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  1. #1
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    Default U46 : Hurl Through **** now has its listed DC

    From the U46 patch notes - Hurl Through **** now has its listed DC.

    What exactly does that mean? I assume it's a nerf from actual behaviour to described behaviour.

    It seems to me it's been succeeding a lot less since the patch.

  2. #2
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    The tooltip for Hurl has said "10 + Warlock level + Charisma Modifier" since release, but the actual DC behind the scenes was erroneously 15 + Warlock Level + Cha mod. I've fixed the actual DC to match the tooltip.
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  3. #3
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tist View Post
    From the U46 patch notes - Hurl Through **** now has its listed DC.

    What exactly does that mean? I assume it's a nerf from actual behaviour to described behaviour.

    It seems to me it's been succeeding a lot less since the patch.
    They basically hit it with -5DC. Not the end of the world for sure but enough that you will probably notice it in higher difficulties for sure. So basically (due to how it was worded) a stealth nerf from previous behavior or a bug fix to correct behavior depending on how you care to phrase it.
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  4. #4
    Community Member Thar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The tooltip for Hurl has said "10 + Warlock level + Charisma Modifier" since release, but the actual DC behind the scenes was erroneously 15 + Warlock Level + Cha mod. I've fixed the actual DC to match the tooltip.
    so now it won't work 25% more

    at 30 this would be 10+20+45-50 depending on chr. that is 100 chr to get a 50... 80 dc is not sufficient for end game. The -5 DC is like having to add 10 chr to the character to make this up. Without spellfocus adding to this effect, it should stay as is... or be buffed...

    it needs a bump not a nerf.
    Last edited by Thar; 05-01-2020 at 02:44 PM.
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  5. #5
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Actually, it had always been -5DC from what was listed, many have looked at it and found the descrepency. Now we have the tooltip showing the DC without needing people who didn't know to manually adjust the numbers in their head instead. So there's been no nerf, unless if you want to argue that the original description should have been the way it should be.

    J1NG
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  6. #6
    Community Member Thunder-Monkey's Avatar
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    Gee, thanks! An underwhelming feature on an underwhelming class. Just how many fiend-pact locks do you see running around these days?

    How about you fix the Tainted Scholar core#5 to match the tooltip? (heads-up, incoming nerf to TS core#5).

    OK so i'm a bit butthurt about this and I apologise for my snarky tone, but the points still stand!

    I love this game (not sarcasm) and I thank the devs for all their hard work in keeping it running and bringing us new stuff to play with. I will continue to enjoy my warlocks regardless!

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  7. #7
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    If the name of this ability is too inappropriate to be mentioned on the forums without censoring asterisks, how is it OK to be in game? Or, looked at the other way, if it's name is fine in-game, why is it getting censored on the forums?
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  8. #8
    Community Member SiliconScout's Avatar
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    Sorry man but hurl needed a buff not a reduction. Matching the description and the mechanic to 15+level+cha would have been the better fix.

    It really needed to be at 15+level+Cha … seriously. given the 25 second cool down + inability to boost DC with gear + blocked by death ward + some enemies are outright immune but still put it on timer and it's simply kind of weak. It's not useless certainly but at 20 SP a shot it is not something you just toss every chance you get when it's off cooldown.

    Sure you could toss 10 - 20 of them in an average quest but you save it for the Orange Named weak on Will saves so realistically you toss it 3 - 4 times. It needs to be more reliable on those guys to make it worth using more often than that IMHO.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    Actually, it had always been -5DC from what was listed, many have looked at it and found the descrepency. Now we have the tooltip showing the DC without needing people who didn't know to manually adjust the numbers in their head instead. So there's been no nerf, unless if you want to argue that the original description should have been the way it should be.

    J1NG
    Not sure I follow you at all. It was wrongly a base of 15 for 5? years, now it's a base of 10. Compared to the day before the patch, it's 5 less. I couldn't really care less what the tooltip says (except it's nice for it to be accurate) when compared to casting this worked before and doesn't work now. 5 years later it gets -5 to it's effective dc is a nerf.

  10. #10
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tist View Post
    Not sure I follow you at all. It was wrongly a base of 15 for 5? years, now it's a base of 10. Compared to the day before the patch, it's 5 less. I couldn't really care less what the tooltip says (except it's nice for it to be accurate) when compared to casting this worked before and doesn't work now. 5 years later it gets -5 to it's effective dc is a nerf.
    It's always been functionally 10, but the description was 15. This has now been fixed, and description is also 10.

    You can't nerf something if it was working like that in the first place.

    Now, an argument can be made to increase it, but using its original wording as how it should be behaving when the description was wrong in the first place is not a good argument to increase it so.

    Something more along the lines of:

    Originally this ability allowed it to function against Death Blocked enemies at zero SP cost. This was changed and a SP cost was added. This ability also no longer functions on Deathblocked enemies. Whilst it is a nice "freebie" to the class with the Fiend Pact, it is in no way really functional anymore when other identical "instakill" DC spells end up having superior DC's comparatively as equal level. Since the ability is unlikely to be altered, a reduction or removal of the SP cost, or indeed, permitting it to function again on Deathblocked enemies, would make this ability once again viable for the difficulty in increasing the DC for it. Right now, 80-90 Will save, is very tough to land already on enemies at higher end content, whether content or through increased Reaper Skull difficulty. If this was returned to its original functionality, this would at least provide it a permanent 5% chance to actually work when utilised. Right now, it serves very little purpose comparatively, and does warrant a buff of some kind.

    J1NG
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    It's always been functionally 10, but the description was 15. This has now been fixed, and description is also 10.
    Wrong! It was 15 and then got modified to match the tooltip which is 10. Did you read Lynnabels response at all?

    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    Actually, it had always been -5DC from what was listed, many have looked at it and found the descrepency. Now we have the tooltip showing the DC without needing people who didn't know to manually adjust the numbers in their head instead. So there's been no nerf, unless if you want to argue that the original description should have been the way it should be.

    J1NG
    This makes absolutely no sense at all. The tooltip always said 10 and you are effectively saving it was a "5 + Warlock level + Charisma Modifier" which it NEVER was.
    Last edited by korgzz_bloodaxe; 05-01-2020 at 04:53 PM.

  12. #12
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korgzz_bloodaxe View Post
    Wrong! It was 15 and then got modified to match the tooltip which is 10. Did you read Lynnabels response at all?
    Tooltip for the DC was always using 15 in its calcuation, this was the error. Functionally it was 10 however. You need to have been testing to know this, not just read dev comments.

    This makes absolutely no sense at all. The tooltip always said 10 and you are effectively saving it was a "5 + Warlock level + Charisma Modifier" which it NEVER was.
    Tooltip says 10 I'm not disputing that, the DC calcution it showed was wrong however, as it was erroneously using 15 instead. As stated above, this is what was changed. Not the actual DC of the spell, just the display of it.

    J1NG
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  13. #13
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    Okay I am confused now. Screenshot of before and after would help clarify but I'm guessing we don't have that.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The tooltip for Hurl has said "10 + Warlock level + Charisma Modifier" since release, but the actual DC behind the scenes was erroneously 15 + Warlock Level + Cha mod. I've fixed the actual DC to match the tooltip.
    Hurl DC is out of sync.

    With the previous Hurl nerf that changed Hurl from bypassing Deathblock and no spell power DC component,or Epic level love this 'fix' is likely to hurt the Hurl users.

    Would you look at balancing Hurl to be have a comparable DC to equivalent spells instead of this 'nerf' 'fix'.
    Last edited by JOTMON; 05-01-2020 at 05:41 PM.
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  15. #15
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JOTMON View Post
    Without a spell power DC component,or Epic level love this 'fix' hurts the Hurl users.
    Perhaps instead of this 'nerf' 'fix' you balance Hurl to be have a comparable DC to equivalent spells.
    Agree that the Hurl ability needs some love. Limitation after limitation was thrown over it over the years and now it's reached a stage where its use is highly limited over the limitations imposed onto it. Would recommend some buffs are needed for it as JOTMON is saying. Or keep the DC as is, but return it to its old Deathblock bypass ways. Not only will this provide a reason for its difficulty in increasing its DC, but also give new Fiend Warlocks a permanent 5% chance to succeed at all times (since a target only needs to roll a 1).

    J1NG
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  16. #16
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The tooltip for Hurl has said "10 + Warlock level + Charisma Modifier" since release, but the actual DC behind the scenes was erroneously 15 + Warlock Level + Cha mod. I've fixed the actual DC to match the tooltip.
    Which spell school boosts the DC of this? If the wiki is correct and the answer is none, then you really should put it back to 15+ or even 20+ because it will be way behind other spells which are boost by spell focus feats, enhancements and items.

    Thank you.

    For reference from the wiki:

    Considered a Necromancy effect; however, it is not affected by items, feats and abilities that improve Necromancy DCs.
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  17. #17
    Community Member janave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redoubt View Post
    Which spell school boosts the DC of this? If the wiki is correct and the answer is none, then you really should put it back to 15+ or even 20+ because it will be way behind other spells which are boost by spell focus feats, enhancements and items.

    Thank you.

    For reference from the wiki:

    Considered a Necromancy effect; however, it is not affected by items, feats and abilities that improve Necromancy DCs.
    Had the same thought, i would make it Abjuration tho to really mess with us .

    Oh and Devour has the same problem when it comes to DC scaling, also seemed broken when i tried it.

  18. #18
    Community Member redoubt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janave View Post
    Had the same thought, i would make it Abjuration tho to really mess with us .

    Oh and Devour has the same problem when it comes to DC scaling, also seemed broken when i tried it.
    That makes sense. You are killing something by sending through another plane. Which is effectively what banishment does and that is abjuration.
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  19. #19
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    Angry omg finially the long awaited nerf we all needed - said no one. ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    The tooltip for Hurl has said "10 + Warlock level + Charisma Modifier" since release, but the actual DC behind the scenes was erroneously 15 + Warlock Level + Cha mod. I've fixed the actual DC to match the tooltip.

    [OFF]
    This reminds me of my days back in college. Final semester, final great exam before graduation, test results being handed over to students.
    There's this cute girl sitting on the corridor, holding her test and crying. Being really desperate and full of despair barely seeing anything from behind her tears.
    The prof walks up to her, ask her what is wrong? She failed, obviously... she stammers slowly: "one point". She needed only one more point to pass.
    The prof takes her test. "Ohh dear my love, let me see if I might help you". The girl cheers up a bit, a shy smile upon her face. She's hoping.
    The prof replies after after checking her test for a min or two:
    "Actually this here, is wrong too - showing the paper to the student. You see, that means the following two are also erroneous.
    (turns paper)
    Look at this, I overlooked this ... This is also wrong answer. And here, below this is also incorrect, how I not noticed"

    Gives back test to student

    "see, you needed even more than one point to fail, I tried to go easy on you and you still failed" - and walks away.
    Girl remained speechless.
    [/OFF]

    These are the kind of "fixes" that no one asked for and you had better not touched at all. Or if you had an urge to "fix" something that ought to have been the description. This here is a game which meant to be enjoyed.
    -- CANNITH --
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  20. #20
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    The DC potential is already incredibly low.

    This is the DC for devour the soul:
    'I would suggest making hurl 10 + charisma modifier + necromancy modifiers as it already has a slower cooldown. Spells without school modifiers are problematic and don't scale well. This it the case with hurl.
    Last edited by slarden; 05-02-2020 at 10:19 AM.

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