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  1. #1
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    Default Spring attack is just...silly

    Not sure how spring attack works for other builds, but on my monk, its not very good. First of all, you do this flying roundhouse kick that launches you forward and 90% of the time i fly past the mob completely missing them. You have to judge the distance, and then hope it hits. Anyway, i only take this for WWA...the clicky is not useful in my opinion. Why doesnt it just launch you to the next mob automatically?

    Oh well, what are your thoughts?
    Nico

  2. #2
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    You're using it wrong.

    Do what ranged have been doing. Line them up. Spring attack all the way through. Better than WWA.

    Good if you have high crit threat range and on crit abilities; my Monks all use Perfect Pinnacle in Water stance and other on Vorpal effects. My former VKF Bard especially was vicious with Spring Attack; she had On Crit Daze, 5% Daze (from Helm), On Crit Neg Level Chance and slotted in on Vorpal Neg Level. You could have multiple of them effectively Dazing and Draining them if done in succession.

    If you're trying to use it to judge where it lands like Dire Charge on a specific target, it works different to that (you actually attack anything along the path you go along) and you just need to alter the way you use it.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    You're using it wrong.

    Do what ranged have been doing. Line them up. Spring attack all the way through. Better than WWA.

    Good if you have high crit threat range and on crit abilities; my Monks all use Perfect Pinnacle in Water stance and other on Vorpal effects. My former VKF Bard especially was vicious with Spring Attack; she had On Crit Daze, 5% Daze (from Helm), On Crit Neg Level Chance and slotted in on Vorpal Neg Level. You could have multiple of them effectively Dazing and Draining them if done in succession.

    If you're trying to use it to judge where it lands like Dire Charge on a specific target, it works different to that (you actually attack anything along the path you go along) and you just need to alter the way you use it.

    J1NG
    Haha! Well i guess i am! Ill have to try it when mobs are lined up then. My guess is this is better for levels under 29 for various reasons. Gonna try when i get home today. Thanks Jing!

    Nico

  4. #4
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    What? It's not dash to target??

    That's idiotic. That defeats the whole purpose of being able to get melee right into melee range so they aren't just chasing ranged dps. If you have to launch then turn around and run back to melee range anyway then it's not really doing much good.

    The devs complained that IPS was systemically problematic, then they go and give melee their own version of IPS :P. Melee didn't need a line AOE.

    Should be a dash to target+360 aoe on impact.

  5. #5
    Chaotic Evil Mindos's Avatar
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    I do run past if I'm too close, but I do hit them aoe ish as I fly by it seems


  6. #6
    Community Member Spl1tz's Avatar
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    Nope, good job on this one SSG.
    I love it.
    Currently playing a monk on HC and it gets me to the casters in the back
    of a group of mobs a lot faster before they cast their spells, damage everything in the path as well!

    I've forgotten how fun monks are. Might TR into one on live
    Jaigle- Jaizle - Zhentas - Envie - EE solo album - Youtube Channel
    ex Devourer player

  7. #7
    Community Member LeoLionxxx's Avatar
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    Oh, so Spring attack works more like snow-slide, where it moves you forward and hits everything in your path? I guess I've been using it wrong for the past few weeks then :P
    That's not lag, it's just DDO trying to become turn-based again.

    Feature wishlist: colour-coded HP bars; red/blue teams in raids; rez-timer in party menu; equip-able halflings

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickodeamous View Post
    Not sure how spring attack works for other builds, but on my monk, its not very good. First of all, you do this flying roundhouse kick that launches you forward and 90% of the time i fly past the mob completely missing them. You have to judge the distance, and then hope it hits. Anyway, i only take this for WWA...the clicky is not useful in my opinion. Why doesnt it just launch you to the next mob automatically?

    Oh well, what are your thoughts?
    Nico
    Personally I really like that it doesn't auto-target, the number of times dire charge took me places I didn't want to go is far too often when I was using it as a gap closer. It hits all targets you move through, from start to finish, no +W added as far as I can tell, not sure if it double strikes either. It's really nice for three things, getting you across a room(same as abundant step) or getting through mobs to the ones you actually want to hit, and finally getting you out of a sticky situation.

    Personally, I really like how it functions. It does have a noticeably long CD that doesn't really mesh that well with the CDs with other melee active attacks. However, if it were spam-able I think it would actually be better for casters, bordering on must have as a defense mechanic, and I would also foresee a comeback of Tree builds like you wouldn't believe.

  9. #9
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    The animation is awesome (unarmed), and it's a step in the right direction with more active tactical abilities, but the actual use seems rather niche.

    Besides the CD, my main concern is that the actual dash is quite slow and always goes a fixed distance, which considering that it only hits once (might offhand proc?) for piddly damage makes it a DPS loss unless mobs actually are at max range. The only thing it's really good at is getting out of Icestorm and other AoE slows. Can we speed it up say 30%, or add some damage to it?

    My second concern is that it costs three feats, and all of them, including Whirlwind on weapon builds is pretty bad. Monks get Abundant step at 12 anyway, so it's currently basically a monk crutch for L1-12. If the other tactical feats weren't so bad I wouldn't see any pure non-monk picking this. You basically have to MC fighter or monk to have the feats anyway.


    Tangent: melee builds really need a tactical CC move that works on reapers already at a low level. I feel making trip/stun feats not work on reapers was a very bad design choice for melee gameplay. If you can't use them on reapers, tactics are useless. You basically need some way to CC or burst down reapers and champions, and pure melee builds really struggle with both of these compared to hybrid melee.
    Last edited by LurkingVeteran; 02-23-2020 at 06:57 PM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LurkingVeteran View Post
    The animation is awesome (unarmed), and it's a step in the right direction with more active tactical abilities, but the actual use seems rather niche.

    Besides the CD, my main concern is that the actual dash is quite slow and always goes a fixed distance, Can we speed it up say 30%
    Try using it with qstaff, seems at least 30% faster to me, I think the unarmed animation is doing some odd stuff with it.

  11. #11
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kotharsjach View Post
    Try using it with qstaff, seems at least 30% faster to me, I think the unarmed animation is doing some odd stuff with it.
    It only "looks" slow.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  12. #12
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    I tried it again and it's actually faster than I initially thought. I guess it can stay the way it is in terms of mechanics, but question the feat requirements and viability for non-monks/fighter multiclasses.

    For monks, in terms of damage, it's nowhere near WW because that hits with two basic attacks though, while this hits once. In epics with 100% DS and off-hand the difference isn't as great I guess, but to line mobs up just to run this through them seems like a waste of time. But that's not what it's for anyway.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    It only "looks" slow.

    J1NG
    I actually tried testing SA in both distance and time with both handwraps and q-staff. I don't have a stop watch, so I don't think my results were very accurate, in distance (on floor tiles) I actually got a measurable difference, it was consistent but very small (less than 5%). Also well timed animation break seemed to skew things, as I was trying to see exactly how long the spring attack sequence took before I could use a different ability.

    Nevertheless, the point - perception can differ from reality, is well made, and I was trying to get a feel on other's perception on if there is a tangible difference between the different animations for spring attack.

  14. #14
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    I meant it "looks" slow in animation of the entire sequence, and for a lot of it, it looks like it shouldn't be doing any attacks or damage as your attack (the kick) isn't even in position yet. However, it's actually identical in terms of triggering and seeing effects/attacks fire off. So you can look like you're still facing away from targets you've used Spring Attack on, but you're actually still hitting them. That's what I meant in it being only "looking" slow.

    I agree that you don't normally "line them up" so to speak. But that's just to highlight the difference between WWA and Spring Attack when you optimise them for use; WWA, even with the old cap of 32-36 targets, you could NEVER hit that many and believe me I've tried many times. However, Spring Attack, as it is based off ot Snow-Slide, will allow you to attack all targets that have been lined up for an incredible amount of attacks, that far exceed what you could possibly do even with WWA. Currently, it's the only consistent way for me to trigger Lag tests in the Vale on the 64bit client, so that's pretty impressive given that the last major spot of noticable client lag was over on Yester Hill (which is all but eliminated on the 64 bit client). But back to the point, they have different uses, but Spring Attack also in its current incarnation, is much more versatile than if it was based off of Dire Charge. So I hope it is kept this way.

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    I meant it "looks" slow in animation of the entire sequence, and for a lot of it, it looks like it shouldn't be doing any attacks or damage as your attack (the kick) isn't even in position yet.
    J1NG
    Ah, I was referring to the tail end of of wraps and qstaff animation and how 1 completes the animation sequence faster.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1NG View Post
    You're using it wrong.

    Do what ranged have been doing. Line them up. Spring attack all the way through. Better than WWA.

    Good if you have high crit threat range and on crit abilities; my Monks all use Perfect Pinnacle in Water stance and other on Vorpal effects. My former VKF Bard especially was vicious with Spring Attack; she had On Crit Daze, 5% Daze (from Helm), On Crit Neg Level Chance and slotted in on Vorpal Neg Level. You could have multiple of them effectively Dazing and Draining them if done in succession.

    If you're trying to use it to judge where it lands like Dire Charge on a specific target, it works different to that (you actually attack anything along the path you go along) and you just need to alter the way you use it.

    J1NG
    Do you have a gear layout somewhere? I've trying to figure out how to fit a perfect pinnacle into my layout. Was using the heroic one from 10-28 with great success.

  17. #17
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    Spring Attack is wonderful on a Warrior Monk. Khopesh does a lot of drive-by damage. Thinking about specing out of Khopesh and into Bastard Sword to see if Spring Attack plus strike-thru is a thing.

  18. #18
    Community Member Drecas's Avatar
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    It's great, doesn't require targeting a mob despite the description, and you can use it to bypass a lot of ******** in the game.
    Couple it with monk's abundant step (for example) and you can jump *really* far.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drecas View Post
    It's great, doesn't require targeting a mob despite the description, and you can use it to bypass a lot of ******** in the game.
    Couple it with monk's abundant step (for example) and you can jump *really* far.
    Did you just say this heck on purpose?
    Now devs will be like "oooo heeeck, ppl doing dis? gonna have to nerf iiiit"

    Bye bye fun

  20. #20
    Community Member J1NG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chilianna View Post
    Did you just say this heck on purpose?
    Now devs will be like "oooo heeeck, ppl doing dis? gonna have to nerf iiiit"

    Bye bye fun
    Well, it shouldn't be an issue really. Most of the environs now are double boundaried up, meaning there's the normal boundary you can't cross, and then there's another blocking the further outside. So it's not like you can use it to easily escape into the wild anymore.

    As for reaching hard to reach places, it won't help either, since if you can't reach it in one "leap" by nature of how high max jump and leap works and before you fall too far on the z axis to make another leap useful, it wouldn't make a difference other than to make you travel a bit faster on foot/mount. So this shouldn't be a concern for the Devs.

    No, their REAL concern, is that there's occasionally a sneaky Dev who changes something and allows breaks of the invisible fences, allowing players out into the wild. Although they'll never believe me over that as they have this strange idea that I'm out to cause descent amoungst them; they're just interested in all the bugs and exploits I have on tap. *shrugs*

    J1NG
    Thelanis: Yijing (*Completionist* TR 20 Aasimar Scourge Monk Level 20 / Epic Level 10)
    Thelanis: Pocket-Monks: Sightblur, Peashoote, Jigglypath.
    Invisible Fences, unkillable Target Practice Dummy's, Shared Bank's, Pale Lavender Ioun Stones, the dimensional barrier between Eberron and Shavarath, I've broken them all...

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