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  1. #1
    Community Member kelryonlor's Avatar
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    Default Thinking of quitting for good

    Ive been playing this game since day 1. Took a little break here and there and im just coming back from a break. Got my son into the game and we are saving Eberon as best we can. BUT...

    1) why buy a cleric hireling if they dont heal ? In 4 different quest today i died while my cleric just sat there spamming nimbus of light and never once tried to heal. NOT ONE TIME. This is utter bs. I just died 2 minutes ago and i immeditely came here. I am sick of this. Why have hirelings if they dont do their jobs ?

    2) I see the ignorant kobolds can still jump up walls and hang in mid air lobbing stupid amounts of damage to you while you have to jump and attack and hope you hit something.

    3)Dont get me started on those kobold shamans that can one hit constantly with their MASSIVELY over powered lightning attack.

    4) Speaking of kobold shamans. Or any caster in my in the game : Why do they NOT have to make a concentration check ? You can trip them, you can grease them, you can hold them. Doesnt matter. if they are in the process of a spell even if they dont finish it , it will cast anyways. So let me get this straight, in theory, a lvl 1 kobold warrior could break the concentration of any high level caster. But yet a lvl 20 barbarian can NEVER break the concentration of a lvl 1 kobold shaman ?? How does that make any sense.

    5) Depths of water fighting. How is it my warforge is swimming in deep water not able to attack but yet a kobold which is half my size is standing in the exact same spot attacking me ? Makes no sense at all .

    Please fix this stuff. Especially the hirelings. There simply isnt enough people on anymore to rely on having a full party all the time like in the good old days. I really would hate to have to find another game.
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelryonlor View Post
    Ive been playing this game since day 1. Took a little break here and there and im just coming back from a break. Got my son into the game and we are saving Eberon as best we can. BUT...

    1) why buy a cleric hireling if they dont heal ? In 4 different quest today i died while my cleric just sat there spamming nimbus of light and never once tried to heal. NOT ONE TIME. This is utter bs. I just died 2 minutes ago and i immeditely came here. I am sick of this. Why have hirelings if they dont do their jobs ?

    2) I see the ignorant kobolds can still jump up walls and hang in mid air lobbing stupid amounts of damage to you while you have to jump and attack and hope you hit something.

    3)Dont get me started on those kobold shamans that can one hit constantly with their MASSIVELY over powered lightning attack.

    4) Speaking of kobold shamans. Or any caster in my in the game : Why do they NOT have to make a concentration check ? You can trip them, you can grease them, you can hold them. Doesnt matter. if they are in the process of a spell even if they dont finish it , it will cast anyways. So let me get this straight, in theory, a lvl 1 kobold warrior could break the concentration of any high level caster. But yet a lvl 20 barbarian can NEVER break the concentration of a lvl 1 kobold shaman ?? How does that make any sense.

    5) Depths of water fighting. How is it my warforge is swimming in deep water not able to attack but yet a kobold which is half my size is standing in the exact same spot attacking me ? Makes no sense at all .

    Please fix this stuff. Especially the hirelings. There simply isnt enough people on anymore to rely on having a full party all the time like in the good old days. I really would hate to have to find another game.
    1) Hireling AI is borked. It always was. They do just fine if you take them for a stroll on Normal or Hard, and might even handle themselves at those difficulties, but anything higher, and they just start showing that higher stats mean nothing compared to actual game knowledge, tactical movement and stacking defenses. When I do use hirelings, I park them somewhere safe and heal outside of battle, doing so while in combat has never been reliable in the ten years I've been playing.

    2) Kobolds ignoring movement restrictions on walls has been a pet peeve of mine for a long while. It stopped being funny after the 40th time one ran out of melee range.

    3) Kobold shamans are overpowered. You need to bring electricity resistance to even the fight, and even then, they're a major threat. They're also on the list of things being checked for being too strong at lower levels, so there's hope coming that way.

    4) You can trip/immobilize casters and stop their spells. Anything else given that casters don't really dodge and weave like human-controlled casters to and it might break balance a bit. Human-controlled casters can move around while casting, AI-controlled casters can't fail to cast unless crowd controlled.

    5) Hit detection, plus the fact there's no underwater fighting or swimming animation for those. If that kobold hit the water deep enough, it would despawn instead of trying to swim. In some places, that's what happens. In specific quests, you have to work around that. I don't know if you could or should signal the fact they weren't automatically respawning instead of hitting you in a place where players obviously cannot fight.

  3. #3
    Community Member vegabond1969's Avatar
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    I rarely get a cleric hireling for heals. With the exception of Flower, Natasha(?), and Jatrina most are horrible. It does help putting them on swords instead of shields. I've been using Bards more here lately and they seem to work fine.
    The lightning from the kobolds is terrible, but I usually get resist energy as soon as I can on the classes I play. It actually helps keep me from getting one shot by the kobolds long enough to drop a couple of heal pots and move on. As far as the water goes, I get through it and out as quick as I can. Most of my characters are rangers, wizards, artys, rogues,or pallys and I make sure to stock up on heal pots just in case I get a borked hireling. You know, playing like we did before the hirelings were even in game.

  4. #4
    Community Member Drecas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelryonlor View Post
    Ive been playing this game since day 1. Took a little break here and there and im just coming back from a break. Got my son into the game and we are saving Eberon as best we can. BUT...

    1) why buy a cleric hireling if they dont heal ? In 4 different quest today i died while my cleric just sat there spamming nimbus of light and never once tried to heal. NOT ONE TIME. This is utter bs. I just died 2 minutes ago and i immeditely came here. I am sick of this. Why have hirelings if they dont do their jobs ?
    I take intimidate on just about every character I make and use it to hold aggro, while my hireling stands at a distance on passive, and then I manually instruct it to heal when I need to, I've got it set up as CTRL + R for easy and quick access. After combat, if I've suffered any status damage, I put the hireling in an active stance and let it cast restoration, cure disease or whatever and then set it back on passive.

  5. #5
    Community Member Alrik_Fassbauer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelryonlor View Post
    Ive been playing this game since day 1. Took a little break here and there and im just coming back from a break. Got my son into the game and we are saving Eberon as best we can. BUT...

    1) why buy a cleric hireling if they dont heal ? In 4 different quest today i died while my cleric just sat there spamming nimbus of light and never once tried to heal. NOT ONE TIME. This is utter bs. I just died 2 minutes ago and i immeditely came here. I am sick of this. Why have hirelings if they dont do their jobs ?

    2) I see the ignorant kobolds can still jump up walls and hang in mid air lobbing stupid amounts of damage to you while you have to jump and attack and hope you hit something.

    3)Dont get me started on those kobold shamans that can one hit constantly with their MASSIVELY over powered lightning attack.

    4) Speaking of kobold shamans. Or any caster in my in the game : Why do they NOT have to make a concentration check ? You can trip them, you can grease them, you can hold them. Doesnt matter. if they are in the process of a spell even if they dont finish it , it will cast anyways. So let me get this straight, in theory, a lvl 1 kobold warrior could break the concentration of any high level caster. But yet a lvl 20 barbarian can NEVER break the concentration of a lvl 1 kobold shaman ?? How does that make any sense.

    5) Depths of water fighting. How is it my warforge is swimming in deep water not able to attack but yet a kobold which is half my size is standing in the exact same spot attacking me ? Makes no sense at all .

    Please fix this stuff. Especially the hirelings. There simply isnt enough people on anymore to rely on having a full party all the time like in the good old days. I really would hate to have to find another game.
    Sounds as if you hadn't been playing the lowest levels in DECADES.

    I have these problems EVERY DAY because I'm almost exclusively playing the lowest levels theye days (mostly until level 8 or so).

    I just cannot understand how someone is thinking of quitting because of problems I face every day. Sounds kinda elitist to me.
    "You are a Tiefling. And a Cleric, with the Domain of the Sun. Doesn't that contradict each other ?" "No, all my friends are playing evil. I found that so boring that I decided to be on the good side. And, besides, Sun and Fire, where is the difference, really ?"

  6. #6
    Community Member kelavas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alrik_Fassbauer View Post
    Sounds as if you hadn't been playing the lowest levels in DECADES.

    I have these problems EVERY DAY because I'm almost exclusively playing the lowest levels theye days (mostly until level 8 or so).

    I just cannot understand how someone is thinking of quitting because of problems I face every day. Sounds kinda elitist to me.
    I'm in the same boat as him. There are too many things that cause frustration, especially at lower levels. Like he stated above, why bother having AI's available if they are borked. Why let CR2 Shaman's have Lightning Bolt? I know this is getting looked at, but this is ridiculous. Same with Famine Reapers in a level 2(4) quest having Frost Lance, but that's technically going over the topic. All the issues listed except #5 are an issue that should be described. I guess #4 is reasonable in a sense that they are just AI and it's easily counterable. But that's besides the point. I'm with the OP on everything but #5, because that's just a feature .

    Thanks n good luck!
    Inquisitives weren't nerfed, change my mind.
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  7. #7

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    Kobold say Kobold approve of this thread
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  8. #8
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    Take a number.

    It seems not many are happy with the direction the devs have been going lately.

    Of course they have a few rabid pets that will shout down anyone that speaks out against them. I made a thread yesterday that my EDs were reset - I believed from a TR issue, turns out it's a known issue with feat swapping - and there were multiple people telling me that even if it's not the way it has worked in game for a decade, that it's the way it SHOULD work. The level of victim blaming to save the devs face is appalling.

    As for hirelings, best advice I can give you is to either:
    A) pretend they don't exist and heal yourself.
    B) set them to the "only do what I tell you to" mode. Park them. Call them to you and command them to heal you as necessary. Repeat.

    Anything other than this, and you're rolling the dice.

  9. #9
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    I rarely use hires any longer unless I park them at the entrance for a raise dead. For healing with classes that have no self heal I use cure serious potions for combat healing, and wands for lower cost after combat healing.

  10. #10
    Community Member Buddha5440's Avatar
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    I agree with all the OP's concerns except for the one about the shamans' lightning bolts. At low levels , a lightning bolt should be able to kill you. You are still a wet behind the ears adventurer at that point. The way around that is were the problem comes in...Grouping... except nobody seem to want to do that much anymore except for the new raids/epic content.

    The other concerns definitely need to be addressed as they have been issues from the beginning.
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  11. #11
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    Well, if you are not having fun you should find something else to do. That goes for all of us in everything we do for leisure and is not meant in a hostile way.

    As for hirelings - sure, it would be nice if those worked slightly better. Have you considered other options for healing though - including manually using the hireling to heal or playing a build that can selfheal?

    As for kobolds and npc mobs overall. The game has to offer some challenge - and letting the monsters cheat a little is part of that. So are traps, huge packs of monsters etc, etc. To be honest I think you should simply consider that part of the fun and find ways to work around it.
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  12. #12
    Community Member Ausdoerrt's Avatar
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    OP, not sure if you know, but you can modify hireling AI by right-clicking on the hireling bar. If you want a healbot, disable everything but the healing spells. Also prepare to micromanage the hires if you rely on them so much.

    As for kobold shamans - they are squishy, take them out first. Normally, they should be dead before they can cast anything. Also, Lightning Bolt is a "line AoE" spell that can be dodged. Finally, kobold shamans are most often seen in sewer-themed quests, where breaking the line of sight (and preventing them from casting) works really well.

    P.S. It's frustrating to take time to solo higher difficulties and get offed like that. Worse yet if champions / reapers are involved, in an otherwise timid encounter. Best I can advise is take a deep breath and maybe take a break until you're calm enough to try again. If all fails - drop the difficulty or throw up an LFM; there are more people running heroics these days that one would think, most just don't bother or are too shy to post an LFM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Buddha5440 View Post
    I agree with all the OP's concerns except for the one about the shamans' lightning bolts. At low levels , a lightning bolt should be able to kill you. You are still a wet behind the ears adventurer at that point. The way around that is were the problem comes in...Grouping... except nobody seem to want to do that much anymore except for the new raids/epic content.
    That's not really true - I regularly see heroic-level groups running E/R1 for faster / easier leveling. Especially in lowbie areas like Harbor / Market / Houses. It's often hard to hit just the right narrow level range, though. I've also had some success posting my own.
    Last edited by Ausdoerrt; 02-24-2020 at 09:08 AM.
    "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. ... People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true." Terry Goodkind

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausdoerrt View Post
    OP, not sure if you know, but you can modify hireling AI by right-clicking on the hireling bar. If you want a healbot, disable everything but the healing spells. Also prepare to micromanage the hires if you rely on them so much.
    Nibba ****, this again
    The devs breaking hecks don't constitute us having to use workarounds! They were working fine on release
    and all of sudden weren't anymore???

    This with the fact that there are casuals out there that can't stand grouping with people and spend massive bucks just on hirelings
    for a full party seems all too convenient!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelryonlor View Post
    Ive been playing this game since day 1. Took a little break here and there and im just coming back from a break. Got my son into the game and we are saving Eberon as best we can. BUT...

    1) why buy a cleric hireling if they dont heal ? In 4 different quest today i died while my cleric just sat there spamming nimbus of light and never once tried to heal. NOT ONE TIME. This is utter bs. I just died 2 minutes ago and i immeditely came here. I am sick of this. Why have hirelings if they dont do their jobs ?

    2) I see the ignorant kobolds can still jump up walls and hang in mid air lobbing stupid amounts of damage to you while you have to jump and attack and hope you hit something.

    3)Dont get me started on those kobold shamans that can one hit constantly with their MASSIVELY over powered lightning attack.

    4) Speaking of kobold shamans. Or any caster in my in the game : Why do they NOT have to make a concentration check ? You can trip them, you can grease them, you can hold them. Doesnt matter. if they are in the process of a spell even if they dont finish it , it will cast anyways. So let me get this straight, in theory, a lvl 1 kobold warrior could break the concentration of any high level caster. But yet a lvl 20 barbarian can NEVER break the concentration of a lvl 1 kobold shaman ?? How does that make any sense.

    5) Depths of water fighting. How is it my warforge is swimming in deep water not able to attack but yet a kobold which is half my size is standing in the exact same spot attacking me ? Makes no sense at all .

    Please fix this stuff. Especially the hirelings. There simply isnt enough people on anymore to rely on having a full party all the time like in the good old days. I really would hate to have to find another game.
    1. The level 1 barb hire will take the attention of all the mobs levels 1-3 through elite, and you can pick up additional barbs/fighter hire after that up until 9-10. Using the Clr/Fvs hires at low level is the first mistake, dragging them into battle instead of parking them as insurance policy was second. Use the Barb/Ftr hires (their AC makes them pretty untouchable for low level mobs), set them on aggressive and let them take the Kobold heat. Heal yourself via pots/wands and frankly, you won't do much of even that with aggro on a hire that can take it. Or, if doing reaper and your build absolutely requires between encounter healing, you park the hire back from the encounter, don't drag them into it. Then run back to them for a heal and return to attack.

    2. You don't need to jump attack them. Just attack, they don't jump past the hitbox.

    3. Electric resist and absorb. Both properties drops on all kinds of gear at low levels. Also using right hire means you aren't the target anyhow.

    4. Maybe they quickened the spell? You know, the same way the player does when they dump the concentration stat (because it's totally useless).

    5. Nothing can attack while swimming, and mobs rubber band back when they swim. That said, the swimming transition line isn't based on the height of the mob/toon, it's a invisible line after which point everything swims (why short mobs will go complete underwater before rubber banding).

    None of these solutions are new news.

    This is in addition to always going after casters first, not letting them hop around and cast. Whatever combat clickies, burst effects, you dump on casters who have hardly any hp anyhow. Then you mop up the melee and throwers. Or, if reaper/champ caster is present, you back up and break line of sight, mop up the melee and reaper, then charge the caster (not in a straight line) and finish them.
    Last edited by myliftkk_v2; 02-24-2020 at 10:12 AM.

  15. #15
    The Hatchery ferrite's Avatar
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    All good points here.

    I came back as well after a rather long hiatus, and was surprised at how bizarre the monster AI and movement has become since the Turbine days.

    Like, kobolds now have the know-how to climb up 3 flights of boxes to get you. Skeletons and zombies, supposed to be mindless in the 3.5 ruleset, now have the INT to do the same. I think I saw an ooze climb up something at some point in a quest, it was a bit jarring considering they don't have appendages.

    I understand this was supposed to nerf rangers and casters from taking a defensive position using objects and terrain, but then it begs the question.. if that's the case then why put any objects in quests at all? Why not just have a flat, level field with doors locking behind you to trap you in an instance where you must fight until you either win or die? Oh wait I see that most quests do this exact thing now. I wonder was this change supposed to be a clever answer to make the game more challenging? Bah.

    A break is good just don't take too long or you'll get way behind like I am in various things (I just got my first sentient jewel)

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ferrite View Post
    All good points here.

    I came back as well after a rather long hiatus, and was surprised at how bizarre the monster AI and movement has become since the Turbine days.

    Like, kobolds now have the know-how to climb up 3 flights of boxes to get you. Skeletons and zombies, supposed to be mindless in the 3.5 ruleset, now have the INT to do the same. I think I saw an ooze climb up something at some point in a quest, it was a bit jarring considering they don't have appendages.

    I understand this was supposed to nerf rangers and casters from taking a defensive position using objects and terrain, but then it begs the question.. if that's the case then why put any objects in quests at all? Why not just have a flat, level field with doors locking behind you to trap you in an instance where you must fight until you either win or die? Oh wait I see that most quests do this exact thing now. I wonder was this change supposed to be a clever answer to make the game more challenging? Bah.

    A break is good just don't take too long or you'll get way behind like I am in various things (I just got my first sentient jewel)
    Kobs have been able to climb contiguous surfaces the player can since years. If you want to perch, you have to find a non-walking-climbable spot.

  17. #17
    Community Member AlmGhandi's Avatar
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    Sorry to lose you.

    Can I have your stuff? I have characters on all servers.
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  18. #18
    Community Member count_spicoli's Avatar
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    Your first sentence is ive been playing since day 1 and then go on to complain about stuff that happens in waterworks which has been around since day 1. This post is a little embarrissing. If waterworks is giving you problems hate to see what a quest like black and blue is gonna do to you.

    And hirelings have always been ****. If your relying on them as your only way of compelting quests you got big trouble.
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  19. #19
    Bwest Fwiends Memnir's Avatar
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    My recommendation would be to go on an open-ended, extended hiatus. Don't do anything rash like give away gear, or delete characters. Just, don't play for a good long time. If the urge to return overbalances the above concerns - great. Come back and check on the status of the game. You may find it's either changed for the better - or the fun found in playing once again is greater than the issues you have with it.

    I took a break about a year ago, and really wasn't sure if I would play again. Ended up being about six months off, but it was a really good decision.
    “Too much of anything is bad, but too much good whiskey is barely enough.” ~ Mark Twain

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  20. #20
    Community Member Jomee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xgya View Post
    1) Hireling AI is borked. It always was. They do just fine if you take them for a stroll on Normal or Hard, and might even handle themselves at those difficulties, but anything higher, and they just start showing that higher stats mean nothing compared to actual game knowledge, tactical movement and stacking defenses. When I do use hirelings, I park them somewhere safe and heal outside of battle, doing so while in combat has never been reliable in the ten years I've been playing.
    I suspect one of the reasons why they're borked is that there's an internal timer that blocks them from casting a heal spell immediately when it detects that a player needs one and no I don't mean the spell casting cool down. I've noticed my hireling twitching like a spastic rooster as soon as it detects that I the first heal. Now, most of the hirelings are ruined. The worst thing they did is change andaro to cast mass heal when someone is only down 50hp. He doesn't cast heal just keeps mass healing, losing concentration checks till he's dead. If they took away his mass heal, then he would be the best cleric hireling.

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