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  1. #1
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    Default It looks like multivial is actually MCL 20, not MCL 10

    The alchemist Multivial spells do not deal damage as per the description (or the regular vial spell)
    Desciption says these multivial spells deal 1d6+2 per level, max caster level 10. That is max 10d6+20 per projectile.
    The Regular vial (level1) spells also deal 1d6+2 per level, max caster level 10. Also max 10d6+20.

    Yet a multivial deals almost twice as much damage on even the first projectile.
    My guess would be multivial is a MCL 20 spell after all, even if the description states MCL 10.

    With 178 spellpower and maximize and empower, 0 points in any tree.
    Regular Vial of Sparks: 312 damage (average over 20 tries disregarding crits)
    Multivial of Sparks: 595 damage (average over 20 tries disregarding crits)

    With +3 max caster level:
    Regular Vial of Sparks: 400ish damage
    Multivial of Sparks: 675ish damage

    My first thought:
    vial of sparks increases from 10d6+20 to 13d6+26.
    and multivial increases from 20d6+40 to 23d6+46.

    note: regular vial of sparks seems to deal just a bit more than that. Maybe the weighted dice (1d3+3 instead of 1d6?) and multivial not?
    Or a different calculation altogether?

    Can anyone confirm? Maybe test with a lvl10 alchemist and see what the numbers are there?
    And with plus caster level (not max caster level)? (this shouldn't change but I hypothesize it does).
    Last edited by Rull; 04-07-2020 at 06:12 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Master of Spellvials?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tilomere View Post
    Master of Spellvials?
    No, don't have that.
    I'm not level 24 yet, but I'm curious to see how that changes the damage.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rull View Post
    No, don't have that.
    I'm not level 24 yet, but I'm curious to see how that changes the damage.
    Lol, why does it not surprise me the only Alc spell that does good damage and has good mana efficiency only does so because it is bugged. It seemed out of place.

  5. #5
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    I must admit I was expecting a massive increase in damage when I took Master of Spellvials, and it just did not feel like it. However, when I checked the actual amount of damage with Master of Spellvials it was correct.

    However, I did not check the numbers immediately before taking Master of Spellvials, so perhaps, as you say, it was already operating at MCL 20 (I had 18 caster levels and nothing in Bombardier with that Inq build), which is why I did not notice a mob-meltingly drastic increase from what should have been an 80% increase in damage.

    It probably is a bug, although the original information for the non-SLA version of Multivial on DDO WIKI did say max caster level 20, although more recent information says max caster level 10. So I am guessing that at least the non-SLA version was MCL 20 in beta.

    However, it is a bit bizarre to have a spell with max caster level 10 that you cannot get until you are level 12!
    Last edited by Zarkarion; 04-09-2020 at 10:36 AM.

  6. #6
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    I can confirm that the Max Caster Level of non-SLA Multivial is at least 15.

    Testing on Cultists in "Lords of Dust" Heroic Normal, the average non-crit damage per vial was 383 at Caster Level 15 with Fire Spell Power 359. (I have 12 Alchemist levels, and +3 Caster Level. No + Max Caster Level enhancements/feats etc. Maximise and Empower turned off.).

    If the SLA was MCL 10, it should be 10 * 5.5 * 4.59 = 252

    If it was counting my full caster level of 15, it would be 15 * 5.5 * 4.59 = 379.

    This is almost exactly what I got, which (unless there are any confounding factors) demonstrates that the Max Caster Level is at least 15.

    I will test it again at 20.
    Last edited by Zarkarion; 04-11-2020 at 04:11 PM.

  7. #7
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    Tested again at character level 19, Caster Level 20 in Lords of Dust Heroic Normal. Fire Spellpower 427. (No Maximise or Empower)

    Average non-crit damage per vial with a sample of 10 = 565.

    Predicted damage per vial if Multivial was MCL 10 = 290
    Predicted damage per vial if Multivial was MCL 20 = 580

    Looks like it is MCL 20.
    Last edited by Zarkarion; 04-18-2020 at 06:20 AM.

  8. #8
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    Tested again at Character level 20, Draconic Incarnation 4, Multivial Caster level 29 in Epic Normal Lord of Dust. At Fire Spell Power 542. (No Maximise or Empower). With +4 Max Caster Level.

    Average non-crit damage per vial 837.

    Predicted damage per vial at caster level 24 = 847.

    This once again tends to confirm that the unadjusted Max Caster Level is 20.

    Next thing to test will be whether Master of Spellvials increases it to 30!

    Note that all the above tests were done with the normal spell version of Multivial. I cannot test the SLA version as my character is 18 alchemist/2 artificer.
    Last edited by Zarkarion; 04-18-2020 at 06:49 AM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarkarion View Post
    Next thing to test will be whether Master of Spellvials increases it to 30!

    Note that all the above tests were done with the normal spell version of Multivial. I cannot test the SLA version as my character is 18 alchemist/2 artificer.
    Good to know.
    I wonder as well what master of vials does now, and am curious how they missed this in the very recent update 45.3, an update concerning the MCL of multivial...
    But I'm inclined to leave it to someone at SSG to write a simple unit test or test it with console commands and provide an answer. They have the means, what a player can do is horribly inefficient and unpaid work. I mean it's clear something is wrong and the issue has been reported both as bug and here on the forums.

  10. #10
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    Tested again at level 24 with Master of Spellvials in Epic Normal Lords of Dust. Draconic Incarnation 5. Fire Spell Power 587. (No Maximise or Empower).

    Caster level 31.

    Expected damage per non-crit non-resisted vial at caster level 31 if not capped by MCL = 5.5 * 6.87 * 31 = 1171.

    Actual average damage per non-crit non-resisted vial at caster level 31 (sample size 10) = 1176.

    So I am getting my full caster level. As I have +4 Max caster level, this means that Master of Spellvials raises the Maximum Caster Level of Multivial (non-SLA version) to at least 27, and it is therefore reasonable to assume it raises it to 30.

    (Also confirmed that results of Single Vial SLA with Master of Spellvials are consistent with its MCL being raised from 10 to 20 by Master of Spellvials)
    Last edited by Zarkarion; 04-25-2020 at 08:47 AM.

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