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  1. #1
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    Default This life will be my first time in Epics in over 5 years.

    Hello dancers, poets, musicians and thespians. As is the comedy and tragedy of life I am both happy and sad. I am happy that I have finally achieved completionist. I am sad about the anxiety that comes with knowing the next life will be through epic content. My first time in epics since I took a 5 year break. This means not only do I not know the content well, I will also be starting with 5+ year old gear.

    The first thing I would like to know is what difficulty should I expect to be able to play at in epics. I have done my last 3 ½ lives since I came back to the game mostly on R1-R3, being able to solo much of the content base level 2 levels lower than my level. I would like to be able to continue that.
    I probably should have posted this a week or more ago as I have already TR’d into a Scoundrel. My plan was a pure bard with great CC and as much dps as possible to beat the CC’d mobs down. This may be a challenge as I have never had enough PL and gear to pull off an enchanter so I have never tried. I still question if I do now. But in addition to lack of gear is that lack of knowledge about what spells to use against which mobs, but that will come to me soon enough as I play through it.

    So here is what I have now.

    Past lives;
    Completionist +1 cleric, +2 druid, +2 Shadar-Kai, +1 PDK, +2 Primal (Fast healing, Doubleshot)

    Tomes;
    +8 Supreme tome, +4 skills, +1 enhancements (both racial and universal) +1 PRR (almost have the Remnants for +2)

    Starting Abilities;
    All level ups in CHA.
    Str 10
    Dex 8
    Con 14
    Int 16
    Wis 8
    Cha 20

    Feats;
    Completionist
    GSWF and pre’s
    Improved Shield Mastery and SM

    I chose int instead of dex because I can take insightful reflex and I have the free universal point so I only have to use 1 point to get int to hit from Harper. Not sure of a way to get dex to hit so cheap via enhancements so if it was going to cost a feat either way I figured I would go with the free skill points. I believe I will go see fred and swap the GSWF for insightful reflex now as BB and firestorm hurt. I might have to take Force of personality later but the next planned feat I am thinking needs to be quicken. So unless I use Epic feats to fill those feats, which seems like a bad idea, I need to go without GSWF for quicken and maybe even ISWF for Force of Personality. Or would I be better to dump the ISM than the ISWF? Or to **** with Force of personality because I am missing a better way to get the will saves that I need?

    Enhancements;
    I am mostly doing Swashbuckler for the Cha damage. I have played with both Spellsinger and Warchanter. I think I am going to like the warchanter better when I get a few more AP and some stunning gear to take advantage of the freezes. However, I am currently using SS.

    So how bad is this build? Am I going to completely miss my goals? What adjustment to my goals might I make to be able to still do reapers? I figure if nothing else I will fall back on my healer skills and pike my way to 30. Should I go ahead and start building for that because I am wasting my time trying to DPS and CC?

    I have no clue what feats to take in Epics at this point. I don't really know the needs and expectations at this point. I will be working on finishing out my Fatesinger and Magister Destinies this life add all others are full.
    Any input would be appreciated.

    One final question totally unrelated to bards but in the interest of not making another post. Is there a list of quests I should avoid till 20 so I can get first time epic bonus? I’ve searched for best epic quests for leveling but they all are more related to doing daily completion than first time bonus.

    Thank you,
    Friertuck
    Last edited by MoonRunner; 03-25-2020 at 01:45 PM.
    My Main is a 19th life Scoundrel Bard Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  2. #2
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    Generally speaking, if you can solo R3 in heroics, you shouldn't have any problem soling R1 in epics. Legendary content might be more challenging though.

    I've gone through the pure bard dilemma myself. The only reason to go pure is if you want one of the capstones. Aside from that, you don't really lose anything only going 18 or 19 bard.

    Spellsinger Capstone is pretty cool, but you will most likely not be soloing epic reaper as a full fledged spellsinger. Sonic blasting isn't great, but I guess you could make it kind of work if you really wanted to.
    Warchanter Capstone is terribad.
    Swashbuckler Capstone is ok, but you can get Evasion through other means (2 rogue, or Shadowdancer epic destiny). Plus spending more than 16ish AP in Swashbuckler is pretty much a waste.

    So you only really need to be a pure bard if you want to be an all in Spellsinger. You have mentioned being short on feats, 1 or 2 levels of fighter would help a lot in that department.



    If you'd be willing to TR again, PDK would give you Charisma to hit and damage with shortswords for only 3 AP. That way you wouldn't have to worry about trying to raise INT or spend a feat on Insightful reflexes.
    Stratis on Khyber

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  3. #3
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    I have thought a lot about splashing fighter or something in. I have been hesitant because I want those last two levels of bard for the DC's. Is that just not a valid thought? Is it because i will have enough either way or more that I won't have enough unless I go pure enchanter?
    My Main is a 19th life Scoundrel Bard Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  4. #4
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    You can't build and gear for Spell DCs, Stunning DCs and melee DPS. Something will have to give, or everything will be mediocre.

    Luckily most of a bard's CC spells target Will saves, which tend to be lower than Fortitude saves. So losing 1 or 2 DCs from multiclassing and not getting the capstone shouldn't hurt your spell DCs that badly. In the grand scheme of things 1 or 2 on your DC shouldn't make or break your build. If you can't land any CC, +2 DC alone isn't going to help you. If you always land your CC, -2 DC isn't a big deal.
    Stratis on Khyber

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  5. #5
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    If you can't land any CC, +2 DC alone isn't going to help you. If you always land your CC, -2 DC isn't a big deal.
    Thats pretty much what I figured as I understand they did something to prevent 100% DC even for a meta built caster.

    Thanks for the replies.
    My Main is a 19th life Scoundrel Bard Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  6. #6
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    I'm hating this life. I have managed to get to 20 but it was slow and painful as I can't solo anything on reaper and some were tough on Elite. The DPS is terrible. The freezes are great but doesn't hold them long enough for me to beat them down. Now in EE my disco is terrible with a 42DC even when I am set as pure spellsinger (gear could help here.) I did take 4 Fighter levels hoping that would get me the DPS but I cant find a good setup there. I have added quicken, combat tactics, precision and insightful reflex. I feel useless. the only CC I have is the freeze and fascinate but it just isn't enough for my poor DPS. I'm not sure if I am doing something wrong or am expecting to much to think I can do Small Problem on R1 at 20. I'm even embarrassed to join a group at this point. I wish I had used a +1 when I started and gone pure Warlock. Too bad I already used my +20 heart. I'd buy one if they sold them.
    My Main is a 19th life Scoundrel Bard Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonRunner View Post
    I'm hating this life. I have managed to get to 20 but it was slow and painful as I can't solo anything on reaper and some were tough on Elite. The DPS is terrible. The freezes are great but doesn't hold them long enough for me to beat them down. Now in EE my disco is terrible with a 42DC even when I am set as pure spellsinger (gear could help here.) I did take 4 Fighter levels hoping that would get me the DPS but I cant find a good setup there. I have added quicken, combat tactics, precision and insightful reflex. I feel useless. the only CC I have is the freeze and fascinate but it just isn't enough for my poor DPS. I'm not sure if I am doing something wrong or am expecting to much to think I can do Small Problem on R1 at 20. I'm even embarrassed to join a group at this point. I wish I had used a +1 when I started and gone pure Warlock. Too bad I already used my +20 heart. I'd buy one if they sold them.

    You must have missed it when I said this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    You can't build and gear for Spell DCs, Stunning DCs and melee DPS. Something will have to give, or everything will be mediocre.


    If you've got working freezes, then just ditch your spells. The freeze duration is based on bard level, so you lost a few seconds by taking 4 levels of fighter. With 16 levels of bard, the single target freezes should last 16 seconds and spinning ice should last 8 seconds. I usually start a fight with spinning ice and kill 1-3 enemies, then frozen fury the next one, after that they are practically all dead.

    If your DPS is bad it's because your gear and/or build is bad.
    • Do you have all the Single Weapon Fighting feats?
    • Do you have Improved Critical for whatever weapon type you use?
    • Do you have either Power Attack or Precision?
    • Are you using the Part of the Family set?
    • Do you have a doublestrike item?
    • Are you swashbuckling?
    • Are you using charisma to damage? Your Charisma should be 60ish.
    • Are you in a DPS destiny? I see lots of people run in Unyielding Sentinel "so they don't die", but that literally cuts their dps in half.


    Adding 4 levels of fighter doesn't automatically boost dps, you need 22+ AP in kensai for it to make a real difference.

    Also, A Small Problem is one of the tougher level 20-21 quests. Try Lords of Dust, Impossible Demands, or the Borderlands.
    Last edited by Fivetigers33; 04-03-2020 at 07:55 AM.
    Stratis on Khyber

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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonRunner View Post
    I'm hating this life.
    It sounds like you didn't listen to the advice to not try to do everything, because now you're doing everything - badly. There are not enough feats and enhancement points available to have top level performance in 3 or 4 different areas. You do not need to be hyper focused on any one area, but you are so broad that you're only an inch deep and epic monsters scoff at that. I wouldn't waste a heart on it. Get through it, and ER/HR to start fresh with some past lives.

    42 DC is...really poor. It just is. Focused CC/Instakill casters try to reach 130 DC by the time they hit 30. Because that's what hitting Legendary Sharn enemies require for no-fail killing/control.
    Kobold sentient jewel still hate you.

  9. #9
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    You must have missed it when I said this:
    Actually you misread what I wrote or I didn't write it well enough to be clear. When I say I have great freezes and poor DPS and Poor Disco I don't mean with the same enhancement set up. I mean If I set up as WC with freeze I have great freezes. At this point my DPS is so bad I can not kill one mob in the time spinning ice wears off, I usually cant kill one before the single target freeze wears off much less being able to kill 2-3. If I set up for DPS my Freezes or disco wont hit and my DPS is still poor. If I set up for Disco all I get is 42DC and no DPS or freeze. It sounds like I need to continue to focus on freeze and see if I have put some in the other areas that I could move elsewhere. This is with what gear I have which is my biggest issue. I haven't done epic in 5 years and even then my gear wasn't that great.






    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    If your DPS is bad it's because your gear and/or build is bad.
    • Do you have all the Single Weapon Fighting feats?
      Yes
    • Do you have Improved Critical for whatever weapon type you use?
      No i took Shield mastery maybe that is part of my problem as I don't have a weapon with improved threat range yet.
    • Do you have either Power Attack or Precision?
      Precision
    • Are you using the Part of the Family set?
      HA HA you're funny. My gear is 5 years old except for what I picked up on the last few lives since I have been back and that's all level 10 and 14 gear. I'll look into that set. Thanks for the tip.
    • Do you have a doublestrike item?
      Yes
    • Are you swashbuckling?
      Yes
    • Are you using charisma to damage? Your Charisma should be 60ish.
      Yes Cha is currently 52
    • Are you in a DPS destiny? I see lots of people run in Unyielding Sentinel "so they don't die", but that literally cuts their dps in half.
      Fatesinger for now as I need to level it the rest of the way up.
    I replied in the quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    Adding 4 levels of fighter doesn't automatically boost dps, you need 22+ AP in kensai for it to make a real difference.
    I did this for the feats and I was trying to use Vangaurd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fivetigers33 View Post
    Also, A Small Problem is one of the tougher level 20-21 quests. Try Lords of Dust, Impossible Demands, or the Borderlands.
    I kinda knew as much. My thinking was more that I am used to doing quests two levels lower than me so doing a 20 at 20 is a change.

    I did a little adjustment last night after posting that. I also ran a quest in Boarderlands and found some improvement. Still not great but getting close to being bareble. Maybe when I get Fatesinger maxed I can pick another destiny but that opens a whole new can of worms. Or perhaps I could change to a DPS destiny for Reaper then repeat on elite to level fatesinger? What would you recommend for Destiny and twists? Fatesinger is actually almost done then I will have all of them at level 5 but Magister. What would be a good twist?
    Last edited by MoonRunner; 04-03-2020 at 12:09 PM.
    My Main is a 19th life Scoundrel Bard Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  10. #10
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    I would consider staying in Fatesinger, as it helps all your bardic things (Inspire Heroism), provides both melee and spellpower, gives free metamagics that you probably don't have otherwise, and synergizes well with SWF.

    If you're T5 Warchanter, I'd recommend:
    - Sense Weakness (T4 FotW): Freezes already give you a dps boost, let's capitalize on that
    - Legendary Shield Mastery (T2 US): Obvious extension of Shield Mastery feats
    - Legendary Tactics (T1 LD): +6 to DCs ain't nothing to sneeze at if you're ever failing to freeze stuff

    If you need healing from there, go with Rejuv Cocoon. I found myself alternating between Rejuv and CCW on my last bard life (18 / 1 Fighter / 1 FvS)

  11. #11
    Community Member MoonRunner's Avatar
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    I feel like I am making progress now so thanks for the replies.
    My Main is a 19th life Scoundrel Bard Friertuck

    AKA LitleJohn 2nd life wiz, Starsfan 2nd life Barbarian and Thrasiuus Epic Pally 1st life and a few iconics.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoonRunner View Post
    I feel like I am making progress now so thanks for the replies.
    Fatesinger is actually a great DPS tree once you have it filled out.

    Do the following and you'll be fine.

    • Take the time and farm out the heroic Part of the family (armor, gloves, necklace).
    • Get Van Richten's Cane.
    • Do a couple Feat Swaps at Fred so your feats look like this:


    Feats
    1. SWF
    3. Toughness
    6. Shield Mastery
    9. Improved SWF
    12. Improved Critical x (pick one type of weapon and stick with it)
    15. Greater SWF
    18. Improved Shield Mastery
    F1. Weapon Focus x (I'm not sure what level you took fighter levels at, but these 3 feats can be taken at any point when you take the fighter levels)
    F2. Power Attack
    F4. Weapon Specialization x
    21. Overwhelming Critical
    24. Shield Bashing
    26. Perfect Two Weapon Fighting (you want the doublestrike)
    27. Inspire Excellence
    28. Tactician
    29. Dire Charge
    30. Completionist
    L. Scion of the Arborea or Feywild

    AP
    38 Warchanter (cores, T5 Chant of Power, T5 Howl of the North, T5 Spinning Ice)
    14 Swashbuckler (cores, T3 Skirmisher, T3 Smooth Flourishes)
    27 Kensai (cores, T1 Haste, T1 Extra Action Boost, Weapon Spec x3, T2 Tactics, T4 Opportunity Attack (spam this in combat)).
    Last edited by Fivetigers33; 04-04-2020 at 07:58 AM.
    Stratis on Khyber

    Want to know my build?
    https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...il-of-the-Bard

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