Page 1 of 12 1234511 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 234
  1. #1
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Posts
    19

    Default Mostly New Players Played DDO for 1 month: why it's hard for many of us to continue

    First, I want to say that this is a truly wonderful game with an incredible amount of complexity and depth, and a puzzle MMO to boot that seems quite rare and difficult to make well. So it's a kickass game and I do not regret paying for a three-month subscription, even if I may not continue playing with my friends past April 30th when the free content ends. And the vast majority of players I've run into have been nothing but supportive and helpful, always eager to stop and share, teach, and carry. It seems to be an older and more mature community and that's been really refreshing considering games like Dota 2 (which we've mostly played) and others with inherently toxic and immature communities. So it's even more sad that people only seem to hear of this awesome game by word of mouth and it's hard to get people to stick around. Anyway, despite some of us playing quite a bit this past month, here are some reasons why the majority of my group of friends, us all gamers who have played together for most of the last 15 years, sadly probably won't keep going.

    1. The VIP subscription and its limitations feel exploitative.
    The biggest visceral turnoff for my friends, who had been enjoying the month of free content (without coming close to seeing all of it or being able to evaluate all the expansions and content) and were on the fence but hadn't yet paid for VIP as I have, is that with the VIP subscription model they still don't get access to all content. I feel this could have been muchmore appealing to new/potential customers even if you'd somehow charged a bit more per month for access to ALL content, or at least put together different packages. But it's really offputting to newer players because then the burden of figuring out whether they have enough points or are better off picking/choosing/buying certain expansions or packages, or whether it would be worth it to just grind limited slots and characters for enough points, falls entirely on them. This is already a game that is very difficult for newer players to pick up, it feels like we're back in college with all the wikipedia and reading we have to do to figure out mechanics and interactions already, but then it's being reduced to something like a cost-benefit analysis of VIP versus premium versus F2P or seeing it as the dreaded 'hidden fees'.

    For some of us who had played a bit more this past month, we've done enough to know that expansions like RL and Sharn are not only new and good content, but have vastly better gear than just about anything else we could casually find from group quests without target farming or grinding. Like we know Heroic RL gear is good enough to carry us to 20 and a bit beyond, and Sharn takes care of the rest, and that these two also comprise much of the endgame legendary content to aim for. So with this knowledge in mind, these feel less like optional adventure or expansion packs, and more like things we're gonna have to get anyway, except somehow with a subscription model we don't. And people feeling to any degree like they're getting baited in is not good.

    2. The power creep and separation between players is gargantuan, in a game in which the sheer amount of knowledge already acts as a huge barrier to overcome.
    When you're a newer player and find a competent group to play with for the first time, it's like tasting the forbidden fruit. Here I am, limping into a decent heroic Ravenloft PUG for the first time with my 200 hp and 28-point first life awfulness, and I see people who have 5x my hitpoints destroying everything. Half the group is literally so fast, strong, and knows the quest so well that it's possible for them to finish reaper quests without me actually seeing or touching a single monster, even if I already know where the quests are. My only interaction might be getting instantly destroyed by a reaper, then slowing people down if they choose to backtrack/rez me at all. I won't really learn anything, and am basically a piker not even by choice. But this method allows me to plow through ranks and levels at a dizzying pace. Where once it took me hours to learn and complete a quest that was a small part of my XP bar on normal/hard, I can now get carried through entire lives at warp speed.

    For some players who mostly enjoy the puzzle-solving aspect of the game, this is not an issue, because you can choose to never play in groups or even higher difficulties. You can be content with going at a snail's pace, stopping to enjoy the intricacies of every dungeon and find all the optionals (hopefully your class can deal with traps). Sure, it might take you much longer to experience most of the game's content, but you can also stay F2P longer or maybe pay for the privilege down the road. But then, why are you playing an MMO? The entire point of this genre is the community and interaction, or you're better off just playing different puzzle games, as good as DDO already is.

    But for many of us who want to both see and experience as much content as possible (especially with April 30 coming up), including late-game and in large groups and raids, as well as be able to beat increasingly difficult challenges, it presents a real conundrum. It's infinitely more efficient to get carried and group, yet you soon discover that these players have dozens to hundreds of lives played with their characters being rewarded accordingly, and/or have grinded the arcane crafting system / accumulated enough storage space and gear from years of playing to instantly twink out any new character who can run circles around yours for the foreseeable future. It's seldom fun or engaging to get totally carried, and despite how nice this community has been, it tends to be annoying/inefficient for many of those players too. And with more content, levels, and by all reports fewer players than in the past, it is both difficult to get groups of people that you can enjoy/learn quests with, and to ever be able to close the gap with far stronger players so that you can ever meaningfully contribute to their runs. So you just constantly feel like a burden / left out, which you are, and you either suck it up and inadvertently sleeze through things as quickly as you can to hopefully one day suck less, or you progress like a sloth, or you pay to make things better.

    Just today I walked into a slayer where someone two levels below me had literally 10x the HP I did. Of what use could I possibly be to this person and players like them? Better get to work on them reincarnations...which leads me to my next point.

    3. Reaper difficulty and the XP curve feels like a catch-22 that funnels people toward P2W.
    Because I took the forbidden fruit of being carried, even joining a guild where some people went out of their way to be helpful with advice, mechanics, and outright dragging me through some lives, my secondary character is now on a 3rd life TR. However, there is now a huge wall where I basically NEED to complete Reaper quests to get half-decent XP for anything. Now, surely it's my fault that I didn't learn some of these quests as well as I could have, but I basically don't have a choice anymore from here on out but to only do or hold out for Reaper. Sure, these are not unreasonable expectations for players who would have normally gone through a few lives already. But it further limits the availability and appeal of groups you can join, many classes do not fare well soloing reaper, and biggest of all, you need a lot of reaper XP to do better at reaper.

    I can understand why Reaper was designed this way, as many systems in this game seem engineered to keep more experienced players from getting bored and giving them more hamster wheels to run, and so they'd have no issues crushing early Reapers if they were already destroying elite for years on end. But for newer players, Reaper is not only quite a step up in difficulty but gives pitiful early Reaper XP, while simultaneously becoming essentially mandatory by 3rd life and onwards. It is the DDO equivalent of the job/experience problem.

    And finally, leading to the biggest and most important reason...

    4. The game just doesn't seem to really cater to new players at all.
    I'm sure the reasons for this may be crystal clear to those of you who have been around, many games eventually reach a retention / milk the whales phase where there's not much expectation of continuing to build a playerbase so why waste the resources. If that's the case here then it's regrettable because this is a truly amazing game that I'd never have heard of without word of mouth, and one I wouldn't have enjoyed to a fraction of the extent I do without the kindness and helpfulness of the community.

    My friends felt just as I do that the amount of research and looking things up was like being back in school again, and that's only enough to just scratch the surface. Now sure, some of this is a positive, many gamers don't want their hands held, and the challenging puzzles and decisions in this MMO seem philosophically opposed to that. But there were so many instances where a simple bit of guidance would have made things much more fun or given people small 'goals' to progress towards, rather than being things that they had to find out incidentally or maybe regret not knowing later.

    -guideposts that explain character build decisions, feats, stats, gear, DCs etc. in better detail to help new players avoid building potentially extremely ineffective characters early on in their game experience. for instance, in-game access to build guides or templates, which also help people get excited about progression and builds. better organization of what spells do and what resists/saves impact them
    -recommendations/grouping of zones with brief descriptions of difficulty, favor rewards, sagas, and available/unique loot to make people want to explore or group in those areas. maybe some zones tend to have more traps and puzzles while others are more combat-heavy etc.
    -incentives for people to group and for older players to teach/play with newer ones

    I've seen many posts here that have come up with more reasons and analysis than I could, it's a self-contained topic entirely. But I will say that my friends and I are grateful for being able to experience this free month in this wonderful world of DDO. We wish more people got to experience and enjoy it as we did!!

  2. #2
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    6,256

    Default

    Its not just the new player experience. What you're describing is actually complaints a lot of veterans have been making for a long time… especially your points about Reaper mode. I will say that soloing elite is still adequate xp to do third lives quickly enough, but they absolutely made a mistake making Reaper mode the optimal XP for farming. It was originally supposed to just be a group challenge mode, nothing more. Zerging is zerging though, and that's not going to change - but you can always solo if you don't want to pike.

    The preset paths could probably do with an update as well… Most of them date back to the start of the game itself, and are pathetically outdated. Replacing them with some more modern and effective builds would be low hanging fruit to help new players learn the game.

  3. #3
    Community Member voxson5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,293

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KBBQ View Post
    Very good post
    I hope this gets noticed by the relevant staff.


    Just touching on your VIP comments - agreed. IMO it should be full access, but I'd get behind including all content except the most recent expansion, and have that new content join the full access once the next expansion arrives.

  4. #4
    Community Member Monkey_Archer's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    2,792

    Default

    All of your points are very accurate, but you aren't the first to make them. Many players have echoed similar sentiments for 10 years now, most like myself gave up trying to get through to Turbine/SSG a long time ago.

    Since this is a well constructed post I'll throw my 2 cents in anyway (again? )

    1. DDO uses a Subscription + Expansion model for making money. I don't see that changing regardless of how it affects new players. What I would hope for, and should have been done a long time ago is to make all 1-20 heroic (non-expansion) content free. This would be a huge improvement for new players IMO. Hopefully this 'free everything' experiment leads SSG towards something like this.

    2. Virtually every update in DDO is 2 steps power creep, 1 step nerf, followed by endless whinging on the forums about the small nerf. This obviously results in the unbalanced mess that new players have to navigate through. To compound this, Turbine/SSG has gone through multiple dev-team iterations that have, instead of fix/repair/remove old obsolete content/gear, they just added their new system on top, resulting in endless noob traps at all points in the game (but this is a separate topic). My recommendation to new players is always to avoid grouping entirely, play at your own pace, learn the game, have fun, etc..
    That aside, the only way this gets fixed is a massive nerf everything update (which will likely never happen). Reaper points never needed to give hundreds of free hp (the trees alone were fine), epic past life passives are absurd for heroic leveling, Racial past lives should have been front loaded, all old gear needs to be removed/updated to the current system, etc..

    3. It is important for the game to have the reaper xp grind wheel going right now. It is not important to the game to have that reaper grind wheel literally double your character's survivability. IMO, R1 should be easier than it is now (nerf low level reapers and champion scaling), but all free hp should be removed from the reaper trees entirely (making it roughly the same difficulty for experienced players, but much easier for newer players to step in and get going)

    4. The game does not really need to 'cater' to new players. Part of the fun is figuring things out yourself. That said, DDO is in desperate need of a noob-trap clean-up, in addition to the more important balance issues already addressed.
    Thelanis

  5. #5
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    444

    Default

    Sadly, all too true.


    If I could offer any advice it would be for you and your friends to play together at a pace and in content with which you all are comfortable and have fun. Hopefully you will find others along the way and make more friends. Don't feel obligated to jump on the Reaper Train and feel bad because you are ten years late to the party.

    The power divide really is too great unless you wish to turn this game into a career or spend tons of money. I have taken massive steps back over the past few years due to the direction the game has taken. When I pop back in from time to time it is to create my own fun rather than compete for high Reaper status.

    I am certain someone can search the relevant quote, but the Devs have stated they are happy with the state of the game.

  6. #6
    Community Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    851

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sho-sa View Post
    Sadly, all too true.


    If I could offer any advice it would be for you and your friends to play together at a pace and in content with which you all are comfortable and have fun. Hopefully you will find others along the way and make more friends. Don't feel obligated to jump on the Reaper Train and feel bad because you are ten years late to the party.

    The power divide really is too great unless you wish to turn this game into a career or spend tons of money. I have taken massive steps back over the past few years due to the direction the game has taken. When I pop back in from time to time it is to create my own fun rather than compete for high Reaper status.

    I am certain someone can search the relevant quote, but the Devs have stated they are happy with the state of the game.
    Just to add to this, you can use the text box in the LFM to make it clear that you are not zerging but would appreciated a veteran who wants to join and be slow and helpful. You may be surprised just how many will offer their services.

    Oh, and yes, the OP was correct on all points.

  7. #7
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    All of your points are very accurate, but you aren't the first to make them. Many players have echoed similar sentiments for 10 years now
    I came here to say this too, so, that's done then.

    What extra I would say is that you should experience the content on your own, before playing it with experienced people. Even experienced people often play through new content alone the first couple of times. Why do this? So you can see, do, explore, learn and find out, at your own pace without other people with different speeds and interests spoiling that for you. You defintiely should, imo, not get carried thru all the content, on your first life - save that for a 2nd life, or a 3rd.
    Unfortunately this is an easy trap to fall into as it's disguised in this mmo, due to lots of people playing the levels over and over. Other MMOs would not have so many people playing the old content, as people pool at the top and don't have to replay the game apart from when they want to make an alt.

  8. #8
    Community Member Firebreed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    118

    Default

    Good thread, but just wanted to reply to this:
    Quote Originally Posted by KBBQ View Post
    For some players who mostly enjoy the puzzle-solving aspect of the game, this is not an issue, because you can choose to never play in groups or even higher difficulties. You can be content with going at a snail's pace, stopping to enjoy the intricacies of every dungeon and find all the optionals (hopefully your class can deal with traps). Sure, it might take you much longer to experience most of the game's content, but you can also stay F2P longer or maybe pay for the privilege down the road. But then, why are you playing an MMO? The entire point of this genre is the community and interaction, or you're better off just playing different puzzle games, as good as DDO already is.
    The reason some people play this as a solo game is because there is no other game that scratches the exact same itch as DDO does (cRPGs are not the same kind of experience), in any genre. Add to that the vast amount of content & depth this game offers, and you can easily see why someone may opt to play this game as a single-player one, completely ignoring the MMO experience. Simply put, there is no good-enough alternative.

  9. #9
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Monkey_Archer View Post
    All of your points are very accurate, but you aren't the first to make them. Many players have echoed similar sentiments for 10 years now, most like myself gave up trying to get through to Turbine/SSG a long time ago.
    This^! And ALL the OP. Well said, and sadly true.
    Blood Scented Axe Body Spray (Thelanis)
    Aelonwy - Wydavir - Metaluscious - Aertimys - Aelyrra - Kaelaria - Lunaura - Aelurawynn - Saurscha - Crystalorn - Aurvaeyn - Vaelyns - Wyllowynd

  10. #10
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    249

    Default

    I agree with all points in the OP.

    The pre-made character paths you can pick are supposed to help new players navigate the extremely complex character development system. Instead, they are so badly out of date that they are another new player trap. If the devs can't be bothered to update them, just pull them.

    Having the full XP penalty kick in by life three seems excessive to me. It needs to kick in more gradually. Such massive XP penalties should be for players with 6+ lives that are trying to build a character that can excel at any class role or do well in a sub optimal flavor build. It shouldn't be for players just trying to get up to par for one build focus like DC casting.

    I would say consolidate the servers, but with the lag players have been talking about lately I am not sure the servers are up to that level of load. However, a fresh start alternate server where there is no such thing as reaper would be welcome. Let players that get bored there transfer to a regular server for free.

  11. #11
    Community Member Chilldude's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,077

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KBBQ View Post
    [B]First, I want to say that this is a truly wonderful game with an incredible amount of complexity and depth, and a puzzle MMO to boot that seems quite rare and difficult to make well. So it's a kickass game and I do not regret paying for a three-month subscription, even if I may not continue playing with my friends past April 30th when the free content ends.
    It guts me to see an intelligent and eloquent new player leaving for all the reasons I've been pointing out for the better part of the last decade. I want to say, "Don't go dude, give it a chance. You'll get there." I know the math simply does not support that contention. You'll get there, in about 6 and a half years if you play 5-6 hours every single night running flat out the entire time.

    However, all hope is not lost. I've quit this game for years at a time several times. I came back a couple years ago around Halloween just to check things out and found that there was a lot of named gear at cap that appeared it might open the game up to even first life characters. Back then not a single friend was playing, and there'd be like 2-3 LFMs up, not in my level ranger either, I'm talking 2-3 LFMs total. I suspected that a party of first life characters could do Epic Elite, and it would probably be about the right amount of challenge. I didn't stick around long enough to find out, there was nobody around and the game is super boring solo. There are far, far better single player MMORPG's than DDO.

    Then about a year later some friends from an old static group wanted to get game night back together, and we ended up in DDO because it's what everyone had. We started playing a bit off and on outside the static group and it turns out EE is playable with a party of first life characters decked out in endgame named gear. I've seriously been considering starting a first life only... club? ...guild? ...discord channel? ...event? ...there's the problem. I don't want to do a lot of work that may or may not ever bare fruit in order to try to fix the bone headed decisions of the developers.

    The developers should make a first life only server and set it as the default. Offer free transfers to other servers when/if players ever feel like jumping in the hamster wheel. Personally, speaking as a long time vet that could probably draw a map of every dungeon, complete with monster spawns, I in no way equate first life with new player. Quite the opposite actually. Anyone who's ever found themselves in a timelord group knows it's just a whole lot of running and spamming. So while the timelords would love people to believe they are at the pinnacle of challenge, don't believe them for one second. It's not something to strive for, it's not the ultimate challenge, it's just a whole lot of running around in circles. If there were a first life server I'd retire all my other characters and play on it exclusively.

    Short of that all I can do is recommend staying as far away from timelords as you can. Sounds like you have a group of friends, and even a small group of 3-4 players can be a lot of fun in DDO. As far as subscription goes, I highly recommend NOT subscribing. Just buy DDO points when they go on sale and buy packs when you need them. I own all the content in DDO and don't pay another dime to play any of it. I can leave for a week, a month, even a couple years and come right back to play the content I own. It's something they actually did better than anyone else in my opinion.
    First Lives Matter!!!
    Give us a no reincarnation server!

  12. #12
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    969

    Default

    One request for SSG would be to create an enhanced version of VIP that gives access similar to what we have now, that is, to all packs. Make it more expensive than regular VIP.
    Maybe it needs to be 15/month instead of 10. Maybe it needs to be more than that and only sold in blocks of 3 months (eg $50 for 3 months) I'm sure your finance department can figure out how to make the numbers work. But if you do this you give new players price transparency, which the original poster really needs to feel good about spending money. This isn't some fringe desire, his desire for price transparency is a pretty common position.

    To the original poster---there are basically only 2 things you need to spend real money on---Menace and Shadowfell expansions, both of which can often be gotten on sale during the right time periods. Everything else you can get through ddo points gotten in game.
    For instance, when you get around to racial lives, you can use the DDO points earned during your previous race life to buy your next race (I normally do around 3k per racial life in favor, which gives about 750 points per life, 3x750 will easily pay for the next race unlock). Even Sharn and Ravenloft can be bought with points from favor. So you really don't need to spend any more than you want to spend. In actuality, you can easily skip shadowfell and just buy Menace.

  13. #13
    Community Member kmoustakas's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Greece
    Posts
    2,624

    Default

    I agree with most of your points except the last one. The game is really really trying to cater to new players but the gap between new players and old is so huge that it feels like veteran players don't. The game has a specific playstyle : "hamster like crazy to tr then hamster more". That is very counterproductive to new players. The result is veterans complaining and new players complaining with more or less net negative result.
    Social Justice W...arlock
    OkarisRage, Artificer with 3 druid past lives = <3
    Okarinios Orgismenos: Hardcore Rage barbarian.

  14. #14
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Somwehere where there is LOTS of rakija.
    Posts
    1,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ValariusK View Post
    One request for SSG would be to create an enhanced version of VIP that gives access similar to what we have now, that is, to all packs. Make it more expensive than regular VIP.
    Maybe it needs to be 15/month instead of 10. Maybe it needs to be more than that and only sold in blocks of 3 months (eg $50 for 3 months) I'm sure your finance department can figure out how to make the numbers work. But if you do this you give new players price transparency, which the original poster really needs to feel good about spending money. This isn't some fringe desire, his desire for price transparency is a pretty common position.
    This is good idea.

    It would give players other options instead of having to cash out decent sum to get all expansions, or wait for once-a-year sales.

    My biggest issue is reaper forcing...
    Wanna best XP bonus? Run reaper, since elite has 50% less first time XP to reaper...

    One of the worst mistakes SSG made is that huge difference in first time XP between reaper and elite...

    Especially with current lag issues where if you have any form of lag soloing reaper and encountering carnage/plague reaper is almost sure death due to server thinking you're standing still, while you're trying to kite said reaper.

    As insult to injury, game lags most in most intense combats...

  15. #15
    Community Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    763

    Default

    Sadly all 4 points aren't problems to SSG, they're solutions. The game didn't get enough VIPs to survive back in the day, so they went Free to Play with Premium/VIP and Pay to Win strategies to make enough money to pay the bills.

    They sell expansions separate from VIP to make more money, sell power creep, experience, past lives, reaper experience (XP pots), sell a new flavor of power every year or two (warlock, inquisitive, alchemist), etc.

    You want a game redesign that makes a two tier VIP, they already did that but instead of anything relevant they just threw in more gold rolls, cosmetics, and an Otto's box. Money for power, but only in a way that lets them keep selling you more. There is no VIP silver bullet, one purchase/monthly fee and done, that would be a flawed design to the current owners of DDO.

    You want a fairly new player that hasn't bought anything to be relevant compared to a 10 year vet who's spent thousands? That's directly opposed to SSG's business interests. In their opinion you need to look at that character you envy and start making a shopping list, which pls matter, which expansions do you need to buy to farm that gear, how many xp pots will it take to earn that reaper xp, etc.

    You can do it all for free, if you have 24/7/365 to play and enjoy pain and suffering. You can pay for it, if you're ready to be a whale. You can pick a middle road, spend some money and spend some serious time grinding, and arrive where you want to be in a couple years. Or you can realize the only winning move is not to play. Thankfully right now the lag is probably helping most people on the verge of being suckered in to make the right choice and walk away.

  16. #16
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    3,811

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KBBQ View Post
    1. The VIP subscription and its limitations feel exploitative.
    Personally, I find SWTOR far more limiting. Their model really drove me into playing DDO again.



    2. The power creep and separation between players is gargantuan, in a game in which the sheer amount of knowledge already acts as a huge barrier to overcome.
    [...]
    I won't really learn anything, and am basically a piker not even by choice.
    This is imho far more serious than the vocal crowd in this forum realises.

    I won't say much about it anymore, because no-one listens.



    4. The game just doesn't seem to really cater to new players at all.
    You can read very clearly here what has happened : https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...eringToTheBase

    [quote]My friends felt just as I do that the amount of research and looking things up was like being back in school again, and that's only enough to just scratch the surface.[quote]

    Imho, DDO has become a math game.

    Plus, there's such an gargantual amount of Curse Of Knowledge going on in these forums .

    Now sure, some of this is a positive, many gamers don't want their hands held, and the challenging puzzles and decisions in this MMO seem philosophically opposed to that.
    DDO comes from another age. It's a pre-Blizzard game. No exclamation marks, no question marks flowing over the tops of people, no map markers, nothing.
    For example, try to play the RPG called "Gothic" and you'll know what a *real* challenge there is in questing !

    A LOT in DDO is consisting of "finding it out yourself". The huge problem with this approach is that those who "know things" always have an advantage. On the good side, they could help you, but that would perhaps make you feel even more powerless. On the bad side, they could just zerg/speedrun through content and be everywhere so much faster than you.

    Besides, a lot of help is found in the Wiki.

    What I don't quoite like, though, is the NEED to look into the Wiki, because information one would expect to be within the game is missing, for example, what level a scroll actually has, so I would know what inscription materials I'd have to buy.

    I've seen many posts here that have come up with more reasons and analysis than I could, it's a self-contained topic entirely.
    As I said, DDO has become a math game. The most lively discussions are about mechanics. Those players wouldn't even mind if their characters looked as if they were made out of concrete or clay, I fear.


    DDO is a great game, but it's not very Newbie-friendly. It is very friendly to math professors, though, cynically put.
    Still I enkjoy it. Nothing is more satisfying to me than to disarm a trap.
    "No, it doesn't say 'Lifeling' "

  17. #17
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Somwehere where there is LOTS of rakija.
    Posts
    1,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    You can read very clearly here what has happened : https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...eringToTheBase
    You should see what they did in Path of Exile.

    Imagine if lvl 30 + quests were only doable by prenerf inq using only most broken builds/top tier gear.

    Any other build can forget even contributing, let alone soloing that content.

    That's what PoE did.

    Another comparison: imagine if lvl 30+ quests were all comparable to prenerf THTH raid.

  18. #18
    Cosmetic Guru Aelonwy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kmoustakas View Post
    I agree with most of your points except the last one. The game is really really trying to cater to new players but the gap between new players and old is so huge that it feels like veteran players don't. The game has a specific playstyle : "hamster like crazy to tr then hamster more". That is very counterproductive to new players. The result is veterans complaining and new players complaining with more or less net negative result.
    Lots of people have made decent suggestions for narrowing the gap but they get shouted down by vets (not calling anyone in particular out) with arguments that range the gamut of this:

    I like that DDO rewards me for putting in the time if they want the rewards they need to put in the time.
    (Assumes a new player is going to view the mountain of busy-work past lives, epic destinies, and reaper xp with favor and willingness and not just laugh at the absurdity and spend their time and money elsewhere.)

    You don't need all the past lives to be competitive.
    (Ignores that to be competitive you do need a massive amount of game knowledge, decent gear, decent build, at least some play skills and possibly some bolstering past lives or you have to be okay with being carried and only playskill is something a new player might have right from start. Gygax forbid they used a pre-made path. Also ignores that the devs keep balancing new content for those with all of the above not for anyone starting out.)

    If you want the reward on this character you need to be playing this character.
    (Ignores that behind every alt on an account is the same player, putting in the same time and/or money.)

    Just lower the difficulty till you can run the quest.
    (Ignores that most grouping opportunities are at the highest difficulties and higher difficulties are rewarded exponentially more than lower difficulties.)

    I'm sure I'm forgetting some of the oft repeated excuses for the reason things continue this way. Definitely feels like the game is and has been in the whale-milking stage for awhile.
    Blood Scented Axe Body Spray (Thelanis)
    Aelonwy - Wydavir - Metaluscious - Aertimys - Aelyrra - Kaelaria - Lunaura - Aelurawynn - Saurscha - Crystalorn - Aurvaeyn - Vaelyns - Wyllowynd

  19. #19
    Community Member Drunkendex's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Somwehere where there is LOTS of rakija.
    Posts
    1,086

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aelonwy View Post
    Lots of people have made decent suggestions for narrowing the gap but they get shouted down by vets (not calling anyone in particular out) with arguments that range the gamut of this:

    I like that DDO rewards me for putting in the time if they want the rewards they need to put in the time.
    (Assumes a new player is going to view the mountain of busy-work past lives, epic destinies, and reaper xp with favor and willingness and not just laugh at the absurdity and spend their time and money elsewhere.)
    TBH, I'm one of those, I don't mind power creep, and one thing i like in DDO is long term goals, BUT this is behind some serious issues which i will touch later.

    You don't need all the past lives to be competitive.
    (Ignores that to be competitive you do need a massive amount of game knowledge, decent gear, decent build, at least some play skills and possibly some bolstering past lives or you have to be okay with being carried and only playskill is something a new player might have right from start. Gygax forbid they used a pre-made path. Also ignores that the devs keep balancing new content for those with all of the above not for anyone starting out.)
    This I agree on, past lives can make serious difference, they're not essential, but whoever says they're not boost, is failing his/her spot check...

    If you want the reward on this character you need to be playing this character.
    (Ignores that behind every alt on an account is the same player, putting in the same time and/or money.)
    TOTALY agree. Locking rewards per character is major failure.
    This is one aspect where SSG should copy Anet (owner of Guild Wars 2). In GW2 most of upgrades are account bound, and it promotes alt playing, while in DDO you need to either have "absolutely no life" or forget on decent power boost for your toons in form of PL's, raid gear, etc... This is somewhat mitigated by BtA gear and raid tokens, but only slightly.

    Making PL's acc bound would be huge improvement, but TBH it has it own can of worms...

    Just lower the difficulty till you can run the quest.
    (Ignores that most grouping opportunities are at the highest difficulties and higher difficulties are rewarded exponentially more than lower difficulties.)
    WORST way of thinking in DDO, SERIOUSLY, everyone that thinks like that, STOP, noone likes "t3h l33t" group.
    Especially considering that if you're on TR train, for example, running elite seriously hurts your progress, and running lower level content is even worse.

  20. #20
    Community Member Burradin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Radcliff Ky
    Posts
    518

    Default Just my 2 cents

    I would never say there is not a steep learning curve to this game, but it seems to a degree, there should be when you join a game 14 years in, if the game is still growing and changing which DDO is. I will agree that SSG might find ways to make it easier for new people to get up to speed (but not catch up per se).

    But here is where I am going to part ways with a lot of the crowd. You don't have to be as powerful as the 14 year vet that knows every thing about the game to have fun. The real question is play and if you enjoy then keep playing.

    I don't play with anyone other than family anymore, so I can't speak to the pub scene as I never really enjoyed the pug scene. Even when the game was new, I found it not very enjoyable to play with a bunch of random people as often there was at least one not worth my time due to attitude.

    I have a character that is a heroic completionist that I don't keep count of epic and racial past lives. I enjoy playing her therefore she keeps doing lives with my wife's character. Since I don't raid or play with groups, why do I do this (I enjoying playing it).

    But my side project when my wife does not want to play right now is a first life (32 point build because I only play on Sarlona). Have no desire to spread across a bunch of servers. Level 8 (2 Rogue, 3 Arti, 3 Alchemist) Weird build that I am just trying to see how it works for my alchemist life on my main. Also, she is only playing with what she loots because I am too lazy to play the character switch game to get gear. Guess what, she is still doing reaper 1 quest. Part of that is my experience, but it also says it is possible. Not much different that those playing hardcore reapers except they likely not build experimenting during it. Again, I am enjoying this so she keeps getting played. Trust me, many toons have died over the years simply because I did not enjoy playing them.

    So what point am I trying to get at? I don't think you have to catch the Jones to enjoy this game. If you have to be as good and have the same powerful toon as everyone else, DDO will not be your game at this point. If you want a challenging game that can be extremely diverse and fun, strap in for the ride.

    Sinfully - Fopo - Lu****lly - Many others but again, too lazy to type them all.
    It is ok to hate me, I don't like me most of the time.
    The Harsh Reality is "we both believe we are right"
    People are strange
    Relax, it is a game to be enjoyed.

Page 1 of 12 1234511 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload