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Thread: Call to Arms

  1. #1
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    Default Call to Arms

    Hi, this video popped up in my recommended feed on Youtube. I don't know the person, and it looks like she does not play DDO, was just checking it out.
    But it got me thinking (normally not a good thing). In the title she says DDO and 2020.



    With the most recent update I think its clear Standing Stone games is in it for the long run.
    With the update to the The Catacombs (which I Liked), they show they are just not trying to do "cash grabs", but make the game better and better.
    SO, I was thinking we should do a DDO 2020 Campaign.
    Now I'm not that good at making videos, as most of you know. But their are peeps on here that are very good at that.
    So, I throw out a challenge to all that are willing.
    1. Who can make the best Trailer for DDO 2020.
    2. Who can make the best Character Creation Video for DDO 2020.
    3. Who can make the best Starting Walkthru Video for DDO 2020.

    Now the only rule is it has to be new, and in the title it has to say DDO 2020, and in the image pic it has to say DDO 2020.

    We can then share them on facebook and such.
    My guess Standing Stone games does not have the funds to promote the game like we would want them to (also we want them to spend money on the game itself).
    So lets do it for them.

    So pls make some videos, and post them here.

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    Even if you do not like this idea, pls give feedback on what you think would be a good way to get more people playing.

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    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tianie View Post
    Even if you do not like this idea, pls give feedback on what you think would be a good way to get more people playing.
    Beat lag and fix hireling AI.
    Would be my "good ways" to get more people playing.
    Of all the RL people I know that were interested in DDO, these two things were the killer (not nerfs/balance changes etc). Now of all the people I knew that played DDO regularly, we are just 3... and we take long pauses...
    kruemeli of Orien - Leader of the "Merry" Hobbits https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...20#post5002220
    It is okay to be "merry": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjOOKb-DFZs
    I just Keep quiet and think.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYP8M06A8W0

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tianie View Post
    Even if you do not like this idea, pls give feedback on what you think would be a good way to get more people playing.
    Need lowered barriers to entry:

    Package a bunch of the old heroic content, especially low-level, into a real modern starter-pack and sell it through the DDO market. A new player isn't going to be interested in buying an expansion they can't use until lvl 15. But assembling, say, KotB, catacombs, delaras, and even Ravenloft into one pack(+all the other fun low-to-mid heroics content), coupled with a fast-leveling mechanic for that first character, would definitely catch a lot of eyes.

    The thing the game needs is to provide newly arrived players with much faster initial leveling on that first character's first-life. As is, a new player starting out on casual difficulty just trying to learn the ropes is going to hit about lvl 4 and rage-quite because the grind is just too much. They're never going to see the really fun parts of the game that justify all the grinding.

    And don't just say "new players should just grind". Other games do not throw such a grind-wall directly into the player's faces. You want to attract and keep new players? Give them a way to get to cap MUCH faster than is currently available.

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    The devs expect new players to run a quest 3 times in a row to get max favor/ddo points.

    When they have said themselves that running the same quest over and over makes players rage quit.

    See the disconnect?

    And they wonder why the game doesn't grow????
    Last edited by capsela; 03-13-2020 at 12:22 PM.
    Toon on cannith

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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    The devs expect new players to run a quest 3 times in a row to get favor/ddo points.

    When they have said themselves that running the same quest over and over makes players rage quit.

    See the disconnect?

    And they wonder why the game doesn't grow????
    New-player retention doesn't seem to be a thing at all. I think when they said "The game is in a really good place right now" they meant "old paying customers aren't leaving as fast as we thought". They're not doing ANYTHING to bring in and keep new players.

    Take a look at what other MMOs are doing. Do you see anything like that in DDO?

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    New-player retention doesn't seem to be a thing at all. I think when they said "The game is in a really good place right now" they meant "old paying customers aren't leaving as fast as we thought". They're not doing ANYTHING to bring in and keep new players.

    Take a look at what other MMOs are doing. Do you see anything like that in DDO?
    It's almost like they don't even want new players. It's really sad. The devs are literally terrified of new players gold/favor farming.

    Cue some VIP to chime in, saying that elite VIP opening is what makes it worth it.

    OK, boomer.
    Toon on cannith

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    Ya know what? Let's just lay out a hypothetical conversation to really illustrate my point:

    "Hi! I'm a new player. I'm enjoying DDO enough to consider buying a subscription, but I'd really like to level a lot faster so I can try out these 'raids' everyone is talking about, or maybe play the really cool-looking new expansion pack. Is that possible?"

    "Sure! Just open the in-game store, spend a bunch of money on DDO points, then use those points to buy a 'tome of learning' and experience boosting potions. The tome will give you an extra 10%, and the most expensive potions(which cost several dollars each) will give you another 50%. If you buy that sub, you can get another 10%!"

    "...and that will help me level faster?"

    "A little. Since you're new and don't have any equipment. The stuff in the low-level packs hasn't been updated since the Bush administration, and the game doesn't have a new-player-usable crafting system; so you'll be limited to maybe normal difficulty. Also since the XP potions are based on a timer, you're going to have to rush through every dungeon at breakneck speed if you want to get anything close to value out of them."

    "Is that really the only way to get to cap faster?"

    "Nope! You can also spend a TON of money and wait for a limited-time item that's sometimes in the store called 'Otto's Irresistible Box'! It's got a token inside that'll level you directly to 20. Sure, you won't know how to play your character and will undoubtedly make a lot of really bad mistakes that can't be undone without spending more money. Also the box is confusing to use and your brand new lvl 20 character won't have any equipment whatsoever. Also! The lvl cap is actually 30, so you still have to play your naked, terrible, expensive, gimped character through 10 more very difficult levels before finding out you aren't remotely ready to play these raids."

    "This sounds really complicated."

    "Does it? Maybe try Everquest II, where the starter pack available on the website gives you a token that levels directly to the actual cap AND some new, up-to-date gear that's actually valid at end-game."

    "I think I'll go try Everquest."

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    Quote Originally Posted by capsela View Post
    Cue some VIP to chime in, saying that elite VIP opening is what makes it worth it.
    Oh, god, VIP is SUCH a freaking waste of money, especially if you're a new player who doesn't know the game yet. Yeah, you can open on elite, sure. You'll take two steps and die, but you can do it.

    10% XP boost? That's absolutely NOTHING when you're trying to level on casual difficulty.

    Some extra run speed? you probably wont even notice it.

    What else does VIP even do?

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    Provide marketing and promotion for a game that won't market itself?
    No thanks. I get paid by the hour. In the same way my builds can be nerfed and broken without receiving a heart of wood, No freebies.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    In the same way my builds can be nerfed and broken without receiving a heart of wood, No freebies.
    Yeah that was kind of a phallic move. Last time they did a major series of nerfs they passed out free +5s. Time before that it was free +20s. Smoothed over allllllll the ruffled fathers. Given how unpopular the inq nerf was, one wonders why they didn't do the same?

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    Here's my contribution.

    Toon on cannith

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tianie View Post
    Even if you do not like this idea, pls give feedback on what you think would be a good way to get more people playing.
    Presentation,

    Beter introvid, maybe.
    Better character creation
    Why can so many non melee classes fight? The jack of all trades i get, they are the off melee, the speedy hit& run and sneak attackers but a lot of the arcane and divine classes have melee trees, yet where are the real melee classes devoid of diverse options?
    Runescared barbarian (a wild version of a paladin, tatooing spells on their body)
    Where is the ranged tree? When can i throw dual axes as a barb?

    Why are the pure fighter feats so bland? Why doesn't it have a ranged tree?
    Why doesn't a fighter have enh that center around weapon styles instead of weapon groups? (Swf, 2wf,2hf, shield feats, that need a rework btw, a set of ranged feats, a line of spellbreaker feats? A line of pole arm feats?

    And why so little melee classes compared to say, arcane casters?
    All the descriptions are horribly outdated since the meta keeps flipping, so are the premade paths.
    The character is a horrible mess for a new player, all the premium/vip classes and races give a real money grubbing vibe, have them collapsed under a tab but make it so it stayes folded out once openend for the tr peeps.

    Races,
    Fix dwarven throw your weight around to include the to hit bonus, publish the iconic dwarf
    Where is the iconic half orc?
    Wheres mah half ogre?
    The wf armor feats are a trap, let them have 1 for free at char creation and include proficiency. With added warnings when selected a class that normaly can't wear that body feat.
    As for quests, it would help if quests of the same level felt like the same level.
    A rework of a bunch of old modules like borderlands, haunted halls, slavelords, ToEE, whiteplume,etc. Into 1 mega pack where a first level toon could speed level to lv10/15/20? With a tuturial area. No more korthos and nigh empty harbor.
    You need to wow (no pun intended) the potential new customer.
    This way ddo might have a decent first time exprience with better looking quests, to draw in newer players and fans of the classic modules these quests were based on (drop HH to it's initial lv 4 though.

    Do something about the ui (and all the icons) on full hd they are small, on 4k most people played by memorising where the icons are, they were that small.

    Rework (raid) flagging into an easier system.

    Stop being greedy and stop introducing all the new crafting systems that are abandoned a year later. consolidate all the ingredients into 3 or 4 that work for any system, make it and cosmetics account bound, a few new players back then wasted precious points on low tier bags, quivers and other trash, clean up the store.

    I could go on for days, there is so much to say about this.
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    I play a guy with a two-hander not just in this game, but in every game that has 'em.
    Quote Originally Posted by J-mann View Post
    Not to derail the thread, but then can you make 2hf NOT suck so much compared to 2wf or swf?
    Quote Originally Posted by FlimsyFirewood View Post
    8 pages in, that train has already sailed. The dead horse is canned into cat food by now.

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    Thanks for the input, but I would like to see things YOU can do, not what Standing Stone can do. We all know there are things that could be better in the game (always will be, nothings perfect).
    But they have shown that they are slowly making the game better, but they only have so much money. If we increase the player base, they will have more money to make things better.
    But I think DDO is STILL the best MMO out there, so lets get more people playing. And help those players learn the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tianie View Post
    Thanks for the input, but I would like to see things YOU can do
    Oh.

    WE can't do jack diddly.

    The game is completely unapproachable for new players. The grindwall is way too big way to early and many aspects of the game are an incomprehensible mess. I truly think that if you could level that first character a lot faster it would keep a lot of new players interested enough to invest.

    But as for things we as the community can do? About the only thing is push SSG to devote some effort to new-player retention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    Oh.

    WE can't do jack diddly.

    The game is completely unapproachable for new players. The grindwall is way too big way to early and many aspects of the game are an incomprehensible mess. I truly think that if you could level that first character a lot faster it would keep a lot of new players interested enough to invest.

    But as for things we as the community can do? About the only thing is push SSG to devote some effort to new-player retention.
    I disagree. I just had three of my friends download the game tonight, I made a first level character and grouped up with them, ran Korthos right along side them. They never played before, we did everything on elite, because yea I'm VIP and can, and we took it slow. I answered their questions, showed them how to level and spend their enhancement points, you know. The things vet players should do to help newbies instead of expecting them to be ready to zerg R1 or higher in every quest. When we were done, they loved it. It's now a weekly thing planned out for those characters and a couple of them are making new characters to run on their own. I did tell them to stay away from the forums though, the soul drain on here can kill the fun for any new player.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    New-player retention doesn't seem to be a thing at all. I think when they said "The game is in a really good place right now" they meant "old paying customers aren't leaving as fast as we thought". They're not doing ANYTHING to bring in and keep new players.

    Take a look at what other MMOs are doing. Do you see anything like that in DDO?
    When the only thing developers know to do is to make everything harder to keep up with power creep, there isn't too much leeway for new players.

    It is getting to the point where some of us old timers wonder if we can even keep playing this game. No groups. Ten champs at a time if you solo. Level 25 dungeons chocked full of level 45 mobs. A very few, very specific, viable builds where everything else is treated like garbage. Upping the requirements again and again so those of us who don't play 10 hours a day can't keep up. I have thought more in the past two weeks about deleting all my characters than I did in the last 10 years. I haven't because I think "Lets not be rash". But I have set on the loading screen and contemplated.

    Then they take out the few things that are actually beneficial to new players (yes, about the buff shrines again).

    I usually end these rants with, "I love this game but..."

    Now I don't even think "I love this game". I just play it out of habit more than anything. It's more like "I hate this game, but ... maybe next login will be different." It rarely is. Almost all of my friends are gone. I solo 90% of the time. I don't enjoy most of the dungeons. All of the newer stuff is just harder and harder. The old content isn't even comparable the the difficulty of the new content. I play old things on reaper and I feel good about completing. Then I play some of the new stuff on elite and get wiped out.

    I know for a fact that SSG doesn't care about players like me. They only care about those few who. I think a lot of us old timers are sticking around out of habit. But one day, we're going to finally quit. They keep pushing and pushing and we keep hanging on hoping.

  18. #18
    Community Member Bjond's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tianie View Post
    Even if you do not like this idea, pls give feedback on what you think would be a good way to get more people playing.
    I know you're thinking marketing, but I'm thinking there's no way I'd recommend this game in it's current state. I'd need to see some of the changes below happen before I'd consider that.

    1. Mega-server. People like people. Even die-hard solo'ers in an MMO like having people around (or they'd be playing a console game).

    2. No more Hardcore League server. It splits the population when you want to bring it TOGETHER. Grouping isn't just good, it's God.

    3. Add Hard-Core flagging: any character can adopt a one-way flag until TR of "permanent death". Give nice perqs to an HC character, like "increased rare drop chance in every chest that scales up by 10% per past life"; if we can't bring newbies to the R10s, we can bring the R10s back to newbies (machiavelian but it would bring folks together if the hook is sufficiently baited).

    4. Support Alts & HCs. Per-account raid-counts (for 20th). BTC/OE to BTA/OE (particularly raid items). Accrue past-life feats to an account not to a character. Another "together" change -- permits capping alts for raids while TR'ing main -- ie. you can help a raid without giving up on drop chance and make TR progress without having to skip on raiding with the guild.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smokejumper89 View Post
    Oh.

    WE can't do jack diddly.

    The game is completely unapproachable for new players. The grindwall is way too big way to early and many aspects of the game are an incomprehensible mess. I truly think that if you could level that first character a lot faster it would keep a lot of new players interested enough to invest.

    But as for things we as the community can do? About the only thing is push SSG to devote some effort to new-player retention.
    Three working paths for each class that include AP spends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bjond View Post
    I know you're thinking marketing, but I'm thinking there's no way I'd recommend this game in it's current state. I'd need to see some of the changes below happen before I'd consider that.

    1. Mega-server. People like people. Even die-hard solo'ers in an MMO like having people around (or they'd be playing a console game).

    2. No more Hardcore League server. It splits the population when you want to bring it TOGETHER. Grouping isn't just good, it's God.

    3. Add Hard-Core flagging: any character can adopt a one-way flag until TR of "permanent death". Give nice perqs to an HC character, like "increased rare drop chance in every chest that scales up by 10% per past life"; if we can't bring newbies to the R10s, we can bring the R10s back to newbies (machiavelian but it would bring folks together if the hook is sufficiently baited).

    4. Support Alts & HCs. Per-account raid-counts (for 20th). BTC/OE to BTA/OE (particularly raid items). Accrue past-life feats to an account not to a character. Another "together" change -- permits capping alts for raids while TR'ing main -- ie. you can help a raid without giving up on drop chance and make TR progress without having to skip on raiding with the guild.
    1 yup.
    2 nope, it's fun.
    3 I actually like this. A reward for trying not to die (though I would not tie to past lives, I don't get why you would do that). It would pretty much turn into a buff each life that expires when you die though. Everyone would start with it on, because why not?
    4 Some account based support, not necessarily the ones you suggest though. I like getting rid of BTC and account raid count. I wouldn't blanket account past lives though, maybe just racial or just epic or reaper exp.
    Last edited by Cantor; 03-15-2020 at 10:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vegabond1969 View Post
    I just had three of my friends download the game tonight
    I can get every friend I have to download the game and run through korthos. Unless I'm going to stick around to power-level them all the way to 30, they're going to hit a serious grind-wall around lvl 10 and uninstall for greener pastures.


    Quote Originally Posted by vegabond1969 View Post
    It's now a weekly thing planned out for those characters
    Sounds great. A few hours once a week, you guys should be raiding in, oh, six years or so. I'll start reserving slots in the LFM.
    Last edited by smokejumper89; 03-15-2020 at 08:35 PM.

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