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  1. #1
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Default Solving Summons with Cloning

    Summon spells are not useful. The monsters they generate are woefully below the power level of monsters in quests, die in one hit, do effectively no damage, etc. Any attempt to code them such that they meet the power level of one monster is pointless since quests vary so significantly in monster power level.

    So why not cut out the middle man?

    Each Summon Monster spell must be hard targeted on a monster, and when cast will produce a duplicate of that monster with all the same abilities, coding, etc. - functionally it would be no different than a new and permanently charmed one, and like Charm Monster it would not work on red names and some orange names. Like Trap the Soul, each level of Summon Monster would have a particular CR limit beyond which the spell would not function (I recommend whatever the general CR on at-level elite is), though Summon Monster IX would necessarily be uncapped.

    Because of the enormous differences in PC and monster builds, these summons would still be pretty bad offensively, but they could at least function as tanks.

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
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    Well, there are a few compilations with your suggestion.
    For example using a lvl 9 summon monster on a level 1 dungeon ????.
    Or having a lvl 20 character entering a level 30 dungeon and summoning a more powerful monster than one would expect.

    I feel that using the universal spell power in order to scale up the spell is more to the spirit of DDO.
    How this scaling would work? I believe DDO already has such a scaling depending the dungeon level.
    So now you summon a monster from the selected type scaled at a dungeon level that depends on your universal power.

    Now how easy it is to implement that? That's the real question...

  3. #3
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    Imo, the way to fix summons (in basically every game that has more or less useless summons that can't even hope to measure up to content, even if kept updated) is to make them immortal, but more or less one trick ponies that aren't targetable. Spider summons that just web using your DCs. Summons that just heal nearby things. Things that do mediocre damage that never the less is significant enough to add to overall party damage. Trips, stuns, paralyze things at random. Support effects like boosts to AC/PRR/MRR or emit cloud spell or small short term buffs you get for being near them. Some can still have health bars and be targetable, for those that are basically just intended to be temporary damage sponges, but most should do like one thing over and over again, automatically for smaller amounts of time, like 10s per level

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Enoach's Avatar
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    My feelings to ways to solve the issue with summons

    1. Add UI similar to Pet/Hires
    2. Allow for the number of summons to increase based on Caster Level above the spell level.

  5. #5
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Igognito View Post
    Well, there are a few compilations with your suggestion.
    For example using a lvl 9 summon monster on a level 1 dungeon ????.
    Or having a lvl 20 character entering a level 30 dungeon and summoning a more powerful monster than one would expect.

    I feel that using the universal spell power in order to scale up the spell is more to the spirit of DDO.
    How this scaling would work? I believe DDO already has such a scaling depending the dungeon level.
    So now you summon a monster from the selected type scaled at a dungeon level that depends on your universal power.

    Now how easy it is to implement that? That's the real question...
    alas, the level 1 dungeon would only have enough ambient energy to summon creatures appropriate to it

    as for a level 20 character entering a level 30 dungeon and summoning a level 30 monster... what's the issue? it's not balance, since relying on summons to clear the quest would take f-o-r-e-v-e-r. it's not thematic, since the same PC can bring literal astronomical phenomena to bear - surely a shower of meteors is far more impressive than the direst bear

    i'm strongly against spell power being involved because spell power is for making spells do more damage. a summoned creature isn't a spell; any veteran of Magic the Gathering knows this ;D

    .

    as for implementation, of course i can't say for certain but i really don't think it can be that hard:
    IF not redname
    copy the creature
    paste the creature
    paste a permanent unbreakable charm buff on it

    seems straightforward to me

  6. #6
    Community Member Kinerd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reywas View Post
    Imo, the way to fix summons (in basically every game that has more or less useless summons that can't even hope to measure up to content, even if kept updated) is to make them immortal, but more or less one trick ponies that aren't targetable. Spider summons that just web using your DCs. Summons that just heal nearby things. Things that do mediocre damage that never the less is significant enough to add to overall party damage. Trips, stuns, paralyze things at random. Support effects like boosts to AC/PRR/MRR or emit cloud spell or small short term buffs you get for being near them. Some can still have health bars and be targetable, for those that are basically just intended to be temporary damage sponges, but most should do like one thing over and over again, automatically for smaller amounts of time, like 10s per level
    this would be really interesting, reminds me of the FvS lantern archon

    spider - web
    earth elemental - earthgrab, also buffs PRR
    archon - single target direct damage (stick with what works)
    water elemental - cures and heals, also buffs MRR
    fire elemental - fireball/dbf, also bestows fire shield
    air elemental - ruin absolutely everyone's day, auto kick from party

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