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Thread: Tactics DCs

  1. #1
    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    Default Tactics DCs

    "The target then takes a Strength or Dexterity save (whichever is higher) against a DC of 10 + Strength modifier + related Enhancements + related item bonuses. Should the target fail its check, the target is tripped."

    Why don't the dcs increase with level progression as well?

    Trip and shatter, at least, should have a progression more parallel to a caster's spell dcs.
    It's silly that trip loses its viability in the mid range quests and beyond.
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell or mail to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    "The target then takes a Strength or Dexterity save (whichever is higher) against a DC of 10 + Strength modifier + related Enhancements + related item bonuses. Should the target fail its check, the target is tripped."

    Why don't the dcs increase with level progression as well?

    Trip and shatter, at least, should have a progression more parallel to a caster's spell dcs.
    It's silly that trip loses its viability in the mid range quests and beyond.
    I'm not sure where you get the idea that trip loses it's viability? I use trip effectively on legendary reaper quests. Strength is one of the easiest stats to get high (harder for pallies now though) and it isn't uncommon to have a DC in the 110-120+ range.

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    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korgzz_bloodaxe View Post
    I'm not sure where you get the idea that trip loses it's viability? I use trip effectively on legendary reaper quests. Strength is one of the easiest stats to get high (harder for pallies now though) and it isn't uncommon to have a DC in the 110-120+ range.
    Thanks.
    I'll reevaluate. But, for me, trip always lost the race as I progressed so I would just drop it as I went up in levels, in favor of another action.
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell or mail to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

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    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    Thanks.
    I'll reevaluate. But, for me, trip always lost the race as I progressed so I would just drop it as I went up in levels, in favor of another action.
    Were you gearing for it? I kinda assumed it was free until it wasn't for a long time, but adding gear is pretty crazy.

    At cap, it's pretty reasonable to get huge bonuses from items; ML26 Many-Hooked Greaves alone provide +31 to Trip. It's not terribly hard to get mid-20's of Combat Mastery from gear either, in case you're looking for >1 Tactics effect. LD also has a T1 (easy twist) for +6 Tactics DC's, which is worth it if your Tactics are partially effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

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    Community Member Kutalp's Avatar
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    Facts and reasoning:

    All DC based actions should have been character based + highest ability stat multiplier based + any related checks over secondary stats. ( Even pure strength cant compete self respect/esteem, technique, experience, health conditions. So all ability stats should have a place at calculations even though a Single stat would have greater values at that specific DC check but should not dominate the check a hundred percent)

    What else ? Because multiclassing was the real deal with having fun once. Which meant power to moe than a single ability stat.

    Counter arguement: But nowadays class and character level ,only matters, for a couple of character builds only.

    +W and +critical threat and % critical values and no reload enhacements, feats (and the similar) does not even require any DC check.
    Last edited by Kutalp; 02-25-2020 at 09:28 AM.

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    Community Member Jerevth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpartanKiller13 View Post
    Were you gearing for it? I kinda assumed it was free until it wasn't for a long time, but adding gear is pretty crazy.

    At cap, it's pretty reasonable to get huge bonuses from items; ML26 Many-Hooked Greaves alone provide +31 to Trip. It's not terribly hard to get mid-20's of Combat Mastery from gear either, in case you're looking for >1 Tactics effect. LD also has a T1 (easy twist) for +6 Tactics DC's, which is worth it if your Tactics are partially effective.

    Running wisdom to hit and damage with a FVS base. LD wis the epic I'll take I believe- need to see what I'm going to ETR though,. I want to make him a hugely effective melee but running wisdom doesn't lend itself to tactics DCs. I won't begrudge the true melee classes their DC bonuses though. They need to be the best in tactics and combat.

    Gearing IS tight though, even though I only focused on Spell DC for Crowd control spells.

    I'll look at my barb on HC when I get back to the homesite this weekend.

    My overall thought process for this was not "what would help ME," rather, "why don't the real fighters have it work this way?"
    Sometimes I'm too clever for my own good. Bear in mind I'm probably trying to be humorous. Like dodge, it's hit or miss.// Looking for a guild on Orien? Send a tell or mail to Magnifique to join the "Fidelic Brotherhood".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    "The target then takes a Strength or Dexterity save (whichever is higher) against a DC of 10 + Strength modifier + related Enhancements + related item bonuses. Should the target fail its check, the target is tripped."

    Why don't the dcs increase with level progression as well?

    Trip and shatter, at least, should have a progression more parallel to a caster's spell dcs.
    It's silly that trip loses its viability in the mid range quests and beyond.
    It's more of a gear thing as you can get monster bonus's from gear. Also mid to high level Fighter gets a ton of +DC to tactics feats. Also you can't expect to abuse something like Assimar + Falconry and have maximum power handed to you on a plate. There should be a reason to have different stats and not "Wisdom for everything".

    For example

    https://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Legend...ter's_Sash

    Gives +22 DC to Trip and Stun (not shatter unfortunately). That belt is extremely compatible with most melee builds that would make use of Strength or Dex as a primary stat. Then there is a cloak, boots and necklace that provide insightful combat mastery and you can CC a +6 to insightful combat mastery on a few slots. Honestly the only tactics feat that's really annoying to gear for is Sunder (Shatter), not because there aren't items but because those items conflict with primary DPS slots for Strength and Dex based DPS builds, basically the hands or wrists. There is one head item that could be made to work for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    "The target then takes a Strength or Dexterity save (whichever is higher) against a DC of 10 + Strength modifier + related Enhancements + related item bonuses. Should the target fail its check, the target is tripped."

    Why don't the dcs increase with level progression as well?

    Trip and shatter, at least, should have a progression more parallel to a caster's spell dcs.
    It's silly that trip loses its viability in the mid range quests and beyond.
    Trip & Stun DCs are free until they aren't, at low levels you can get away with just your base STR score and maybe an item and have workable dcs, once you get into epics you need to devote additional resources pumping up STR and tactics DCs, if you're not STR based (Falconry Monk) you'll have a harder time and will need to devote additional build resources & Gear slots into maintaining DCs, especially once you climb into higher epics and or push up the reaper skulls.

  9. #9
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerevth View Post
    Running wisdom to hit and damage with a FVS base. LD wis the epic I'll take I believe- need to see what I'm going to ETR though,. I want to make him a hugely effective melee but running wisdom doesn't lend itself to tactics DCs. I won't begrudge the true melee classes their DC bonuses though. They need to be the best in tactics and combat.
    Divine Will should get you a solid DC boost? Probably won't work for Str-based DC's like Stunning Blow, but you should pretty reasonably be able to get a solid Dire Charge DC.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  10. #10
    Community Member krimsonrane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by korgzz_bloodaxe View Post
    I'm not sure where you get the idea that trip loses it's viability? I use trip effectively on legendary reaper quests. Strength is one of the easiest stats to get high (harder for pallies now though) and it isn't uncommon to have a DC in the 110-120+ range.
    Lies. I've been playing a dozen years and never been able to get 120 anything.
    Sometimes I pull one out just to watch it die over and over. That's how much I hate hires.

  11. #11
    Community Member SpartanKiller13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krimsonrane View Post
    Lies. I've been playing a dozen years and never been able to get 120 anything.
    I currently have 120 DC on my Dire Charge on a pure Wizard EK, using Int & KtA (and I dropped a bunch of Int for more MP). I had ~130 back when I was running as a PM (and neither had Tactics twist or PL's). Had 122 Necro on that PM life as well

    Maybe you should consider looking up a guide or two? After a dozen years you ought to be doing better than me lol, I've only been around for half that and I'm pretty casual.
    -Khysiria of Cannith
    Quote Originally Posted by zehnvhex View Post
    Warlock is basically a ghetto Shiradi Sorc. You gives up some of the damage and self sustain for the ability to just hold down left click and yolo blast your way to victory.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynnabel View Post
    It's DDO. There are probably 6 different types of Evil damage.

  12. #12
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    If you're going the wisdom route then you might want to take deadly instinct from the falconry tree if you can afford it - half of your wisdom modifier to both damage (insight so wont stack with insight items but will likely be good bit higher than items provide) and to tactics DC, 2 minutes a charge, 5 charges but can have a chance to regain charges with bird attacks.

    Then there's +3 to tactics from 3 x fighter lives. Couple of filigrees for sentient weapons that give +1 to trip DCs. +2 to tactics from epic destiny feat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlavoredSoul View Post
    Trip & Stun DCs are free until they aren't, at low levels you can get away with just your base STR score and maybe an item and have workable dcs, once you get into epics you need to devote additional resources pumping up STR and tactics DCs, if you're not STR based (Falconry Monk) you'll have a harder time and will need to devote additional build resources & Gear slots into maintaining DCs, especially once you climb into higher epics and or push up the reaper skulls.
    Running a Str barb rogue with 3 fighter PLs and +6 from enhancement trees and trip rarely works after low heroics. Vertigo and combat mastery items are few in heroics, whether gear or relevant weapons. Looks like it it is well supported at cap but not in heroics, especially when compared to Stunning, which has a ton of items in many slots.

  14. #14
    Community Member SerPounce's Avatar
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    Maybe they fixed it, but for a long time trip was a little wonky. Sometimes it didn't work even when you had great DCs. I had something like a 125 trip DC for thunder-shock weapons on my arty and there were some mobs it just didn't work on regardless. And this was like 2-3 years ago when that was a stellar DC.

    I was hoping to give it a whirl again now that trip works with strikethrough.
    Sabbath - Sarlona

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