported this issue in same way I reported an issue here: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ns-bad-planing

    Notice that this one was fixed.

    Also notice this old thread started by one dev himself in this very subforum: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...nto-the-ground

    I was more or less his call to players to report stuff like one I'm reporting here (fun fact I died to trap he was referring exactly once, on my first elite run, and I see him starting that topic as way to fix stuff in game that was from era before current "balance system", like trap being really lethal and intended way for dealing with it was timing, not tanking it,)
    ^this is how I see howler zerg in thrill, something left over from bygone era^

    OH! Don't get me wrong, I like howler quirks, it makes them special mobs, but when that quirk instead of being quirk becomes broken mechanic, it's time for a fix (if you don't get what I mean, you never played MtG). You keep ignoring part where I wrote about entire width of screen being debuffs (and I play on wide screen with resolution that was considered SciFi when DDO was released), that's either not WAI, or pure trolling.

    I'd also like to point out to another howler "quirk" that was partially "fixed" in Mirror quest:
    Their quills apply 60 second DOT that ticks for less than 10 damage on EE, which was enough to prevent mirror use till it passed. That's also "manageable" (Stoneskin and those PoP rings with DR/lawful are great for "managing" it).

    What did SSG do?

    You can use mirror while being DOT-ed by quills.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    I think there is a different view point on "the problem"

    Personally, I prefer to ask myself

    1. What went poorly?
    2. Why did it go poorly?
    3. What can I do to avoid it going poorly next time?
    4. Did I use the terrain to my full advantage?
    5. What did I notice that could give me visual cues?

    This is one of the quests where, when running solo that full on DPS may not be the best approach unless you can beat the two release points.
    My problem was that, knowing about howler zerg, I tried to "manage" that fight by bursting Karleth as fast as possible, since he only flips lever after some time passes.

    Got him to 10% health in less than 2 seconds, and then howlers "activated" and game lagged for less than a second 8which is not unusual, I've noticed that game lags for less than a second often when something "activates", does not happen always, but likes to happen when it's least wanted).

    After lag spike passed, i had entire line at top of screen filled with howler debuff. having ~25 WIS did not help against that.

    I still stand by suggestion that those zergs should be replaced by 2 red named howlers.

    Would actually make for deadlier fight, since those zergs are sooo deadly on HE that I could just stand still to wait for debuff to clear. Why do people need to use boxes to escape is beyond me, no wonder I did not notice them before.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    What did SSG do?

    You can use mirror while being DOT-ed by quills.
    The rule has always applied to a lot of stuff, not just the mirror. You just need to wait a bit.
    Last edited by korgzz_bloodaxe; 05-25-2020 at 09:32 PM.

  12. #12
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    ...


    My problem was that, knowing about howler zerg, I tried to "manage" that fight by bursting Karleth as fast as possible, since he only flips lever after some time passes.

    Got him to 10% health in less than 2 seconds, and then howlers "activated" and game lagged for less than a second 8which is not unusual, I've noticed that game lags for less than a second often when something "activates", does not happen always, but likes to happen when it's least wanted).

    After lag spike passed, i had entire line at top of screen filled with howler debuff. having ~25 WIS did not help against that.

    I still stand by suggestion that those zergs should be replaced by 2 red named howlers.

    Would actually make for deadlier fight, since those zergs are sooo deadly on HE that I could just stand still to wait for debuff to clear. Why do people need to use boxes to escape is beyond me, no wonder I did not notice them before.
    So that was not the solution that worked. Have you instead thought about a more controlled DPS to adjust to the spawn release so as to avoid opening both cages at the same time? Thus give yourself time to deal with howlers?

    How about pulling him down the hall so the Howlers don't have Line of site?

    Fun fact, quest design usually includes ways to achieve the objective, if you think beyond straight DPS.

  13. #13
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korgzz_bloodaxe View Post
    The rule has always applied to a lot of stuff, not just the mirror. You just need to wait a bit.
    quills DOT is 60 second long, that's why SSG changed so that you can use mirror while being under it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Enoach View Post
    So that was not the solution that worked. Have you instead thought about a more controlled DPS to adjust to the spawn release so as to avoid opening both cages at the same time? Thus give yourself time to deal with howlers?

    How about pulling him down the hall so the Howlers don't have Line of site?

    Fun fact, quest design usually includes ways to achieve the objective, if you think beyond straight DPS.
    *sigh* (and then people get upset when I mention lack of reading comprehension)

    read my other comments.

    AGAIN!

    My issue was that IF you get debuffed by howlers, you can only watch as Karleth kills hostage, since you can't flip lever with 0 WIS, and each howler inflicts -2 stacking WIS (IIRC)...
    And on elite each wave has ~10 howlers.
    So, unless you're on high WIS build (like mine toon, 14 WIS at that time, that was HE, and my toon was lvl 16), you can forget that optional while soloing.

    Also, getting Karleth away is not solution to save hostage, since he does not need to be near cage to flip lever since it's scripted and happens regularly.
    So soloing that quest and going "slow" is not recommended solution if you wanna complete optional.

    THAT is why I created this topic, it's not a hard fight (quite the opposite, it's easiest boss fight in Wheloon) but it has an optional whose completion becomes near impossible if soloing.

    I tried using hire on passive, but that was a fluke (at least one howler always aggroes on him and also there are 4 levers flipped at random order).

    I tried going slow but with 10+ howlers and boss good luck flipping lever in time.

    THAT's my issue. An auto fail optional. Something noone notices and concentrates on combat tips for an easy fight...

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drunkendex View Post
    My issue was that IF you get debuffed by howlers, you can only watch as Karleth kills hostage, since you can't flip lever with 0 WIS, and each howler inflicts -2 stacking WIS (IIRC)...
    And on elite each wave has ~10 howlers.
    So, unless you're on high WIS build (like mine toon, 14 WIS at that time, that was HE, and my toon was lvl 16), you can forget that optional while soloing.
    I really don't see a problem with that. There are a bunchs of optionals in this game that can only be required by having certain features (lockpicking in any way, traps that has to be disarmed in shadow knight, levers and doors that can only be used by having high STR, high search, etc.), so having a soft barrier that can be countered with an adept strategy (as you can either deal enough damage b4 the howlers are released, have high wisdom, using CC, etc.), is clearly not the worst the game has to offer in this regard.

    I remember the times where Karleth killed the hostage on Elite without you being able to do something, because the trap did so much damage, that you had around 5 seconds before the poor man died.



    I have no problem soloing the optional, and I don't agree that you have to be able to solo every optional. This is an MMORPG, after all. I'd rather like more quests that has rewarding optionals that only functions by player splitting up with tasks or by going to different places.

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